Josh Green

[mauriesy 6,911]

I don't think he offers any more than players like Garlett, Kent, JKH, Kennedy and vandenBerg.

Culture is not some external thing, it's the sum of the attitude of the team and the coaches. If Green needs a better "culture" to work in and has work issues in a bad team, I'm not sure that will translate into a good attitude in any team.

[Dr evil 1,185]

1 minute ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

I didnt really want to get involved in the argument but what need did Michie fill?

Midfield depth, given mids are the highest % player type on an AFL list the better the depth the better the list in this area, and Michie was one of Caseys best all year. 

he was capable of playing a role at AFL level, though behind several others in the pecking order.

[stuie 7,374]

7 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

I don't think he offers any more than players like Garlett, Kent, JKH, Kennedy and vandenBerg.

Culture is not some external thing, it's the sum of the attitude of the team and the coaches. If Green needs a better "culture" to work in and has work issues in a bad team, I'm not sure that will translate into a good attitude in any team.

Yep, that's my question I guess. Did he not succeed due to his own failings or the failings of the cumulative culture, and if it was the culture aspect, was he a contributor to it.

If any group of supporters understand how much culture and development can impede success and how talent is not enough by itself, it's Melbourne supporters.

 

[stuie 7,374]

15 minutes ago, jeck wartz said:

Midfield depth, given mids are the highest % player type on an AFL list the better the depth the better the list in this area, and Michie was one of Caseys best all year. 

he was capable of playing a role at AFL level, though behind several others in the pecking order.

Yet he was delisted... Weird huh?

 

Edited October 26, 2016 by stuie

[Dr evil 1,185]

Just now, stuie said:

Yet he was delisted... We're huh?

 

we're also a team that won 10 games this year and on the rise, and they've won 3 games and been awarded a priority pick. 

plenty of players in our reserves would have played regular AFL games at the Lions this year, including Viv.

 

[ArtificialWisdom 3,964]

15 minutes ago, jeck wartz said:

Midfield depth, given mids are the highest % player type on an AFL list the better the depth the better the list in this area, and Michie was one of Caseys best all year. 

he was capable of playing a role at AFL level, though behind several others in the pecking order.

So you would delist depth and then not replace it with some other form of depth? the best kind of depth is the one with even the slimist chance of becoming a regular player. Green has (admitedly a couple of years in the past) proven himself more than capable at AFL level and at his best would easily push for a spot. I think he could provide depth as well as Michie ever did. He can play through the midfield has speed which we lack desperatly and he can be a creative forward when he needs to be. He would play at Casey more than not, at least to start. But if Garlett or Kent go down with injuries/form slumps theres no reason why he couldnt be right up there to take their spots in the 22. 

Edited October 26, 2016 by ArtificialWisdom

[stuie 7,374]

4 minutes ago, jeck wartz said:

we're also a team that won 10 games this year and on the rise, and they've won 3 games and been awarded a priority pick. 

plenty of players in our reserves would have played regular AFL games at the Lions this year, including Viv.

 

So you're expecting the Lions to pick up Michie then? Probably Grimes, Terlich, Dawes, King, Newton and Jones as well?

I mean, we're SO good, and they're SO bad, they will want all our players now.

 

[Dr evil 1,185]

1 minute ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

So you would delist depth and then not replace it with some other form of depth? the best kind of depth is the one with even the slimist chance of becoming a regular player. Green has (admitedly a couple of years in the past) proven himself more than capable at AFL level and at his best would easily push for a spot. I think he could provide depth as well as Michie ever did. He can play through the midfield has speed which we lack desperatly and he can be a creative forward when he needs to be. He would play at Casey more than not I would think, at least to start. But if Garlett or Kent go down with injuries/form slumps theres no reason why he couldnt be right up there to take their spots in the 22. 

he'd be behind Stretch, Vince, Hunt, Salem, Melksham, Hibberd, Kent as an outside mid

he'd be behind Garlett, Kent, Petracca, Vanders, Trenners, ANB, and any resting mids in our best 22 as a forward. 

so we'd be recruiting him as speculative depth at best, and to me he'd be a waste of a rookie spot, we could recruit a young guy as a project player and we've had a great record with rookie picks with Harmes and Wagner recent examples of great rookie pickups 

