9 hours ago, ProDee said:

You're a dope, Earl.  All 50 states in America were in snow recently, yet you pick out fires in a country that has always had fires.

There's a reason that anyone with half a brain from both sides of the debate don't sight seasonally predicted extreme weather conditions.

Earth to Earl - the planet will always warm and cool, always has and always will.

I think you missed my point, O Learned One, scientists believe these forests have never burnt before and they are thousands of years old. These fires are not the result of a few hot days in January but long term drying out of the alpine environment.

5 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

I think you missed my point, O Learned One, scientists believe these forests have never burnt before and they are thousands of years old. These fires are not the result of a few hot days in January but long term drying out of the alpine environment.

LOL.

The Earth has been burning for half a billion years.

Climate is always changing, Earl.  Always has, always will.

CO2 is one half of one tenth of one percent of the Earth's atmosphere and it doesn't drive climate change.  The sun (along with 100 other variables) does.

Pro,

 

sure, climate has always changed. Over the past thirty million years, our continent has been gradually rafting towards the equator and is getting warmer. This is why the eucalypt replaced the rainforest. 

But the trouble is in the timing. It is now heating up so quickly that we won't have time to adapt. Look how many of the hottest days have occurred in the past fifteen years. This, combined with the fact that we have built up a society which is totally dependant upon a steady climate and fossil fuel, presents an existential threat to us. To my children. 

There re is so much evidence of this, if you could only look at it with unblinkered eyes. Just one thing I've looked at in the past few days is an episode of Catalyst - currently available on ABC Iview - on the greater frequency and potency of mega fires. It lays the facts out so clearly.  I don't know where you live, but I've seen some of these fires up close and personal. They are really scary. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Jara said:

Pro,

 

sure, climate has always changed. Over the past thirty million years, our continent has been gradually rafting towards the equator and is getting warmer. This is why the eucalypt replaced the rainforest. 

But the trouble is in the timing. It is now heating up so quickly that we won't have time to adapt. Look how many of the hottest days have occurred in the past fifteen years. This, combined with the fact that we have built up a society which is totally dependant upon a steady climate and fossil fuel, presents an existential threat to us. To my children. 

There re is so much evidence of this, if you could only look at it with unblinkered eyes. Just one thing I've looked at in the past few days is an episode of Catalyst - currently available on ABC Iview - on the greater frequency and potency of mega fires. It lays the facts out so clearly.  I don't know where you live, but I've seen some of these fires up close and personal. They are really scary. 

 

 

No mate, you're just an hysterical alarmist that believes all that you're being fed.  CO2 is .04% of the atmosphere and doesn't drive climate, the Sun does.

The following is not hard to read (one page) and won't take long.  Do yourself a favour and have a read, but try to open those eyes while you're doing so.

http://edberry.com/blog/ed-berry/new-study-sun-not-co2-causes-climate-change/

 

"...although fluctuations in the amount of solar energy reaching our atmosphere do influence our climate, the global warming trend of the past six decades cannot be attributed to changes in the sun"

Caption for the image:
"Heat-trapping emissions (greenhouse gases) far outweigh the effects of other drivers acting on Earth’s climate. Source: Hansen et al. 2005, Figure adapted by Union of Concerned Scientists."

 

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/science/effect-of-sun-on-climate-faq.html#.Vq77uPF0KwY

15 minutes ago, hardtack said:

"...although fluctuations in the amount of solar energy reaching our atmosphere do influence our climate, the global warming trend of the past six decades cannot be attributed to changes in the sun"

Caption for the image:
"Heat-trapping emissions (greenhouse gases) far outweigh the effects of other drivers acting on Earth’s climate. Source: Hansen et al. 2005, Figure adapted by Union of Concerned Scientists."

 

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/science/effect-of-sun-on-climate-faq.html#.Vq77uPF0KwY

The peer reviewed paper in the link I just shared proves the sun is the main driver of climate.  And, of course, it makes sense, because the planet has been cooler with far greater CO2 than we have now.  CO2 lags temperature. 

Read the link and report back.  

5 minutes ago, ProDee said:

The peer reviewed paper in the link I just shared proves the sun is the main driver of climate.  And, of course, it makes sense, because the planet has been cooler with far greater CO2 than we have now.  CO2 lags temperature. 

Read the link and report back.  

I'd like you to report to all of the signatories to the new agreement... they obviously need your expertise and insight (once they come to terms with your arrogance of course).  The UoCS comprises experts in the area of global science and it is their belief that the sun has had nothing to do with the continued warming over the past 6 decades... good enough for me. 

Couldn't help but notice the comment, a quote, from the NY Times, that the paper was written by some bloke who'd received  $1.2 million from the fossil fuel industry and failed to disclose that fact in his publications.

 

very objective.

19 minutes ago, Jara said:

Couldn't help but notice the comment, a quote, from the NY Times, that the paper was written by some bloke who'd received  $1.2 million from the fossil fuel industry and failed to disclose that fact in his publications.

 

very objective.

You're so desperate to believe you ignore science.

