Your argument lacks credibility, you can't merely speculate without evidence or even rumours that players are lazy or are idiots. Even so Dane Swan was determined to be too lazy to take in the first round and Jack Darling was thought to be an idiot look how well they're going. Ultimately it boils down to their footballing ability which is what I'm judging on.

Obviously Greene is not the only successful player to be taken after the first 4 picks so not sure why you're getting caught up on this point. Our three best payers Jones, Grimes and Clark were taken at 12, 14 and 9 respectively so of course I would love another pick around a bouts there.

Yeah an opinion which is based on watching under 18 carnival and talking to mates who played against these guys; so I'm certainly more informed than you who from your inane posts knows little to nothing about any of these players.

You seem to have a comprehension problem. Where did I speculate that any player in the draft was lazy or an idiot?

Suitability doesn't mean just the position they play it also involves the players character and work ethic. Some of the players you deem to have equivalent talent may be lazy (Gysberts) or just idiots.

There you go have another look.

You are the one that mentioned Greene first so what's you problem there?

Jones, Grimes and Clark were taken at 12, 14 and 9 respectively

Jones has been with the club for several years now and has finally had a good year but he is by no means an A grade player and picks 1 2 and 3 are generally more likely to produce a grade players

Grimes slid down the order because he had a back injury, one that kept him out of the side for about the first two years.

Clark as an established player was traded to us for pick 12 and Brisbane selected Sam Docherty who has played Zero Games.

So what's your point?

You seem to have a comprehension problem. Where did I speculate that any player in the draft was lazy or an idiot?

Suitability doesn't mean just the position they play it also involves the players character and work ethic. Some of the players you deem to have equivalent talent may be lazy (Gysberts) or just idiots.

There you go have another look.

You are the one that mentioned Greene first so what's you problem there?

Jones, Grimes and Clark were taken at 12, 14 and 9 respectively

Jones has been with the club for several years now and has finally had a good year but he is by no means an A grade player and picks 1 2 and 3 are generally more likely to produce a grade players

Grimes slid down the order because he had a back injury, one that kept him out of the side for about the first two years.

Clark as an established player was traded to us for pick 12 and Brisbane selected Sam Docherty who has played Zero Games.

So what's your point?

Umm you said some players may be lazy or idiots is that not speculation? Anyway I'd rather not deal in fanciful conversation rather things I have witnessed which is, based on footballing performance the top 6-7 are very even.

My point is that AFL's best players weren't all selected in the top 4 you surely understand this? I have backed it up with Melbourne as a point in case but you still can't seem to understand that having another pick in the first round will increase your odds have drafting a very good player.

Umm you said some players may be lazy or idiots is that not speculation? Anyway I'd rather not deal in fanciful conversation rather things I have witnessed which is, based on footballing performance the top 6-7 are very even.

My point is that AFL's best players weren't all selected in the top 4 you surely understand this? I have backed it up with Melbourne as a point in case but you still can't seem to understand that having another pick in the first round will increase your odds have drafting a very good player.

Some of the players you deem to have equivalent talent may be lazy (Gysberts) or just idiots.

Your argument lacks credibility, you can't merely speculate without evidence or even rumours that players are lazy or are idiots.

You really do have a comprehension problem so I can't see any point in trying to have a meaningful discussion with you; you just wouldn't understand it.

Some of the players you deem to have equivalent talent may be lazy (Gysberts) or just idiots.

Your argument lacks credibility, you can't merely speculate without evidence or even rumours that players are lazy or are idiots.

You really do have a comprehension problem so I can't see any point in trying to have a meaningful discussion with you; you just wouldn't understand it.

Clearly you fail to comprehend what speculation means, it is the the contemplation or consideration of some subject or a guess: a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence.

I'm sure you would rather turn this into a comprehension debate as your football knowledge is certainly lacking

This is how they measure draft pick value in the NFL http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php

I dare say that the value of the top picks in the NFL is higher than in the AFL by virtue of the importance of the quarterback.

Pick 3: Viney

Pick 4: Wines (better than O'Rourke, Toumpas will go at 2)

Perfect combo! Best mates growing up, blue chip players with good heads on their shoulders. Seem to push one another, compete with one another and get the best out of one another.

