2011 was an abject failure and large part of that was the leadership group.

Green must not be captain as Bailey must not be coach.

The kids have to take over the place as they are the 'future.'

But I don't think they are the future, they are obviously the present.

So get the kids to share it, or poach a captain from another club.

Of this years leaders, Jones can easily hold his head up, and for most of the year Moloney can do the same.

I think sacking the captain after 1 bad year is a knee-jerk reaction. His 2009 form warrants the captain title, but obviously, his 2010 form doesn't. But are we in a position as a Club to pick a captain each year on form alone? Even if Green has another shocker, which I have high hopes wont happen, we are not pushing next for top 4 stuff in 2012 anyway, so it wont hurt us too much.

To expect a group of kids to be able to take on such responsibility is dangerous. Some will rise, some will do a "Greeny"!

Of this years leaders, Jones can easily hold his head up, and for most of the year Moloney can do the same.

I think sacking the captain after 1 bad year is a knee-jerk reaction. His 2009 form warrants the captain title, but obviously, his 2010 form doesn't. But are we in a position as a Club to pick a captain each year on form alone? Even if Green has another shocker, which I have high hopes wont happen, we are not pushing next for top 4 stuff in 2012 anyway, so it wont hurt us too much.

To expect a group of kids to be able to take on such responsibility is dangerous. Some will rise, some will do a "Greeny"!

It's not about form.

It never was.

His body language is disgraceful, and his inability to realise when or even how to motivate others is troubling to say the least.

My problem is not his form, it's his inability to give the team anything when he is out of form.

That isn't a contradiction - he gives goals and structure when he is in form, he gives nothing when out of form.

He doen't play like a captain, so why should he be given the title.

I'm harsh, but this isn't good enough.

The new coach should get the kids to take over, and that will mean the LG and possibly the captaincy.

It's not about form.

It never was.

His body language is disgraceful, and his inability to realise when or even how to motivate others is troubling to say the least.

My problem is not his form, it's his inability to give the team anything when he is out of form.

That isn't a contradiction - he gives goals and structure when he is in form, he gives nothing when out of form.

He doen't play like a captain, so why should he be given the title.

I'm harsh, but this isn't good enough.

The new coach should get the kids to take over, and that will mean the LG and possibly the captaincy.

I just wonder what a new year, a new coach, and an extensive review of what went wrong will change Brad's attitude next year.

I can see where you're coming from, and I have at times wondered if that (young leadership group/captain) is the best option. But I can't help but think that we still need an experienced player at the helm for at least one more season, and have no doubt Greeny will improve significantly as a captain next year.

But, we can only see what happens out on the field in terms of leadership - if only we knew what happened behind the scenes.

I just wonder what a new year, a new coach, and an extensive review of what went wrong will change Brad's attitude next year.

I can see where you're coming from, and I have at times wondered if that (young leadership group/captain) is the best option. But I can't help but think that we still need an experienced player at the helm for at least one more season, and have no doubt Greeny will improve significantly as a captain next year.

But, we can only see what happens out on the field in terms of leadership - if only we knew what happened behind the scenes.

Our current captain does not have a contract for 2012 so that may make it hard for him to be captain.

The gut feeling I am getting is no one is rushing to give him one.

Yes it would be interesting to know what happened behind closed doors.

I suspect the dumping of Jnr. and Bruce had a bigger impact than I thought.

Leaving all that aside I cannot see a leader amongst our senior players.

gotta be Beamer.

Big man who leads by example from the first bounce

and more importantly.......

HAS A BIT OF PERSONALITY

UP THE FRIGGIN DEEES

Can't remember if I have posted on here, but I'm leaning toward this set-up for 2012;

Captain: Green

Vice Captain: Moloney

Deputy Vice Captain: Jones

Leadership Group: Green, Beamer, Jones, Frawley, Trengove, Watts.

While I am as frustrated/disappointed as anyone with Green's performance this season, I believe it would be pretty ordinary from the Club's point of view if they were to strip him of his title after 1 season.

Gee Billy ,You've really stuck your neck out there .Do you think it will work?

Of this years leaders, Jones can easily hold his head up, and for most of the year Moloney can do the same.

