Slipped So Quickly

[IRW 1,387]

I know you like to troll, but are you even aware that Bailey was also a schoolteacher?

As was Alistair Clarkson, Brendan McCartney, John Kennedy Sr, Neil Craig and many other coaches?

Ha good get buddy

Actually though I dont much like his persona as revealed in 2012 I have no firm opinion on whether Neeld is going to be a good coach.

Next year should tell us more.I'm certainly relieved that there dont seem to be wholesale coaching staff changes, that's a good sign.

The players ,most of them anyway, I can take or leave.

I think this thread is premature and pretty pointless myself and my post was meant to reflect that,not to troll.

I did have a friend who knew Kennedy in his Education dept role...said he was a real [censored]. He was clearly a very good coach of elite sportsmen

Bailey reminds me of my form 2 English teacher...good fun but a soft touch and no one learnt anything.

Schoolteacher is a slippery term in many ways.

Craig is obviously a schoolteacher,always has a lesson plan and is as boring as bat [censored].Probably good in the correct subject though.

[Frenzy Mckenzie 61]

There is a political/economic comparison that can be made to the Dean Bailey era at Melbourne and that is of the United States Presidency of George W. Bush.

1) Bush inherited an economy that facing a downturn after the dot.com bubble and the negative impact of 9/11 and tried to stimulate the economy with 'tax cuts' (though I must say rather disingenuously). The short term created massive deficits but few jobs/Bailey inherited an aging list with few newcomers and tried to pump it up with draft picks. The short term created some woeful performances but a few youngsters who showed promise.

2) After the initial firestorm, the economy recovered somewhat and GDP started to grow. Deficits were still a problem but unemployment had gotten to an even keel. A bigger problem was the insane risks financial institutions were taking with sub-prime mortgages and credit defaults swaps. Bush however lets these institutions call the shots /After a few years of pain, the club looked to be getting back on an even keel but massive losses to top four sides and a lack of fight is a problem. An even bigger problem (not known at the time) is the in house war taking place between the coaching and football department and Bailey taking the side of the playing group and in some cases kowtowing to their whims (i.e. cancelling fitness trials).

3) The stock market crash that caused the GFC. Thousands of points wiped off the stock market.Thousands more lose their homes. Large investment banks go under (Bear Stearns, AIG). This one day of carnage sets the tone for 3 years of economic pain to come/186 happens. Players show no fight and are absolutely pantsed making a mockery of their 'support' for Bailey. Bailey is sacked, Schwab reprimanded. Demons get flogged in subsequent game and win one more game for the year against Gold Coast, an expansion team.

Like the Great Recession, the seeds of it's cause were found somewhere in steps one and two: plans that were myopic and narrow sighted (playing exclusively high draft picks and shedding experience/cutting corporate tax rates) and an inability to stand up to those who could make the most difference (Bailey cozying up to the players to use in his game against Schwab and therefore giving them the whip hand/Bush playing havoc with the amount of leverage available to financial institutions and not once creating policy that might go against their perceived 'interest'). We still feel the negative blow back of 186 today in the form of the performances given. The 'successful' lead up of 2010/11 was merely masking the inherent weaknesses of that playing list. Neeld is our Barack Obama to some extent (not in his personal charisma but in regards to the mess he inherited). And like Obama, the jury is out if he can actually turn it around. I hope for his sake that he does. I guess unlike Obama he has stood up to some of the causes of the Meltdown but like Obama, he has yet to provide real results.

*Also kind of ironic both of these incidents both involved the GFC.

Highly entertaining for a friday arvo read. Cheers

[Sir Why You Little 37,120]

I agree^^^ There are good Teachers & Rubbish Teachers...

Remember First day of the school year....A New Teacher, Within 5 minutes I always knew whether they could be broken or not.

I don't think Neeld has been Broken....Beamer has left.

Bailey was/is a top bloke, But clearly the players broke him.

[IRW 1,387]

Highly entertaining for a friday arvo read. Cheers

Indeed, full marks for trying to lift and broaden the analytical vision of Demonland.

Both Bush and Bailey liked to attack, that much is clear, but I wish Bails had spent as much on Defence as Bush.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

You're aware Robbie that Moloney was ill in the lead up to the game and was actually out cold in the rooms during the second half of the game? Even from the standing room on the terraces at Kardinia Park you could tell he wasn't right and shouldn't have been out there. I'm not sure how his game was a "wake up to the club"? He did with the B+F.

