capital punishment

[dee-luded 2,959]

start off in indonesia

the Indonesian president Joko Widodo has recently sent some to death row.

The Basics

Name: Joko Widodo (nickname Jokowi)
Date of Birth:June 21, 1962
Religion: Muslim
Political Party: Indonesian Democratic Party of Struggle (PDI-P)
Marital Status: Married to Iriana Joko Widodo
Children: Two sons (Gibran Rakabuming, age 26 and Kaesang Pangarep, age 19) and one daughter (Kahiyang Ayu, age 23)
Alma Mater: Gadjah Mada University (earned a degree in forestry in 1985)
Political Offices Held: Governor of Jakarta (2012- present), Mayor of Surakarta, also known as Solo (2005-2012)

what is the persuasion for now sending people back to death row? Is this politically driven against Australia for turning back the boats; & for Australian protests against deforestation, & against the PALM OIL debates?

the ABC aired a 4 corners episode about recent Capitol punishment events,

"KERRY O'BRIEN: These men, these two men who are on death row committed their crime 10 years ago, long before this president decided to get this tough on drugs and say "no clemency." Their death sentence was effectively suspended under president Yudhoyono. Suddenly this new president changes the ground rules; these men face the firing squad. Just their bad luck? A political lottery with people's lives"?

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2015/02/09/4174751.htm

[nutbean 8,838]

The foolishness of these boys and anyone caught dealing drugs in Asian countries defies description - you are gambling with your life - no one can say they did not know.

I do divorce this though from my thinking on capital punishment. Short and sweet - we have not progressed one millimeter as a humane society if we think capital punishment is acceptable. If causing death/murder is abhorrent (which it is) then how is state sanctioned death/murder any less abhorrent.

[hardtack 10,627]

This Indonesian response in justifying the death sentence for dealing drugs, is the numbers who die as a result of their use. If that was a genuine concern, then despite the legality of these drugs, anyone selling cigarettes/tobacco products and alchohol, should also be waiting their turn on death row... they are directly responsible for far more deaths than any of the illegal drugs.

Edited February 15, 2015 by hardtack

[Wrecker45 3,378]

The foolishness of these boys and anyone caught dealing drugs in Asian countries defies description - you are gambling with your life - no one can say they did not know.

I do divorce this though from my thinking on capital punishment. Short and sweet - we have not progressed one millimeter as a humane society if we think capital punishment is acceptable. If causing death/murder is abhorrent (which it is) then how is state sanctioned death/murder any less abhorrent.

Spot on Nutbean.

[dee-luded 2,959]

The foolishness of these boys and anyone caught dealing drugs in Asian countries defies description - you are gambling with your life - no one can say they did not know.

I do divorce this though from my thinking on capital punishment. Short and sweet - we have not progressed one millimeter as a humane society if we think capital punishment is acceptable. If causing death/murder is abhorrent (which it is) then how is state sanctioned death/murder any less abhorrent.

not just in Asian countries 'nut', even here... an old mate, I heard recently, who was a bit of a dark side of life lad, apparently died a few years back up Nth around the drug scene. stoned on smack & with a caustic soda smoothie. found that way!!!

horrifying.

can just shake my head.

[dee-luded 2,959]

start off in indonesia

the Indonesian president Joko Widodo has recently sent some to death row.

The Basics

Name: Joko Widodo (nickname Jokowi)

Date of Birth:June 21, 1962

Religion: Muslim

Political Party: Indonesian Democratic Party of Struggle (PDI-P)

Marital Status: Married to Iriana Joko Widodo

Children: Two sons (Gibran Rakabuming, age 26 and Kaesang Pangarep, age 19) and one daughter (Kahiyang Ayu, age 23)

Alma Mater: Gadjah Mada University (earned a degree in forestry in 1985)

Political Offices Held: Governor of Jakarta (2012- present), Mayor of Surakarta, also known as Solo (2005-2012)

what is the persuasion for now sending people back to death row? Is this politically driven against Australia for turning back the boats; & for Australian protests against deforestation, & against the PALM OIL debates?

the ABC aired a 4 corners episode about recent Capitol punishment events,

"KERRY O'BRIEN: These men, these two men who are on death row committed their crime 10 years ago, long before this president decided to get this tough on drugs and say "no clemency." Their death sentence was effectively suspended under president Yudhoyono. Suddenly this new president changes the ground rules; these men face the firing squad. Just their bad luck? A political lottery with people's lives"?

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2015/02/09/4174751.htm

This Indonesian response in justifying the death sentence for dealing drugs, is the numbers who die as a result of their use. If that was a genuine concern, then despite the legality of these drugs, anyone selling cigarettes/tobacco products and alchohol, should also be waiting their turn on death row... they are directly responsible for far more deaths than any of the illegal drugs.

