You seem to have no understanding of leadership whatsoever.

Please explain to me what relevance being a good tap ruckman has with leadership ability?

haha! Are you serious? Being in control of centre bounces in a tight game. Knowing how your players will react during a contest. That's leadership. Personally i don't give dam how a player speaks in the Media, that is far over rated IMO. Although Mark has no problems in that area. Mark is now a senior player so i would want him in the leadership group.

i had my thoughts on leadership challenged quite a bit when the Irish toured out here at the end of last year.

When they first arrived and began to do all the Pressers every Australian was bemused that the Irish Captain, Stephen Cluxton, refused to do any media work.

I remember thinking how peculiar and unbecoming that was for a leader of any organization.

As soon as i saw him playing, everything was thrown out the window. i take into account the irrelevance of International Rules, but he still sticks in my head as one of the most out and out leaders i have seen play sport.

Lets not put too much emphasis on media performance

haha! Are you serious? Being in control of centre bounces in a tight game. Knowing how your players will react during a contest. That's leadership. Personally i don't give dam how a player speaks in the Media, that is far over rated IMO. Although Mark has no problems in that area. Mark is now a senior player so i would want him in the leadership group.

Again, none of what you mention has anything to do with leadership...

Again, none of what you mention has anything to do with leadership...

Yeah right. Coming from someone who wants Frank Grimes to be captain..."because he's a man.."

haha! Are you serious? Being in control of centre bounces in a tight game. Knowing how your players will react during a contest. That's leadership. Personally i don't give dam how a player speaks in the Media, that is far over rated IMO. Although Mark has no problems in that area. Mark is now a senior player so i would want him in the leadership group.

I agree Wyl . A ruckman constantly winning tap outs automatically becomes a leader on the field . Rucking is often under-rated . A winning ruckman can and often does lift the whole team . A lot of good ruckmen over the years have been captain or vice-captain . I've often heard a ruckman referred to as an "On field General"

Edited January 15, 201213 yr by Macca

I agree Wyl . A ruckman constantly winning tap outs automatically becomes a leader on the field . Rucking is often under-rated . A winning ruckman can and often does lift the whole team . A lot of good ruckmen over the years have been captain or vice-captain . I've often heard a ruckman referred to as an "On field General"

spot on Macca.

Big Carl wasn't Catain/Coach for nothing.

A ruckman can dictate so much of a game, as our President did during his career.

Yeah right. Coming from someone who wants Frank Grimes to be captain..."because he's a man.."

He's more of a man than Trengove.

And it's only one tiny facet of why.

But keep misrepresenting others' opinions if it's the only way you can engage in debate...

I agree Wyl . A ruckman constantly winning tap outs automatically becomes a leader on the field . Rucking is often under-rated . A winning ruckman can and often does lift the whole team . A lot of good ruckmen over the years have been captain or vice-captain . I've often heard a ruckman referred to as an "On field General"

spot on Macca.

Big Carl wasn't Catain/Coach for nothing.

A ruckman can dictate so much of a game, as our President did during his career.

He's more of a man than Trengove.

And it's only one tiny facet of why.

But keep misrepresenting others' opinions if it's the only way you can engage in debate...

I am not mirepresenting anything. It's what you wrote 25

spot on Macca.

Big Carl wasn't Catain/Coach for nothing.

A ruckman can dictate so much of a game, as our President did during his career.

So Carl was captain/coach because he was a ruckman, was he?

Cos that's the same reasoning you're using for Jamar.

Using that logic all ruckmen should be in their respective club's leadership group.

Not sure that's correct, WYL.

I said that relative to the young man Grimes, Trengove is a kid.

And that is only a small facet of why Grimes is better equipped to be captain.

I've even clarified it for you.

He's more of a man than Trengove.

Why ?

I keep reading your disparaging comments regarding Trengove's manhood and in a subsequent post to the one I'm responding to you refer to Trengove as a "Kid". Not only do I disagree, I find it very tedious. Trengove has shown through his courage and quality play that he's far from a Kid. Do you realise how tough it is to play AFL footy ? Do you not see how hard it is for some young players to adapt ? Do you not see the way Trengove puts his head over the ball and the courage it takes to grab some of the marks that he does ? Do you not see other more senior players gravitate to him at training ? Do you not see the vocal encouragement he offers others ? Did you not see the way he handled himself in interview after interview regarding Scully last year ? Did you not see that he was almost the face of the club during dark times ? The maturity he showed as a 19 year old was extraordinary.