As a point of interest, we actually fielded a younger team that day against Geelong than we did when we smashed the Swans 12 months earlier.

I'm amazed that people think there isn't (or wasn't given the delistings/trades) quality on our list - after all the top picks we've had over recent years there simply has to be quality on the list. There's 800 players in the AFL and not a single one makes it anywhere near an AFL list without a decent amount of ability. There were plenty of coaches and commentators ready to anoint MFC as the next big thing in 2010 - Michael Voss was one - so since then we've slipped to a team that essentially won one game in 2012. Even Neeld's comments about being the "hardest team to play against" suggest that he thought there was a bit there to work with.

2012 is going to be a season that will always divide opinion - realistically by mid-season of 2013 there should be a large improvement shown, in what is essentially year 6 of the rebuild. By that point we'll have a better idea of whether Neeld is the right man for the job.

Yes I did hear that and it makes you wonder what would motivate a player to put his hand up to play if he was that sick he really couldn't; there are a couple of players that have ruled themselves out of tomorrow's Grand Final for the good of the side, make of that what you will.

Getting top picks doesn't guarantee good players and I think that's proven to be fairly accurate in our case, have a look at the number of top 20 picks that are either playing for Casey or about to be delisted.

Do you think that Bate, Dunn, Maric, Morton, Strauss, Gysberts, Cook etc have been worthy of the top 20 picks we have used on them? Many, like yourself and Voss, just assumed that because we had so many top picks we would have a great list but no one ever took the time to realise that we had wasted most of them on very ordinary players. Yeah we should have a good list but we simply don't.

Have a look at it and ask yourself the question; how many would get a game at Hawthorn or any other team in the top 8 for that matter.

Can Neeld coach, I don't really know as yet, we'll have to wait and see, but one thing he will do is shake the [censored] out of the club and drag it in to the 21st century and hopefully show the players exactly what you have to do to be successful.

I'm sick of seeing Melbourne sides throw in the towel when the going gets tough, we aren't the toughest side to beat, as yet, but I'm sure that's what his aim is, no more leaders pointing and blaming when things go bad, leaders that actually try to do something about it.

[Hardnut 327]

Yes I did hear that and it makes you wonder what would motivate a player to put his hand up to play if he was that sick he really couldn't; there are a couple of players that have ruled themselves out of tomorrow's Grand Final for the good of the side, make of that what you will.

Getting top picks doesn't guarantee good players and I think that's proven to be fairly accurate in our case, have a look at the number of top 20 picks that are either playing for Casey or about to be delisted.

Do you think that Bate, Dunn, Maric, Morton, Strauss, Gysberts, Cook etc have been worthy of the top 20 picks we have used on them? Many, like yourself and Voss, just assumed that because we had so many top picks we would have a great list but no one ever took the time to realise that we had wasted most of them on very ordinary players. Yeah we should have a good list but we simply don't.

Have a look at it and ask yourself the question; how many would get a game at Hawthorn or any other team in the top 8 for that matter.

Can Neeld coach, I don't really know as yet, we'll have to wait and see, but one thing he will do is shake the [censored] out of the club and drag it in to the 21st century and hopefully show the players exactly what you have to do to be successful.

I'm sick of seeing Melbourne sides throw in the towel when the going gets tough, we aren't the toughest side to beat, as yet, but I'm sure that's what his aim is, no more leaders pointing and blaming when things go bad, leaders that actually try to do something about it.

RobbieF, has it ever occurred to you that some players will put their body on the line no matter how sick they feel? In hindsight, it may not appear right, but are you questioning the player's courage and determination? Perhaps you should be questioning the medical staff?

When it comes to draft picks, again you are using hindsight (assuming you are correct) and effectively now questioning the recruiting staff - or should you be questioning the coaching and development staff?

Also, why did we get rid of experienced players such as Miller and McDonald, at the end of their careers certainly, but useful as experienced players to help the younger ones?

Get off the Neeld defensive bandwagon, look at a few other clubs, and see how to do the job properly!

[Brian Wilson 331]

Great. Comparing the MFC to the U.S.A of the last 10 years.

That means we really are [censored]. No more finals GF's or Cups.

Thanks.

But Clint Eastwood said it's only 'half time' for America. Mind you, he also spoke to a chair at the Republican Convention...

[Sir Why You Little 37,120]

But Clint Eastwood said it's only 'half time' for America. Mind you, he also spoke to a chair at the Republican Convention...

I saw that Conversation Live....Clint is going into Twilight time.

The Stunt Basckfired severly!!