I think sacking the captain after 1 bad year is a knee-jerk reaction. His 2009 form warrants the captain title, but obviously, his 2010 form doesn't. But are we in a position as a Club to pick a captain each year on form alone? Even if Green has another shocker, which I have high hopes wont happen, we are not pushing next for top 4 stuff in 2012 anyway, so it wont hurt us too much.

To expect a group of kids to be able to take on such responsibility is dangerous. Some will rise, some will do a "Greeny"!

+1

gotta be Beamer.

Big man who leads by example from the first bounce

and more importantly.......

HAS A BIT OF PERSONALITY

UP THE FRIGGIN DEEES

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, heard him talk. Mumps and Bruises is enough for me to say no. Keep him as VC

Bumps

Gee Billy ,You've really stuck your neck out there .Do you think it will work?

Ha ha, thanks CJJ, but, I can't really remember the last time any Club made massive wholesale changes to their leadership group, especially in the way some people are suggesting we should.

The main change is getting rid of 2 Vice Captains, and totally removing both those guys from the leadership group. Davey doesn't handle the extra responsibility of an officail title, he should be left as the indig' leader and that's it. Rivers' on-field leadership, in my view, was more disappointing than anyone this year. In a number of games, his body language was a disgrace. The game against Collingwood topped it off for me - he put the white flag up (more than what some claim Davey did in Round 2), was getting a hiding so he ran off the ground. Pathetic.

To crucify Green through all this is understandble, but I just don't think is the right move. In 2010, his leadership qualities were obvious, and as such, was voted by his peers as the next leader of the Club. BG is a very proud footballer, who would be just as disappointed as the rest of us with his efforts in 2011. It would be expected that he does a lot of leadership work over the summer, and we get to see the Green of 2010 taking the field next season.

The other guy I left out of the leadership group is Grimes. The amount that he gets pumped up in here is scary. From all reports, he has leadership qualities that not many have, but FFS, I just want to see him play footy for the time being. My view is by leaving Grimes out makes some statement of "work your ass off, get your body right, play consistent footy, and the seat will be there for you". At the moment, he is bloody near getting a free ride which is the attitude that I want changed at this footy club.

My view is by leaving Grimes out makes some statement of "work your ass off, get your body right, play consistent footy, and the seat will be there for you". At the moment, he is bloody near getting a free ride which is the attitude that I want changed at this footy club.

You would be giving a free ride to the others in the current leadership group to keep them there.

I don't care that no other club has had to make wholesale changes or that we haven't had to in the past.

The current situation is unacceptable, and if one believes that the future is all the kids 23 and under - then why the charade that we have seen in 2011?

Give them the reigns now.

You would be giving a free ride to the others in the current leadership group to keep them there.

I don't care that no other club has had to make wholesale changes or that we haven't had to in the past.

The current situation is unacceptable, and if one believes that the future is all the kids 23 and under - then why the charade that we have seen in 2011?

Give them the reigns now.

I agree it is not as though we have a choice.

The majority of the senior group are not worth a pinch of bill goat poo.

You would be giving a free ride to the others in the current leadership group to keep them there.

I don't care that no other club has had to make wholesale changes or that we haven't had to in the past.

The current situation is unacceptable, and if one believes that the future is all the kids 23 and under - then why the charade that we have seen in 2011?

Give them the reigns now.

Of the leadership group that I proposed, I have included (left in) the likely top 2 in our B&F, so form-wise they didn't have a bad year, and I would expect most at the Club say that Moloney and Jones' leaderhsip wasn't that bad either. Moloney was made to re-earn his spot after his early year incident, and from all reports, he did it very well.

I've included Frawley (23 years old), Watts (20), Trengove (20) and Jones (currently 23). 4 out of 6 that meet your criteria, with 2 senior players, I think it's a terrific spread. If 2012 is like 2011 for Green, then he will be replaced by the next Under 23 that puts his hand up like Watts and Trengove did this year.

I'll put it this way, what happens to the player in the "Under 23 only" leadeership group that has a bad year next year? Hopefully it wont happen, but what if Trengove (in his 3rd season) can't shake the tags that he is likely to get each week and has a crappy season? We have seen our team lacking in experienced players, but the handful that we have, we want to get rid of all of them out of the leadership group. We want to demote our most senior player, even after the uproar of how we treated our senior players in 2010?