[stuie 7,374]

2 minutes ago, jeck wartz said:

he'd be behind Stretch, Vince, Hunt, Salem, Melksham, Hibberd, Kent as an outside mid

he'd be behind Garlett, Kent, Petracca, Vanders, Trenners, ANB, and any resting mids in our best 22 as a forward. 

so we'd be recruiting him as speculative depth at best, and to me he'd be a waste of a rookie spot, we could recruit a young guy as a project player and we've had a great record with rookie picks with Harmes and Wagner recent examples of great rookie pickups 

And Michie was behind most of the list given " mids are the highest % player type on an AFL list".

 

[Dr evil 1,185]

Just now, stuie said:

So you're expecting the Lions to pick up Michie then? Probably Grimes, Terlich, Dawes, King, Newton and Jones as well?

I mean, we're SO good, and they're SO bad, they will want all our players now.

 

I never said that, pathetic response, deflecting doesn't change the fact you're out of your depth.

the organisation you get de listed from or made redundant by has to come into consideration, the Lions have been nothing short of terrible, and they've had retention issues, if Green isn't good enough for them, it makes you wonder why he'd be good enough for a significantly better team/club. 

i mean unlike you they are in a position to make an informed judgement on his ability as a footballer and a 3 win 60% team in a year they've been awarded a priority pick has judged him as not good enough to be on their list. 

if you get fired by Maccas for performance that surely says more than being fired from a 5 star establishment for performance. as an example.

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, jeck wartz said:

I never said that, pathetic response, deflecting doesn't change the fact you're out of your depth.

the organisation you get de listed from or made redundant by has to come into consideration, the Lions have been nothing short of terrible, and they've had retention issues, if Green isn't good enough for them, it makes you wonder why he'd be good enough for a significantly better team/club. 

i mean unlike you they are in a position to make an informed judgement on his ability as a footballer and a 3 win 60% team in a year they've been awarded a priority pick has judged him as not good enough to be on their list. 

if you get fired by Maccas for performance that surely says more than being fired from a 5 star establishment for performance. as an example.

Garlett.

 

[Deestroy All 14,262]

Everyone start saying maybe we should look at Green, Stuie will start saying we probably shouldn't. 

 

As for me I can't believe Josh Green and Todd Banfield are 2 different people. 

[Dr evil 1,185]

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

And Michie was behind most of the list given " mids are the highest % player type on an AFL list".

 

I'll make this simple for you Stuie

Michie is a midfielder, Green is a small forward. 

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, jeck wartz said:

if you get fired by Maccas for performance that surely says more than being fired from a 5 star establishment for performance. as an example.

Ok, so by your logic, no delisted player has ever, or will ever be picked up by a team higher on the ladder...

Righto then.

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, jeck wartz said:

I'll make this simple for you Stuie

Michie is a midfielder, Green is a small forward. 

Yes, and "mids are the highest % player type on an AFL list". So that means more players were in front of Michie than would be in front of Green.

Using your own logic there.

 

[Dr evil 1,185]

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

Garlett.

 

Garlett had kicked 40 plus goals in multiple seasons, Green has never even gone close, bad comparison.

[Dr evil 1,185]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

Ok, so by your logic, no delisted player has ever, or will ever be picked up by a team higher on the ladder...

Righto then.

Again, pathetic attempt at deflection, i didn't say that. but the % would be extremely low so there would be very few cases of that happening. 

 

1 minute ago, stuie said:

Yes, and "mids are the highest % player type on an AFL list". So that means more players were in front of Michie than would be in front of Green.

Using your own logic there.

 

Yes, but it also means that we require more mids than we do small forwards, we have more than enough small forwards. 

clutching at straws again.

[stuie 7,374]

4 minutes ago, jeck wartz said:

Garlett had kicked 40 plus goals in multiple seasons, Green has never even gone close, bad comparison.

Garlett was all but delisted by a poor team. That's the point.

Not sure if you are conveniently missing the obvious points or you just aren't catching on.