You're pretty easy to read, so I expect that you'll trot out his birthdate as the reasons for your remarks, but I couldn't disagree more. You're an anachronism if you think he's suddenly a man on his 21st birthday. I hope someone that posts here doesn't mind me sharing this, but Trengove was advised last year not to sign an extension with Melbourne. He was advised to wait because the was club in turmoil and a new coach had to be found. Trengove said no and was adamant that he had to sign the week he did because the club needed his support and it needed the positive publicity that would follow. He signed less than two weeks after the 186 point debacle at Geelong and in the aftermath of Bailey being sacked. I don't call that the actions of a "Kid" and as I've already stated (it needs repeating) I couldn't disagree with you more.

Edited January 15, 201213 yr by Ben-Hur

So Carl was captain/coach because he was a ruckman, was he?

Cos that's the same reasoning you're using for Jamar.

Using that logic all ruckmen should be in their respective club's leadership group.

Not sure that's correct, WYL.

I said that relative to the young man Grimes, Trengove is a kid.

And that is only a small facet of why Grimes is better equipped to be captain.

I've even clarified it for you.

fair go 25 i rate you higher than that. There were many reasons why the Big Carl was our Captain Coach you and i both know that, but being a ruckman just made it easier and more direct. He was at the coalface at ball ups and around the ground.

You seem to have no understanding of leadership whatsoever.

Please explain to me what relevance being a good tap ruckman has with leadership ability?

Again, none of what you mention has anything to do with leadership...

He's more of a man than Trengove.

And it's only one tiny facet of why.

But keep misrepresenting others' opinions if it's the only way you can engage in debate...

So Carl was captain/coach because he was a ruckman, was he?

Cos that's the same reasoning you're using for Jamar.

Using that logic all ruckmen should be in their respective club's leadership group.

Not sure that's correct, WYL.

I said that relative to the young man Grimes, Trengove is a kid.

And that is only a small facet of why Grimes is better equipped to be captain.

I've even clarified it for you.

The Campbell Brown of posters. Always attacks the man and never the ball. ANGRY individual!!

If age is the point of difference, Green is a shoe in.

Beside 2 individual awards from previous administrations, denial of injury plagued injuries and assessment of who is the man and who isnt, i would not, do not, take the word from Lutz who shows no leadership qualities him or herself

Edited January 15, 201213 yr by Demonsterative

Green is a 'shoe-in' and Trengove a 'monty'...

Do we have an odds-on favourite or dead-set frontrunner?

Well, we have plenty of frontrunners actually...

FCS

Threads like this make me really disappointed in our supporter base. What does a player have to do to earn the slightest piece of respect at this club?

Brent Moloney - lifelong Melbourne supporter, forces his way onto Geelong's list 'the hard way' - through the rookie list. As a second year player he features in their finals campaign before coming our way in exchange for a first round draft pick. Battles the dreaded osteitis pubis that stalls his career completely for 3 seasons. Despite this, becomes starting midfielder. Earns the respect of his club, going beyond the call, not just on-field but as a clubman and becomes vice-captain. Even after losing it through an off-field incident, he earns it back 'the hard way' through dedication and game day performance. Wins the best and fairest and finishes ninth in the brownlow. Above all else, this bloke is hard as nails and has never at any stage taken a backwards step on the football field or done anything other than what is best for his coach and the side.

Anyone with the slightest clue about how a football club operates would realise you give this man the captaincy without a moment's hesitation. Especially given there is nobody else on the list who comes remotely close to ticking all the boxes that the player in discussion has. However, most of you operate under the mindset of a desperate minnow club, and want to give it a bloke that has 2 years experience and - while clearly a potential star - has in no way earned it, and as we have all learned 'the hard way' could be off at the end of the year for whatever club can arrange an under-the-table payday for him. Not to mention he is one of a long line of Melbourne players that bolted out of the gate, and the vast majority never became anything. It's the exact same cretins spouting this garbage who wanted Brock McLean captain after the 2006 elimination final. That worked out well didn't it?

Fortunately I know damn well those in charge at the club would never allow such an embarrassing injustice to occur - because they know how football clubs operate - and Moloney will be the next captain of the MFC, like he was born and bred to be.

When Trengove, Grimes, Watts etc get to the point they can list an equivalent CV than Moloney, they will have earnt it.

Come again ... C & B?

TRENNERS YOU BEEEEAUTTY!!!!