Paradise for terrorists: 36 Bali bombers that killed 92 Australians are walking free

• 92 Australians were killed in the 2002 and 2005 attacks
• All 36 terrorists who were not sentenced to life are now free
• Five men form the two attacks remain ­behind bars
• Up to 100 more terrorist could be free by next year

FOR the survivors of the Bali bomb attacks it is a terrifying tally, but for the families of the 92 Australians killed it is simply heartbreaking.

All 36 Indonesian terrorists who were sentenced to anything less than life for their parts in the 2002 and 2005 bar and restaurant ­attacks, which killed a further 130 victims, are now free.

And up to 100 more terrorists convicted for other ­attacks on local and western interests in Indonesia will be freed in the coming year, ­according to a leading expert.

Only five men from the two Bali attacks remain ­behind bars on life sentences. Indonesia’s Justice and Human Rights Ministry said they were not entitled to ­remission or clemency.

""It definitely sucks when someone who was involved in killing people, including seven of my friends, and injuring me so badly, is out there.

Phil Britten ""

Badly injured ... one of the injured victims from the Kuta bombings is wheeled into the Royal Darwin Hospital after being airlifted from Bali.

and what of this, er, person. - AbuBakar Bashir

I know 'dads' who have lost their sons. We’ve still got the memories and pain of what was. Yet these guys can get on with their lives.

Phil Britten

& this one, Imam Samudra??????

what is going on in the head of this new president of Indonesia, Joko Widodo?

[dee-luded 2,959]

a flashback of Bali bombs...

too close to call for some of us.

Stephen Febey, & our mates & fellow countrymen/women

http://www.news.com.au/world/bali-bombings-terrorist-hambali-yet-to-face-trial-after-years-in-guantnamo-bay/story-fndir2ev-1227138209751

Jason McCartney (on stretcher) and Mick Martyn in the casulty section of the Bali hospital hours after the terror bomb blast at the Sari Club. Picture: Bali Post.

the question is glaring, where is the justice & balance in all their Justice system?

Edited February 19, 2015 by dee-luded

[nutbean 8,838]

the question is glaring, where is the justice & balance in all their Justice system?

That is surely a rhetorical question....

( having read countless examples of Indonesian "justice" over 30 odd years nothing surprises me and everything usually upsets me)

[Biffen 12,947]

John Howard was the one who let the AFP tip off the Indonesian police rather than let them get home.

I remember him taking the credit for it after one of the nines' father rang the AFP himself.

Terrible thing to do as was the Hicks incarceration.

As an aside.i have no problem with the death penalty for serial killers,multiple murderers,jihadists,rapists and other low life.

No drama at all. Bring it in here also .

Drug importers should probably not be executed but these guys wre insAnely stupid.

I feel sorry for their parents but they knew the risks.

They have no hope at all.

[Earl Hood 6,101]

John Howard was the one who let the AFP tip off the Indonesian police rather than let them get home.

I remember him taking the credit for it after one of the nines' father rang the AFP himself.

Terrible thing to do as was the Hicks incarceration.

As an aside.i have no problem with the death penalty for serial killers,multiple murderers,jihadists,rapists and other low life.

No drama at all. Bring it in here also .

Drug importers should probably not be executed but these guys wre insAnely stupid.

I feel sorry for their parents but they knew the risks.

They have no hope at all.

Biff I remember Mick Kelty setting them up after one of the fathers had alerted the AFP of what his son was up to, imploring AFP to stop them leaving the country. Instead Kelty informed the Indonesians and they were then cactus. But I never understood why, we could have picked them up on their return quite easily. Not sure about where Johnny came into it.

However I must disagree on the death penalty, it just doesn't work at any level. It is not consistently applied, it is sometimes found in retrospect That the person was innocent and a lot of executions are politically driven by some despot wanting to demonstrate his power. And it is not cheap, millions are usually spent in the lead up inquiries and appeals and on the act itself. And what is achieved in the end?

[dee-luded 2,959]

John Howard was the one who let the AFP tip off the Indonesian police rather than let them get home.

I remember him taking the credit for it after one of the nines' father rang the AFP himself.

Terrible thing to do as was the Hicks incarceration.

As an aside.i have no problem with the death penalty for serial killers,multiple murderers,jihadists,rapists and other low life.

No drama at all. Bring it in here also .

Drug importers should probably not be executed but these guys wre insAnely stupid.

I feel sorry for their parents but they knew the risks.

They have no hope at all.

Yes, I was trying to remember just Who, was the Attorney General at that time of 2005, as well as the Foreign Affairs Minister.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Howard_Ministry

& as an aside, hasn't the Australian Aged Care system improved out of sight, since the Howard Government took power in 1996 ? NOT...

.

death penalty = crimes against humanity .

Edited February 20, 2015 by dee-luded

[dee-luded 2,959]

Biff I remember Mick Kelty setting them up after one of the fathers had alerted the AFP of what his son was up to, imploring AFP to stop them leaving the country. Instead Kelty informed the Indonesians and they were then cactus. But I never understood why, we could have picked them up on their return quite easily. Not sure about where Johnny came into it.