[Dee Fan 3,247]

RobbieF, has it ever occurred to you that some players will put their body on the line no matter how sick they feel? In hindsight, it may not appear right, but are you questioning the player's courage and determination? Perhaps you should be questioning the medical staff?

When it comes to draft picks, again you are using hindsight (assuming you are correct) and effectively now questioning the recruiting staff - or should you be questioning the coaching and development staff?

Also, why did we get rid of experienced players such as Miller and McDonald, at the end of their careers certainly, but useful as experienced players to help the younger ones?

Get off the Neeld defensive bandwagon, look at a few other clubs, and see how to do the job properly!

Because he was no good, that's why Richmond got rid of him as well. Maric was also delisted by them just as a matter of interest, in case you didn't know.

What about you give us the benefit of your expertise and let us know ow we should go about the job properly?

You're a waste of time but you won't be wasting any more of mine.

[Hardnut 327]

Because he was no good, that's why Richmond got rid of him as well. Maric was also delisted by them just as a matter of interest, in case you didn't know.

What about you give us the benefit of your expertise and let us know ow we should go about the job properly?

You're a waste of time but you won't be wasting any more of mine.

Miller retired after helping Richmond in the way I said he would have been useful at MFC - I did not claim he was a great player.

You have introduced Maric - that is a different situation and not relevant to my comments.

Why won't you address my questions and comments? More significantly, why don't you READ posts more carefully?

We all want MFC to return to its previous glory, but that will require analytical thinking and actions, not blind following.

[Lordweaver 235]

What has Neeld achieved this year? Getting mitch across - a win, Moloney - a loss, Game Plan??? Whilst he hasn't had much time to prove his worth, IMO he hasn't shown much to get excited about.

[Guest]

But Clint Eastwood said it's only 'half time' for America. Mind you, he also spoke to a chair at the Republican Convention...

They were expecting Dirty Harry... they got Grandpa Simpson instead.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Yes I did hear that and it makes you wonder what would motivate a player to put his hand up to play if he was that sick he really couldn't; there are a couple of players that have ruled themselves out of tomorrow's Grand Final for the good of the side, make of that what you will.

...

I know it's not a popular opinion on here, but it's probably more acceptable now... Moloney simply isn't a very intelligent bloke.

That's the crux of it.

[Deecisive 1,709]

I dont think we can keep using young side as an excuse, most teams have young players in their side and they are capable of getting the ball, how many young GWC players played all over us when we played them. I think RobbieF has it right we have had a lot of low draft picks that have gone no where. I doubt they were the wrong players I just suspect that we dont teach them properly, didnt install the right attitude and work ethic. This years melbourne team really did0nt do enough to help each out, we look for man on his own for the easy kick and get punished pretty quickly when we are sloppy and turn it over, I still cringe when i see some of our backmen get the ball and start looking across the field. Coaches can only do so much for teams its still up to the players to chase, to tackle, to shepherd and mark.I personnally favour the old style man up NO EASY KICKS, that is the sort of game play I was expecting from Neeld, we look a long way away from that side. Regardless of the gameplan the 22 out there should be trying there best and so far I dont really see that sort of effort from some of the players, which is probably why I wont be seeing some of those players again. A change in attitude would be a significantly improvement for a few of these guys.

[Hardnut 327]

I dont think we can keep using young side as an excuse, most teams have young players in their side and they are capable of getting the ball, how many young GWC players played all over us when we played them. I think RobbieF has it right we have had a lot of low draft picks that have gone no where. I doubt they were the wrong players I just suspect that we dont teach them properly, didnt install the right attitude and work ethic. This years melbourne team really did0nt do enough to help each out, we look for man on his own for the easy kick and get punished pretty quickly when we are sloppy and turn it over, I still cringe when i see some of our backmen get the ball and start looking across the field. Coaches can only do so much for teams its still up to the players to chase, to tackle, to shepherd and mark.I personnally favour the old style man up NO EASY KICKS, that is the sort of game play I was expecting from Neeld, we look a long way away from that side. Regardless of the gameplan the 22 out there should be trying there best and so far I dont really see that sort of effort from some of the players, which is probably why I wont be seeing some of those players again. A change in attitude would be a significantly improvement for a few of these guys.

You have nailed it Deecisive, when you say MFC didn't teach the young players well enough. Having said that, I agree that it's up to the players to make the effort. However, that also comes back to coaching - players should be empowered to achieve their best through their own self respect - they should not be treated like robots.