Pick 13 will be traded for either Dawes (I don't exactly approve) OR along with a player/s for pick 2 in the mini-draft for Hogan (pick 1 will be used on Martin by the Dogs)

Edited October 7, 201212 yr by ignition.

Pick 3: Viney

Pick 4: Wines (better than O'Rourke, Toumpas will go at 2)

Perfect combo! Best mates growing up, blue chip players with good heads on their shoulders. Seem to push one another, compete with one another and get the best out of one another.

Pick 13 will be traded for either Dawes (I don't exactly approve) OR along with a player/s for pick 2 in the mini-draft for Hogan (pick 1 will be used on Martin by the Dogs)

So are you saying the Suns will try to select Viney with pick two, thereby forcing us to take Viney at three and the Suns will then take Toumpas (their "second" choice) at two?

Absent this, I would've thought that if the Suns nominate Toumpas at two, we are then able to pick Viney with our second round pick - and hopefully Wines + Hogan or Grundy or O'Rourke with picks three and four.

The thought of possibly ending up with, 3 Toumpas 4 Wines 13 stringer 26 Viney .....WOW

Taking Viney at 3 id still be happy.

Come on dees please get this one right !!

Edited October 7, 201212 yr by Carn dees

So are you saying the Suns will try to select Viney with pick two, thereby forcing us to take Viney at three and the Suns will then take Toumpas (their "second" choice) at two?

Absent this, I would've thought that if the Suns nominate Toumpas at two, we are then able to pick Viney with our second round pick - and hopefully Wines + Hogan or Grundy or O'Rourke with picks three and four.

Yes that is exactly what I’m saying. I hope they don't nominate for him but from what I’m reading it's sounding less likely he will slide. As I previously wrote we could get Hogan with the MD pick 2, so we still may get a win out of the draft with say Viney, Wines, and Hogan. Anything more than that like the addition of Stringer, Grundy or another top 5 mid is nothing more than wishful thinking, and is only valid or feasible if Viney slides to the second round.

EDIT: Anyway mate we will find out if Viney gets nominated tomorrow /

Edited October 7, 201212 yr by ignition.

To anyone who has not read this yet. These two would be an awesome combo at the club!

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-two-of-us-20121006-276ao.html

To anyone who has not read this yet. These two would be an awesome combo at the club!

http://www.smh.com.a...1006-276ao.html

totally agree, alithough not brothers, it may be like watching the two scott brothers look after each other, except in the middle of the G!!!!

used to love watching the scott brothers play, just watching the chemistry on feild

Wines whilst he seems a great inside player, doesn't have great kicking skills...

I really want players whose kicking is just as much of a feature as any other aspect of their game.

Is that too much to ask for? Stringer seems like a complete package. I wouldn't mind picking him up at 4.

The thought of possibly ending up with, 3 Toumpas 4 Wines 13 stringer 26 Viney .....WOW

Taking Viney at 3 id still be happy.

Come on dees please get this one right !!

P.s What are the chances of GWS taking Grundy over Toumpas considering Giles may be on the move? Personally not keen on drafting a ruckman at pick 3

It's more likely GWS will take Whitfield with pick No.1 over Toumpas or Grundy. As for GC they have stated they need another inside hard at it midfield e.g Viney fits the bill, if they can't snare him then Toumpas is next on their list (can't pass that talent). I'm thinking Grundy will slide to the Dogs pick 5 or GWS pick 6 (obtained from the Dogs for the GWS mini-draft pick 1 used for Martin).

EDIT: That is on the basis that Viney is taken at 3, if he isn't and we get him in the 20's then yeah we may get Hogan from 4 and GWS will get Grundy from that pick, I can't see GC going for another young tall.

Edited October 7, 201212 yr by ignition.

Mark my words: caddy to us and pick 4 to GCS and allow Viney through to second round.

This will net us

Pick 3 Wines/o rourke or Grundy (of which we will choose Grundy as we are effectively bringing in 3 mids)

Pick 4 Caddy

Pick 13 and Stef Martin for Wellingham and Dawes

Pick 26 Viney

Edited October 7, 201212 yr by Demon Forever

lol pick 4 to GCS totally negates the advantage of getting Viney through to the second round.

lol pick 4 to GCS totally negates the advantage of getting Viney through to the second round.

Really?

So you think the following is better outcome?