 

[ArtificialWisdom 3,964]

7 minutes ago, jeck wartz said:

he'd be behind Stretch, Vince, Hunt, Salem, Melksham, Hibberd, Kent as an outside mid

he'd be behind Garlett, Kent, Petracca, Vanders, Trenners, ANB, and any resting mids in our best 22 as a forward. 

so we'd be recruiting him as speculative depth at best, and to me he'd be a waste of a rookie spot, we could recruit a young guy as a project player and we've had a great record with rookie picks with Harmes and Wagner recent examples of great rookie pickups 

First line I agree to a point Hibbard, Hunt, Kent all will be playing primarily in roles other than an outside mid you labeled them as, but yes he would be behind them.

The second line yes he would behind the first 3 but after that I would have him easily ahead of the others. Vanders would play a 4th tall kind of role anyway so not in competition but unless his form spikes he wont be in the 22 because he isnt vital enough, Lewis just took his spot. Trenners may very well never play again (a reality that too many here are too scared or too sentimental to face) and there is no way in hell they would play him as a small forward he is an inside mid or a VFL player. ANB is on thin ice and while is young and has another year of development to go before a proper judgement is made he is a long way off it. 

Green is at an age where 1 proper preseason can set him up to break into the side by maybe round 6/7. He is only 23 so he has plenty of time not like he is a 28yo we need to be have an instant impact.. Bring him in see what we can get, might be something, might be nothing but has more to offer than Michie ever did.

[ArtificialWisdom 3,964]

8 minutes ago, jeck wartz said:

Garlett had kicked 40 plus goals in multiple seasons, Green has never even gone close, bad comparison.

He kicked 33 in a [censored] team in 2014.. that was just his 4th season. Jeffy has been around alot longer, and has had big years but last year was his only big year in an average side the others have all been in much better sides than Greens was in.

Green is no superman and i understand your consern but he isnt the spud you seem to be making him out to be. He had a shocking year as did the rest of his side. A fresh start might do him the world of good

[Dr evil 1,185]

Just now, stuie said:

Garlett was all but delisted by a poor team. That's the point.

Not sure if you are conveniently missing the obvious points or you just aren't catching on.

 

No Stuie, you're deflecting.

1. at the time we didn't have the small forward stocks we do now, making it a need, which it currently is not.

2. Garlett had significantly better exposed form at AFL level than what Green does, making him a significantly less speculative recruit.

i didn't say that no player de listed from a poor team would get picked up again by a stronger team.

i said the % of instances of that happening is extremely low, which it is. 

 

 

 

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,022]

Can we let him train with us over summer with no guarantee?

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, jeck wartz said:

No Stuie, you're deflecting.

1. at the time we didn't have the small forward stocks we do now, making it a need, which it currently is not.

2. Garlett had significantly better exposed form at AFL level than what Green does, making him a significantly less speculative recruit.

i didn't say that no player de listed from a poor team would get picked up again by a stronger team.

i said the % of instances of that happening is extremely low, which it is.

I haven't deflected at all. I've used your own statements against you, so if you think that is deflecting then you may need to have a conversation with yourself.

I've never said Green is as good a bet as Garlett.

I'm saying that, interviews and assessments pending, Green could be worth a rookie list spot. Pretty different from offering Garlett a contract and spot on the senior list.

 

[Dr evil 1,185]

5 minutes ago, stuie said:

I haven't deflected at all. I've used your own statements against you, so if you think that is deflecting then you may need to have a conversation with yourself.

I've never said Green is as good a bet as Garlett.

I'm saying that, interviews and assessments pending, Green could be worth a rookie list spot. Pretty different from offering Garlett a contract and spot on the senior list.

 

Lol righto stuie.

you're the one who made the comparison between the two. 

all i am saying is the Lions have a need for a small forward and delisted him anyway, so there is probably aspects to this we aren't aware of. 

we don't need a small forward so he doesn't at all fit our recruiting needs, so picking him up as a rookie would be a waste of time, because even if he gets fit and in form he's still behind Kent and Garlett. 

it's not a good fit for him, and it's not a good fit for us and i reckon that is pretty obvious to most people.

[mauriesy 6,911]

You don't need interviews and assessments. You just need to look at his play, even in a bad side.

Green is not "speculative". You know exactly what you are getting. There's a very limited ceiling and its probably been reached.