On 1/2/2016 at 5:50 PM, ProDee said:

The peer reviewed paper in the link I just shared proves the sun is the main driver of climate.  And, of course, it makes sense, because the planet has been cooler with far greater CO2 than we have now.  CO2 lags temperature. 

Read the link and report back.  

co-2 doesn't create heat...  it traps it under its blanketing effect like a giant 'doona',  so the radiant solar heat is kept in.   but the trouble is pd, that we can't control the sun.  its a bit too far man.

but we can effect our own little home we live ON.   buy reducing the size of the 'doona'',  we can allow heat to escape our clutches back outa space, man.

Edited February 2, 20169 yr by dee-luded

16 hours ago, ProDee said:

You're so desperate to believe you ignore science.

And you're so desperate to hang on to your pennies that you choose to believe anything that is presented as science (provided it coincides with your point of view).

17 hours ago, ProDee said:

You're so desperate to believe you ignore science.

No, just prefer science that isn't funded by vested interests. That's not science, it's propaganda and corruption. 

 

Do do you believe science funded by the tobacco industry? I suppose if I was some poor sod who was hooked on smokes and desperate to be reassured that the risks were minimal, I might allow myself to be deluded.

It's not just my "pennies", drone, it's the pennies of poverty stricken people across the world, who are needlessly struggling with expensive energy costs.  And it's the socialist agenda of the UN to re-engineer western economies. 

But rather than embrace new science that proves the sun is the driver of climate you're desperate to retain your guilt-ridden dogma that terrible humans are to blame. 

"We must do something, this is something, therefore we must do this."

The Left base all of their decision making on how it makes them "feel", which is why they stuff every economy and the fabric of every society they ever get their hands on.  Then it's up to conservatives to fix the mess.

4 hours ago, ProDee said:

It's not just my "pennies", drone, it's the pennies of poverty stricken people across the world, who are needlessly struggling with expensive energy costs.  And it's the socialist agenda of the UN to re-engineer western economies. 

But rather than embrace new science that proves the sun is the driver of climate you're desperate to retain your guilt-ridden dogma that terrible humans are to blame. 

"We must do something, this is something, therefore we must do this."

The Left base all of their decision making on how it makes them "feel", which is why they stuff every economy and the fabric of every society they ever get their hands on.  Then it's up to conservatives to fix the mess.

Stop it or you'll go blind!  I find it rather ironic that you say this while calling others drones.

And sorry, but I do not for one second believe that you care in the least about the poverty stricken.

4 hours ago, ProDee said:

It's not just my "pennies", drone, it's the pennies of poverty stricken people across the world, who are needlessly struggling with expensive energy costs.  And it's the socialist agenda of the UN to re-engineer western economies. 

But rather than embrace new science that proves the sun is the driver of climate you're desperate to retain your guilt-ridden dogma that terrible humans are to blame. 

"We must do something, this is something, therefore we must do this."

The Left base all of their decision making on how it makes them "feel", which is why they stuff every economy and the fabric of every society they ever get their hands on.  Then it's up to conservatives to fix the mess.

Good heavens a socialist conspiracy by the UN bent on world domination! Who would have thought it possible. I am confused We know western economies have been laid low before 1929, 1987, 2008 and it is nearly always due to excessive exuberance by the capitalist elite as Alan Greenspan termed it in 2008. 1973 and 1978 were caused by the oil shocks and a number of regidities in economies at the time. 

Each Time profits were capitalised on the way up and the loses were socialised on the way down. Governments stuffing up economies? Well yes they aren't perfect but maybe it is only when they lose contol of the private sector and its legion of parasites in the financial sectors who add near zero value to society

11 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Good heavens a socialist conspiracy by the UN bent on world domination! Who would have thought it possible. I am confused We know western economies have been laid low before 1929, 1987, 2008 and it is nearly always due to excessive exuberance by the capitalist elite as Alan Greenspan termed it in 2008. 1973 and 1978 were caused by the oil shocks and a number of regidities in economies at the time. 

Each Time profits were capitalised on the way up and the loses were socialised on the way down. Governments stuffing up economies? Well yes they aren't perfect but maybe it is only when they lose contol of the private sector and its legion of parasites in the financial sectors who add near zero value to society

Earl, I assume you can read ?

Christiana Figueres, the Executive Secretary of UNFCCC, warns that the fight against climate change is a process and that the necessary transformation of the world economy will not be decided at one conference or in one agreement.

“This is probably the most difficult task we have ever given ourselves, which is to intentionally transform the economic development model, for the first time in human history“, Ms Figueres stated at a press conference in Brussels:

“This is the first time in the history of mankind that we are setting ourselves the task of intentionally, within a defined period of time to change the economic development model that has been reigning for at least 150 years, since the industrial revolution. That will not happen overnight and it will not happen at a single conference on climate change, be it COP 15, 21, 40 – you choose the number. It just does not occur like that. It is a process, because of the depth of the transformation.”

12 hours ago, hardtack said:

And sorry, but I do not for one second believe that you care in the least about the poverty stricken.

And I care not a jot.

What's certain is that you don't.

14 minutes ago, ProDee said:

And I care not a jot.