Pick 3 viney

Pick 4 wines/o rourke or Grundy

Pick 13 whoever you think

Pick 26 a guess as to who is best available

My way I think we come up trumps

lol pick 4 to GCS totally negates the advantage of getting Viney through to the second round.

Well, if the alternative is that GC bid on Viney, it effectively becomes Pick 26 for Caddy.

JV at 3: Pick 4, 13, 26

JV at 26: Pick 3, 13, Caddy

Well, if the alternative is that GC bid on Viney, it effectively becomes Pick 26 for Caddy.

JV at 3: Pick 4, 13, 26

JV at 26: Pick 3, 13, Caddy

Exactly

That would be getting bent over and if the MFC agreed to this I would be dissapointed. Surely there are other ways of getting GC to pass without giving up pick 4 for such a marginal advantage.

That would be getting bent over and if the MFC agreed to this I would be dissapointed. Surely there are other ways of getting GC to pass without giving up pick 4 for such a marginal advantage.

Like how?

You seem to forget that we also want caddy. I really can't comprehend how we are getting bent over

Well, if the alternative is that GC bid on Viney, it effectively becomes Pick 26 for Caddy.

JV at 3: Pick 4, 13, 26

JV at 26: Pick 3, 13, Caddy

It isn't exactly a deal that would have me jumping for joy though.. you see all it really means is we get Caddy for 26.

Same outcome as having pick 4 and using 3 on Viney- instead we use 26 on Viney (win in principle yipee..) lose pick 4. and gain Caddy.

Effectively we are trading pick 4 for Caddy, because even if that pushes Viney to second round- we are left with only pick #3 after that deal.

Either way if there is any advantage at all it would be negligable, i'd rather they stick that offer and come up with something that doesn't involve pick 4.

I'd rather take him with 3 and use 4 as the end result will be the same and they can keep a player that doesn't want to be with them (caddy) and suck on it.

Plus I want Hogan, and we may need number 4 for that. If GC get their hands on #4 they will use it for him, and we will regret it.

Basically if GC want something to pass on Viney it aint going to be an early pick, I'd be very [censored] with this

That would be getting bent over and if the MFC agreed to this I would be dissapointed. Surely there are other ways of getting GC to pass without giving up pick 4 for such a marginal advantage.

While I would much rather being able to keep this pick and Viney to come in the 2nd round, I have a strong feeling that as it stands GC will bid their pick 2. This deal is a big improvement on that, so I would be happy enough.

Gee, it would be a shame if the two clubs agreed to this, they let Viney slip through and then Josh decides he doesn't want to go to us... terrible really.

Like how?

You seem to forget that we also want caddy. I really can't comprehend how we are getting bent over

We are paying 4 for Caddy because whilst using 4 gets us to nab Viney with 26, we still lose 4!

The whole point of getting Viney into the second round is so we can have our first two picks to use on other kids.

We either find another way to get Viney into the second round or GC can eat a d!ck.

You know what I hope happens?

I hope we promise them the world to pass on Viney, then when trade time comes we just give em the old, whatcha' talkin' 'bout Willis routine and watch them cry.

While I would much rather being able to keep this pick and Viney to come in the 2nd round, I have a strong feeling that as it stands GC will bid their pick 2. This deal is a big improvement on that, so I would be happy enough.

Gee, it would be a shame if the two clubs agreed to this, they let Viney slip through and then Josh decides he doesn't want to go to us... terrible really.

Don't read too much into caddys wishes. He either wants home or he stays. GC will do what's best for them

We are paying 4 for Caddy because whilst using 4 gets us to nab Viney with 26, we still lose 4!

The whole point of getting Viney into the second round is so we can have our first two picks to use on other kids.

We either find another way to get Viney into the second round or GC can eat a d!ck.

You know what I hope happens?

I hope we promise them the world to pass on Viney, then when trade time comes we just give em the old, whatcha' talkin' 'bout Willis routine and watch them cry.

With this trade we get:

pick 3

pick 13

Caddy

Viney

Without it we get:

Viney

pick 4

pick 13

pick 26

I'd therefore say we essentially get Caddy for pick 26 and GC gets a lot for nothing.

Then we just have to hope GWS don't bid.

Not sure acquiring Caddy goes along with any "no [censored]" policy though