personally, i don't see anything wrong with a democratic referendum/plebiscite

This is simply what must happen. Such an important matter cannot be left up to politicians. They may be elected by the Australian people, but very few truly represent them.

If you are heterosexual you are allowed to marry, yet if you are homosexual you are not. That's discrimination no matter how you look at it. As stated earlier, if you are not gay how would same-sex legislation affect you? It wouldn't.

Those who disagree with the notion of gay marriage are somewhat hypocritical. Given the exact same freedoms that allow/entitle them the right to have such views is the rights they are denying other people.

This is simply what must happen. Such an important matter cannot be left up to politicians. They may be elected by the Australian people, but very few truly represent them.

If you are heterosexual you are allowed to marry, yet if you are homosexual you are not. That's discrimination no matter how you look at it. As stated earlier, if you are not gay how would same-sex legislation affect you? It wouldn't.

Those who disagree with the notion of gay marriage are somewhat hypocritical. Given the exact same freedoms that allow/entitle them the right to have such views is the rights they are denying other people.

Weeeellllll NNNNoooooo

Not really "what MUST happen" just what this incompetent government is making happen.

and perhaps incompetent is too strong as they led by Abbott as the master pragmatist know how to get and stay in government.

so very competent at holding onto government.

We all know they idealogically dont want gay marriage but to say so would be political oblivion better to obfuscate coz its not something they can lie about nor can they blame the Labour party for.

Personally I am ambivalent and cant see why this bit of legislation is so important. We have recognised the rights in every other sense I believe so why not just do it....see above

Weeeellllll NNNNoooooo

Not really "what MUST happen" just what this incompetent government is making happen.

and perhaps incompetent is too strong as they led by Abbott as the master pragmatist know how to get and stay in government.

so very competent at holding onto government.

We all know they idealogically dont want gay marriage but to say so would be political oblivion better to obfuscate coz its not something they can lie about nor can they blame the Labour party for.

Personally I am ambivalent and cant see why this bit of legislation is so important. We have recognised the rights in every other sense I believe so why not just do it....see above

you seem confused dpositive

are you more worried about gay marriage rights or whether abbott stays in government?

personally i can't see how either party can be seen as championing gay marriage rights

both have exercised the same political dithering for the same self interest

A couple of points on this.

Going back to nutbeans original post that same sex marriage should be a "no brainer". I am in somewhat of agreement. Where my problem lies is the the people who do argue for traditional marriage are slandered as "bigots" or "homophobes". Our current legislation stipulates marriage is between a man and a women. If you want it changed you need to do better than that.

Second Abbott is the first PM to make same sex marriage a possibility. The hatred for him on this issue shows an intolerance in the people trying to portray tolerance. All the stats show same sex marriage to be approved by 70% of the people. A plebecite or referendum should bring it in. Labor in their last term had an atheist, non married, socialist backgrounded PM who had every opportunity to bring in marriage equality and she flat out refused. Labor want the Libs to have a conscious vote on it when they won't do it themselves. Abbott is the champion of same sex marriage and people blinded by political hatred can't see it.

Im not confused Dc

Certainly not worried by gay marriage rights but concerned with Abbott in power.

His pragmatic actions are only to retain his position.

For Wrecker to say Abbott is the champion of same sex marriage is a bit of a stretch, if he was he would just pass it. Like Gillard he is also spooked by the power of the conservative minority.

Abbott is displaying more dysfunctional governing attributes than the minority labour government ever did without the same reasons.

I dont think we will have to worry about him long. If the government continues to alienate itself from so many minorities it will self immolate.

I guess I can say from the independent seat of Indi that I dont see either party really advancing the cause of democratic representation.

So not confused but involved and wishing to be able to make well informed decisions.

Thanks for your contributions to discussions

Im not confused Dc

Certainly not worried by gay marriage rights but concerned with Abbott in power.

His pragmatic actions are only to retain his position.

For Wrecker to say Abbott is the champion of same sex marriage is a bit of a stretch, if he was he would just pass it. Like Gillard he is also spooked by the power of the conservative minority.

Abbott is displaying more dysfunctional governing attributes than the minority labour government ever did without the same reasons.

I dont think we will have to worry about him long. If the government continues to alienate itself from so many minorities it will self immolate.

I guess I can say from the independent seat of Indi that I dont see either party really advancing the cause of democratic representation.

So not confused but involved and wishing to be able to make well informed decisions.

Thanks for your contributions to discussions

well dp, i thought this thread was about gay marriage rights

it's not a thread about posters' general opinions of abbott, which it seems you are determined to make it

abbott's put his political position and it's for a plebiscite/referendum next term, so in that respect he is not enforcing his personal publicly stated opinion

so, as far as abbott goes he is not standing in the way of gay marriages rights but letting the public (i.e. you) decide

let's not go off-topic

Labor in their last term had an atheist, non married, socialist backgrounded PM who had every opportunity to bring in marriage equality and she flat out refused.

She's just come out in support of it. How courageous. <insert sarcasm emoticon>

But you're kidding yourself if you think Abbott is the champion of same sex marriage.

Firstly, if he was, the debate would be over, legislation passed, and the caravan would have moved on already.

Secondly, despite the public opinion polls, a referendum is still the best chance of defeating it; a fully-funded no campaign, a conservative electorate, and the full armoury of the office of the PM advocating against it, could all combine to knock it on the head.

Abbott isn't championing same sex marriage, he's playing smart politics. The referendum path placates the public and the moderates in the Coalition, and gives him his best chance of maintaining the status quo.

She's just come out in support of it. How courageous. <insert sarcasm emoticon>

But you're kidding yourself if you think Abbott is the champion of same sex marriage.

Firstly, if he was, the debate would be over, legislation passed, and the caravan would have moved on already.

Secondly, despite the public opinion polls, a referendum is still the best chance of defeating it; a fully-funded no campaign, a conservative electorate, and the full armoury of the office of the PM advocating against it, could all combine to knock it on the head.

Abbott isn't championing same sex marriage, he's playing smart politics. The referendum path placates the public and the moderates in the Coalition, and gives him his best chance of maintaining the status quo.

i read abbott, on this issue a bit differently, grapeviney

i think he privately concedes it's a lost cause and is effectively stepping back and doing a pilate by "washing his hands of it"

of course he is doing it this way for optimum political gain, hoping to not lose the moderates/conservatives and not alienate (too much) the progressives/gays

of course i could be wrong and i'm certainly not saying it as an apologist for abbott (far from it)

p.s. he's certainly not championing it by any stretch

I read aboott as also thinking its a lost cause, so he want s to delay delay delay, to try to stave it of from his time...

he doesn't want this bill on his record.

She's just come out in support of it. How courageous. <insert sarcasm emoticon>

But you're kidding yourself if you think Abbott is the champion of same sex marriage.

Firstly, if he was, the debate would be over, legislation passed, and the caravan would have moved on already.

Secondly, despite the public opinion polls, a referendum is still the best chance of defeating it; a fully-funded no campaign, a conservative electorate, and the full armoury of the office of the PM advocating against it, could all combine to knock it on the head.

Abbott isn't championing same sex marriage, he's playing smart politics. The referendum path placates the public and the moderates in the Coalition, and gives him his best chance of maintaining the status quo.

I was being a bit facetious saying Abbott is (was) the champion of same sex marriage. He was the only PM who has given it a chance though up until Turnbull who will apparently keep the same stance.

I do agree with your analysis of the position.