That's not a problem - that can be fixed.

The cats had the same problem up to Round 5 of 2007.

That's not a problem - that can be fixed.

The cats had the same problem up to Round 5 of 2007.

It hasn't been fixed for 5 years, to me thats a big problem and this doesn't come down to the quality of players this is purely a structure and the willingness of our players to do the 1 percenters

5 years ago we had a completely different list.

It's barely relevant.

The cats still had the same problem too.

5 years ago we had a completely different list.

It's barely relevant.

The cats still had the same problem too.

It doesn't matter who is on your list if you can't get simple structure into your set ups you will get beaten.

It doesn't matter who is on your list if you can't get simple structure into your set ups you will get beaten.

Right.........

Your argument continues to change.

Originally it was about how our "players don't work for each other."

You do realise we are trying to introduce a new structure vastly different to what we have had in the past?

And we're only 2 games into doing that?

Ross Lyon, regarded by many as the best tactical mind in the game, and one of the best coaches, still took seasons to get St Kilda to play the way he wanted.

There's a multitude of other examples, but you can do the research.

Simply, people keep saying it because it's true - it will take time.

Biggest problem for us is that it's more of an outside mids draft.

Could be a blessing in disguise. To early to tell really, but with Jones, Trengove, Gysberts, Viney, McKenzie, Magner we have the insides mids to compliment some speedy skillful outside mids if available.

Since the departure of Ottens, Geelong don't have one player on their list that has come from another club. Like Ottens, hopefully Clark can become a vital cog in our ascendency up the ladder, but, in the main, I'd rather grow our own. Dangerfield has a ton of talent, but he's yet to show he'll be a quality mid. He doesn't pick up cheap uncontested possessions and doesn't play like a natural midfielder. This is his fifth year, so I'll watch with interest.

Like RPFC, I believe it's your senior core that determines the quality of your side, as well as greatly influencing the output of inexperienced players, which is the reason Geelong's 8 players with less than 30 games on Monday weren't overly exposed. Those same 8 players would have a torrid time in our current side - unless your completely defeatist by players wearing red and blue and assume we always draft poorly. Your senior group, which is usually your leadership group, determines the culture at a club, so it's far easier for rookie players to be absorbed into the structures and systems without the issues we're facing.

Unlike one of the more hysterical posters on here, I do rate the value of early draft picks. I believe we do have the programs in place now to develop them, not withstanding the impediment of a dearth of quality senior players showing the way. How our team needs a Selwood, Bartel, Judd, or Luke Hodge; players that stand up when the team needs it, such as Garry Lyon going into the middle many years ago when a game was in the balance. But that will come.

I'm in the camp of drafting the two very best mids possible in this draft and in all liklihood they'll be top 10 draft picks. They'll be able to walk into the club with Viney and, along with Trengove, have the opportunity to be a dominant force in 4-5 years time. Unfortunately, patience isn't a virtue for diehard Demon supporters, it's now a prerequisite, because it may take a few years to play finals, but when we get there there's every chance we'll be on the verge of real success.

Given a choice of another 3 years without finals, but having a genuine chance next time we're there (rather than just making up the numbers) sates my appetite. Others may think it's wishful thinking and that there are no guarantees we'll be any good taking the long-term drafting approach, which, on the surface, seems to have already failed us, and I recognise that, but for me it still gives us the best shot - and I'm not as deflated with the youth on our list as some. Being selfish, I may only have one shot left at seeing a flag, because in theory a side should win one only every 18 years and we know that's not a given, if we miss a turn I may not be around, so I'll take a bit more pain in the process if it helps long-term. Geelong's amazing success was built on the quality they were able to glean from the 1999 and 2001 drafts. And yes, some amazing Father/Sons.

If this draft is all it's cracked up to be (best ever) we'll get 3 gun mids walking through the door in 6 months time and the way kids come through the TAC system these days you won't have to wait long for an impact. Rather than all the heat being on Viney to suddenly propel our midfield there'll be 3 of them sharing the burden, plus Trengove. That excites me.

Awesome post. I don't think enough evidence exists to categorically dismiss the benefits of bottoming out and basing a climb up the ladder around a series of high draft picks. Losing Scully certainly wasn't part of the plan but if we are to have an ordinary (ladder position) year coming to terms with the approach and gameplan of a new coach and we only finish above 2 or 3 teams then we will be incredibly well placed to fill the remaining pieces of our premiership jigsaw. As much as I've challenged the cultural ramifications of tanking, I'm convinced that high draft picks are the most probable means of finding the midfield class and out and out elite talent that we will need to win a premiership. Losing Scully and the perceived slow development of Watts and Blease is no reason for us to ignore the benefits of high draft picks. Frawley and Garland are approaching their peak. Watts and Cook will hopefully be there within the next few seasons. We know midfielders develop more quickly and if we get our picks right then the 2015 - 2020 window should be an exciting time.

BH summed up the situation really well. We're all tired of the wait but the reality is the re-building needs one last phase and we're fortunate to be in a position to do so with quality draft picks. Whilst the addition of Clark is important structurally, building from within is clearly the best path. We rightly bemoan our lack of leadership but it's important that we don't hang on to our older players for the sake of experience and perceived leadership. Green, Davey and in my opinion Moloney and Sylvia should all go at the end of the season. I'd trade terminate Davey's contract and cop the payout. I'd trade the latter two in the hope of improving our draft position further. The departures of Johnstone and McLean were the correct play by the club and I think we should try to cash in with Sylvia. We're all seduced by his end product but his defensive skills are ordinary and his off-field antics aren't needed. Moloney wouldn't hold the same currency but I'd test the market with him as well. We've taken the bold step of naming two very young co-captains. I think we should back them in and cut the dead wood.

If BH is right when he suggests that young midfielders groomed through the TAC are more ready than ever then hopefully we'll be enjoying our footy again sooner rather than later.

Totally agree with all suggested moves.

Agree with your logic here - the best way for us to attract players is under this idea, that we can give them the star billing where at their current club they are the understudy.

This strategy has paid dividends for Sydney. Look at Josh Kennedy, Ben McGlynn, Rhyce Shaw and Marty Mattner.

I'm not sure exactly who, if anyone, will be these kinds of options at the end of the year, but instead of going for the out and out stars, we should look to these kinds of players.

As for what we have now: Grimes and Tapscott should move into the midfield. Bail needs to play predominantly on the wing.

They're successfull because they bring in battlers & good NQR's, into a club with Solid Leadership.

We have the opposite problem. We have to Invent that solid leadership. Create It.

Wellingham was BOG against us last QB when Swan and Thomas were out - do you really think that Gysberts, Blease, Strauss and Tapscott are superior players to Wellingham, Beams and Sidebottom - that's the level of pick you're so worried about "wasting". You're going to end up with another 18 yo.

Much rather use the picks on 2x18yo plus Viney, that's just my opinion. I think the up side is far greater and I also think that Strauss, Gysberts and Tapscott will more than hold their own with Beams and Sidebottom stalling in their development and Wellingham, like him but would rather take my chances in a good draft. Maybe a player trade if anything but these guys are definitely not first round pick trades.