However I must disagree on the death penalty, it just doesn't work at any level. It is not consistently applied, it is sometimes found in retrospect That the person was innocent and a lot of executions are politically driven by some despot wanting to demonstrate his power. And it is not cheap, millions are usually spent in the lead up inquiries and appeals and on the act itself. And what is achieved in the end?

Disgusted at the time of the AFP... I went out with an AFP officer in the 90's, & thought they were pretty good... But this smacks loud of political interference & a Polli' Fix.

crimes against humanity.... terrorist bombers, & war criminals.

Edited February 20, 2015 by dee-luded

[hardtack 10,627]

A friend of mine, Louiza Zervos, was one of those killed in the Bali bombing... she would have been one of the last people to call for the death penalty.

[daisycutter 29,743]

Biff I remember Mick Kelty setting them up after one of the fathers had alerted the AFP of what his son was up to, imploring AFP to stop them leaving the country. Instead Kelty informed the Indonesians and they were then cactus. But I never understood why, we could have picked them up on their return quite easily. Not sure about where Johnny came into it.

However I must disagree on the death penalty, it just doesn't work at any level. It is not consistently applied, it is sometimes found in retrospect That the person was innocent and a lot of executions are politically driven by some despot wanting to demonstrate his power. And it is not cheap, millions are usually spent in the lead up inquiries and appeals and on the act itself. And what is achieved in the end?

would have made the french revolution less exciting, but

[dee-luded 2,959]

A friend of mine, Louiza Zervos, was one of those killed in the Bali bombing... she would have been one of the last people to call for the death penalty.

in regard to herself maybe, but when we all see/here of others being beheaded mercilessly, or innocent Iraqi family's & their kids getting obliterated by a car bomber, those organising this bombing should be 'sent to', without fanfare.

ratko mladic.... pol pot.... & many others since them, should all pay the price & publicly, like the french did, Justice being seen to be done,,, for these types.

[hardtack 10,627]

in regard to herself maybe, but when we all see/here of others being beheaded mercilessly, or innocent Iraqi family's & their kids getting obliterated by a car bomber, those organising this bombing should be 'sent to', without fanfare.

ratko mladic.... pol pot.... & many others since them, should all pay the price & publicly, like the french did, Justice being seen to be done,,, for these types.

That just puts us on their level. It doesn't matter how many of the jihadists that you kill, they become martyrs and a whole new generation of martyrs rises... this is exactly what resulted from Bush's war on terrorism following the Sept 11 attack.

I don't know what the answer is (no-one does), but as far as I'm concerned, the old biblical approach of an eye for an eye will change nothing for the better and will surely make things worse for all concerned.

[dee-luded 2,959]

That just puts us on their level. It doesn't matter how many of the jihadists that you kill, they become martyrs and a whole new generation of martyrs rises... this is exactly what resulted from Bush's war on terrorism following the Sept 11 attack.

I don't know what the answer is (no-one does), but as far as I'm concerned, the old biblical approach of an eye for an eye will change nothing for the better and will surely make things worse for all concerned.

I don't agree with you this time hardtack,, I know for sure that with the Islamists here who want to go to the Middle East to fight a jihad for isil or other, than IMO I want them to go...

a one way ticket, not to come back; & anyone who has aided them to get there, via giving finances, & those mentoring them into jihadists, they can all share a plane out of here with a paid for one way ticket. & no visa & passport to get back.

time now to rid this continent of these who would take over, & seeYa in the next life, maybe.

[dee-luded 2,959]

That just puts us on their level. It doesn't matter how many of the jihadists that you kill, they become martyrs and a whole new generation of martyrs rises... this is exactly what resulted from Bush's war on terrorism following the Sept 11 attack.

I don't know what the answer is (no-one does), but as far as I'm concerned, the old biblical approach of an eye for an eye will change nothing for the better and will surely make things worse for all concerned.

bush's war on terrorism in Iraq, wasn't a legitimate war with UN agreement, & Iraq had nothing to do with Al Qaeda, but Afghanistan did in part, via the Taliban, but the Afghani's do not want anything to do with Al Qaeda..

the 'collateral damage' that the wolves of the whitehouse are prepared to put up with in the so-called name of the free world is the whole problem, & this creates great hatred.

Fancy the good ol' USofA going in to rescue the Iraqi people from Saddam Hussein, only to let the hospitals, libraries, museums, etc be totally vandalised & looted by low-lives & by some of the US themselves, stealing artifacts & heritage cultural importance items.

the sewers & water supply was let be trashed, & health was abandoned..... truly winning hearts & minds that was. they were better of with Saddam. they had clean water & sewerage.

... after bush's entry into Iraq, the whole middle East is in a gigantic MESS. he started the whole MESS.

Osama Bin Laden smited him, & bush jnr fell into the trap headfirst, like he had his head over the Toilet Bowl already... how could someone like him Not?

.

Edited February 20, 2015 by dee-luded