What's certain is that you don't.

Rather than talk about it, we as a family actually give; just as we are prepared to give when it comes to securing a better environment. Judging by your posts, you see no further than your wallet.

Oh, and I'd love to see where you get your "trillions" of dollars spent on climate change figure from.

5 hours ago, hardtack said:

Rather than talk about it, we as a family actually give; just as we are prepared to give when it comes to securing a better environment. Judging by your posts, you see no further than your wallet.

Oh, and I'd love to see where you get your "trillions" of dollars spent on climate change figure from.

Ah, don't you love leftism ?  You have to feel morally superior, so see the need to declare your own charitable donations on a public forum.  But at the same time you support huge taxes on carbon dioxide, which impacts millions of the needy and their ability to warm or cool themselves.  

Classic leftism.  Do something that makes you "feel" (that word again) good and support something that makes zero difference to the climate, but negatively impacts the very people you're trying to support.  But at least you feel you're doing your part.

Stage one thinking.

 

 

23 hours ago, ProDee said:

It's not just my "pennies", drone, it's the pennies of poverty stricken people across the world, who are needlessly struggling with expensive energy costs.  And it's the socialist agenda of the UN to re-engineer western economies. 

But rather than embrace new science that proves the sun is the driver of climate you're desperate to retain your guilt-ridden dogma that terrible humans are to blame. 

"We must do something, this is something, therefore we must do this."

The Left base all of their decision making on how it makes them "feel", which is why they stuff every economy and the fabric of every society they ever get their hands on.  Then it's up to conservatives to fix the mess.

 

53 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Ah, don't you love leftism ?  You have to feel morally superior, so see the need to declare your own charitable donations on a public forum.  But at the same time you support huge taxes on carbon dioxide, which impacts millions of the needy and their ability to warm or cool themselves.  

Classic leftism.  Do something that makes you "feel" (that word again) good and support something that makes zero difference to the climate, but negatively impacts the very people you're trying to support.  But at least you feel you're doing your part.

Stage one thinking.

 

 

 

I think we all know which of us feels the need to be 'morally superior' on this forum.

38 minutes ago, Choke said:

 

 

I think we all know which of us feels the need to be 'morally superior' on this forum.

Morals have nothing to do with it.

It's simply common sense, Kid.

4 hours ago, ProDee said:

Ah, don't you love leftism ?  You have to feel morally superior, so see the need to declare your own charitable donations on a public forum.  But at the same time you support huge taxes on carbon dioxide, which impacts millions of the needy and their ability to warm or cool themselves.  

Classic leftism.  Do something that makes you "feel" (that word again) good and support something that makes zero difference to the climate, but negatively impacts the very people you're trying to support.  But at least you feel you're doing your part.

Stage one thinking.

Drone; even worse, a drone suffering from narcissistic personality disorder.

Oh, and if straw clutching was an olympic sport, you would be a gold medalist... I simply refuted your claim.  Nice to see you dodge the other part of my post: "Oh, and I'd love to see where you get your "trillions" of dollars spent on climate change figure from."

On 2/3/2016 at 9:14 PM, hardtack said:

Oh, and if straw clutching was an olympic sport, you would be a gold medalist... I simply refuted your claim.  Nice to see you dodge the other part of my post: "Oh, and I'd love to see where you get your "trillions" of dollars spent on climate change figure from."

There's zero doubt it will raise trillions of dollars.  A quick google search shows this.  Perhaps you have more faith than I that revenues will be wisely spent.

The following link gives its calculations.  It's a site whose politics you won't share, but that doesn't matter in regards to their simple equation.  

 http://www.climatechangedenier.com.au/carbon-tax/carbon-tax-will-cost-australia-1-35-trillion-dollars/

Edited February 8, 20169 yr by ProDee

On 2 February 2016 at 8:11 AM, ProDee said:

Earl, I assume you can read ?

Christiana Figueres, the Executive Secretary of UNFCCC, warns that the fight against climate change is a process and that the necessary transformation of the world economy will not be decided at one conference or in one agreement.

“This is probably the most difficult task we have ever given ourselves, which is to intentionally transform the economic development model, for the first time in human history“, Ms Figueres stated at a press conference in Brussels:

“This is the first time in the history of mankind that we are setting ourselves the task of intentionally, within a defined period of time to change the economic development model that has been reigning for at least 150 years, since the industrial revolution. That will not happen overnight and it will not happen at a single conference on climate change, be it COP 15, 21, 40 – you choose the number. It just does not occur like that. It is a process, because of the depth of the transformation.”

Why would you care about the UN - it's never been more impotent.

International / centralised agencies or organisations only gain power if individual nation states are willing to cede it, and there's no sign of that happening. In fact, the reverse may be true if you look at the current travails of the EU, which is lurking from one crisis to the next.

In Australia, we can't even wean ourselves off 3 separate tiers of government with its two houses of parliament nationally and in some states, an absurd and inefficient power structure.

So who exactly is going to enforce this new world order?

 

T

13 minutes ago, Grapeviney said:

 

So who exactly is going to enforce this new world order?

 

Can I apply for the job ?