It's an opinion-based arguement, but I just can't see the logic of stripping all over 23's of their leadership title, especially when a majority on here hope that Moloney will be the next skipper?

Of the leadership group that I proposed, I have included (left in) the likely top 2 in our B&F, so form-wise they didn't have a bad year, and I would expect most at the Club say that Moloney and Jones' leaderhsip wasn't that bad either. Moloney was made to re-earn his spot after his early year incident, and from all reports, he did it very well.

I've included Frawley (23 years old), Watts (20), Trengove (20) and Jones (currently 23). 4 out of 6 that meet your criteria, with 2 senior players, I think it's a terrific spread. If 2012 is like 2011 for Green, then he will be replaced by the next Under 23 that puts his hand up like Watts and Trengove did this year.

I'll put it this way, what happens to the player in the "Under 23 only" leadeership group that has a bad year next year? Hopefully it wont happen, but what if Trengove (in his 3rd season) can't shake the tags that he is likely to get each week and has a crappy season? We have seen our team lacking in experienced players, but the handful that we have, we want to get rid of all of them out of the leadership group. We want to demote our most senior player, even after the uproar of how we treated our senior players in 2010?

It's an opinion-based arguement, but I just can't see the logic of stripping all over 23's of their leadership title, especially when a majority on here hope that Moloney will be the next skipper?

29.41% hardly seems a ringing endoresment.

As well the new coach might have an entirely different idea to all of us.

Seems like everything is on hold ( quite rightly IMO )until he arrives.

Do you think Green will get another contract?

He probably deserves a one year job for services rendered but I have a gut feeling he may not.

Or perhaps he may not want one at the dees.

Bruce has shown there is life after Melbourne and a move will be his last chance to play into September.

29.41% hardly seems a ringing endoresment.

As well the new coach might have an entirely different idea to all of us.

Seems like everything is on hold ( quite rightly IMO )until he arrives.

Do you think Green will get another contract?

He probably deserves a one year job for services rendered but I have a gut feeling he may not.

Or perhaps he may not want one at the dees.

Bruce has shown there is life after Melbourne and a move will be his last chance to play into September.

Sorry Old Dee - didn't check the %. There is still a lot of support for Moloney, not quite as much as JT, but daylight between the next favoured.

I'm sure the new coach will have his own ideas, but I can't see at least Moloney not being in it (wipes out our 23 and under rule). Even if we get a current assistant coach (ie Sanderson), most out there will be coming from successful clubs that all have that even spread of young and mature. Where we stuffed up this season is bascially putting our senior players in, which was confused with senior leaders. While 2011 wont really support my case, I still have confidence in Moloney and Green as being our senior leaders.

My thoughts on Green's contract status - he will accept a 2 year deal. The difference between he and Cam Bruce is that Green is captain and I believe he will seek redemption for a poor season. Getting rid of Green is a total knee-jerk reaction.

I have to ask - what is on hold? We have offered Scully a new contract, we offered Syliva a new contract, and wasn't there an article saying we were getting closer with Martin and Green? I don't think the footy club shuts down just because we don't have a coach...

Sorry Old Dee - didn't check the %. There is still a lot of support for Moloney, not quite as much as JT, but daylight between the next favoured.

I'm sure the new coach will have his own ideas, but I can't see at least Moloney not being in it (wipes out our 23 and under rule). Even if we get a current assistant coach (ie Sanderson), most out there will be coming from successful clubs that all have that even spread of young and mature. Where we stuffed up this season is bascially putting our senior players in, which was confused with senior leaders. While 2011 wont really support my case, I still have confidence in Moloney and Green as being our senior leaders.

My thoughts on Green's contract status - he will accept a 2 year deal. The difference between he and Cam Bruce is that Green is captain and I believe he will seek redemption for a poor season. Getting rid of Green is a total knee-jerk reaction.

I have to ask - what is on hold? We have offered Scully a new contract, we offered Syliva a new contract, and wasn't there an article saying we were getting closer with Martin and Green? I don't think the footy club shuts down just because we don't have a coach...

No neither do I Billy but I was making the observation that some of these decisions might get put on hold until a new coach arrives.

I think I was meaning the captain / leadership group etc.

Back to Green do you really think he will get a 2 year offer.

I thought there was a rule that over 30 it was one year at a time. I may be wrong but that was my understanding.

I suppose you can only move if some one wants you and there may well be no offers for DG after his form this year.

No neither do I Billy but I was making the observation that some of these decisions might get put on hold until a new coach arrives.

I think I was meaning the captain / leadership group etc.

Back to Green do you really think he will get a 2 year offer.

I thought there was a rule that over 30 it was one year at a time. I may be wrong but that was my understanding.

I suppose you can only move if some one wants you and there may well be no offers for DG after his form this year.

I think that 30+ rule was a Bailey idea (could be totally incorrect), but I wouldn't be surprised if this was no longer around due to the backlash from our dealings with Junior, etc last year. And, IF we can get Lyon or Malthouse, they have history of picking up mature-aged recruits.

If I made the big decisions, I'd be offering Green 2 years, no hesitation. Next year, it's going to be another tough year - we will need his experience again (that's frightening isn't it!!!???). The year after, 2013, all of a sudden he may not be required to play "that" role, as hopefully others underneath him have stepped right up. I think a 2013, 32 year old Brad Green, playing forward pocket with a better, more developed midfield will be quite a handy option.

We need Green to step up next year. Reality is, we NEED him.

I have been unfair to you Billy - I have been distracted.

We are talking past each other.

My desire is to have the LG decided and made up of the U/23 brigade, but they can elect a captain from the entire group.

That may be Moloney, I doubt it will be Green.

Green was given the captaincy through the FD and a vote from the players - it should happen similarily next year.

Maxwell has to 'win' his leadership position every year and he doesn't want it any other way.

Let's do that for our LG and Captain.

...with some altered parameters.

I have been unfair to you Billy - I have been distracted.

We are talking past each other.

My desire is to have the LG decided and made up of the U/23 brigade, but they can elect a captain from the entire group.

That may be Moloney, I doubt it will be Green.

Green was given the captaincy through the FD and a vote from the players - it should happen similarily next year.

Maxwell has to 'win' his leadership position every year and he doesn't want it any other way.

Let's do that for our LG and Captain.

...with some altered parameters.

I hope you were not letting work get in the way rpfc

I hope you were not letting work get in the way rpfc

DC would not be happy...

Apologies.

Green should continue with it. Beamer the next captain after him and then maybe JT or JG (if he can stay on the park). I don't think we will have a shortage of leaders in the future but until then lets not try to eat our own!

Green should continue with it. Beamer the next captain after him and then maybe JT or JG (if he can stay on the park). I don't think we will have a shortage of leaders in the future but until then lets not try to eat our own!

The danager in this Pello is that BG was struggling to justify his position in the team for a large part of the year.

If that should continue in 2012 we will have the distraction of the media beating up on melbourne for playing him.

It also cannot be good if the playing group starts to think he is not justfying his spot in the team.

IMO there is far more danager in keeping him as Captain compared to taking the job off him.

Scully.

Based on recent history; if the powers-that-be (players, footy dept or some combination of both) at one of either Geelong or Collingwood had to rate our list and select our captain, who would they appoint?

I personally think it would be somewhere between a James Frawley or a Nathan Jones. Not the prettiest or the most skilled, but they put in - week in week out. They play with passion, and more often than not, they win their position.

Sounds like a Maxwell, Harley or (to a lesser extent) Ling type appointment. Not sure what either would be like vocally amongst the group though.

Of this years leaders, Jones can easily hold his head up, and for most of the year Moloney can do the same.

I think sacking the captain after 1 bad year is a knee-jerk reaction. His 2009 form warrants the captain title, but obviously, his 2010 form doesn't. But are we in a position as a Club to pick a captain each year on form alone? Even if Green has another shocker, which I have high hopes wont happen, we are not pushing next for top 4 stuff in 2012 anyway, so it wont hurt us too much.

To expect a group of kids to be able to take on such responsibility is dangerous. Some will rise, some will do a "Greeny"!

i can't recall a melbourne captian in my lifetime as poor as brad was this year. great player, great 2010 season, brave, ticked all the boxes to lead up until this season.I do not rejoice in his failure.

....but we must move on