But as far as lacking passion and commitment as you stated, that is completely off the mark

No it isn't.

You can't pick and choose when you have the passion to play for the Dees, the committment to the cause to run end to end against teams with good players.

Yeah, he looks great when he knashes his teeth at the opposition, and yells at his teammates, but that doesn't make you a leader.

When he can lift against better sides when we need him - then a leader he will be.

Let's face it - Beamer is a nice bloke and can play well offensively against weaker teams, but he's not the sharpest bloke.

Like a lot of ill-informed supporters, he probably thinks that what he does now is leadership.

Dear god, please someone show him a REAL leader.

''Yeah, he'd probably be thinking he's not in great form,'' Viney said.

''He sets really high standards and that can weigh on you too.''

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/viney-catches-coaching-bug-20110828-1jgmh.html#ixzz1WN53s3Zj

Despite this assessment by Todd I thought Tom was very good yesterday. 11 contested possession, 6 tackles and 6 clearances is a pretty good day's work - particularly since he still hardly ever starts in the centre square - baffling.

I think it's his size an strength holding him back.

Scully just needs a proper preseason to sort his body out.

It's hard to argue with because it's just so outrageously non-sensical. Honesty RR, if you think asking a kid "so are you going to stay with the club no matter what offers come your way?" then there's just no helping you. You're going to get the answer you want to hear, whether it's the truth or not. No 18 year old kid looking to fulfil his lifelong dream is going to say "yeah, I'm just going to sign up with whoever offers me the most money" (and not just from Scully, any kid would say that). Firstly because getting drafted is the most important thing to them, and secondly there's absolutely no way an 18 year old kid has the foresight to know how he's going to feel when he's put in such a compromising position two years down the track.

There's just no way you could screen the difference between Scully and Martin's positions on this kind of matter. If you know of a way then I'm all ears, but just "asking the question" just ain't going to cut it. Chinese water torture perhaps?

But there's more that can be done than simply asking that one straight out question. Talk to the parents as well, see what they want for their son. Assess what their values are. Was that done? I'm not so sure it was.

Skillful interviewers have creative ways of ascertaining where the truth lies (no pun intended).

In addition there was the option of taking a hard line and insisting on a 3-year deal from the very beginning. The same deal Trengove accepted.

With GW$ on the horizon, we might've made a risk assessment that the player turning down 3-years just got too many alarm bells ringing.

With better intelligence and that approach, we could have come to the more correct conclusion, in my opinion, of drafting Martin.

Again, huge call. But these guys get paid to make them.

It's hard to argue with because it's just so outrageously non-sensical. Honesty RR, if you think asking a kid "so are you going to stay with the club no matter what offers come your way?" then there's just no helping you. You're going to get the answer you want to hear, whether it's the truth or not. No 18 year old kid looking to fulfil his lifelong dream is going to say "yeah, I'm just going to sign up with whoever offers me the most money" (and not just from Scully, any kid would say that). Firstly because getting drafted is the most important thing to them, and secondly there's absolutely no way an 18 year old kid has the foresight to know how he's going to feel when he's put in such a compromising position two years down the track.

There's just no way you could screen the difference between Scully and Martin's positions on this kind of matter. If you know of a way then I'm all ears, but just "asking the question" just ain't going to cut it. Chinese water torture perhaps?

And as said previously, he was so far and away a stand out as number one pick - the only knock was his disposal - not his attitude. Was touted at number one for at least 12-18 months previous.

Retrospective and hindsight is so hard to argue with. Maybe part of our questioning going forward for all potential draftees is "you will be offered $1M a year as a third year footballer - do you stay with us or go ?" - " I'd go Mr Prendergast" - scratch him off the list.

But there's more that can be done than simply asking that one straight out question. Talk to the parents as well, see what they want for their son. Assess what their values are. Was that done? I'm not so sure it was.

Skillful interviewers have creative ways of ascertaining where the truth lies (no pun intended).

In addition there was the option of taking a hard line and insisting on a 3-year deal from the very beginning. The same deal Trengove accepted.

With GW$ on the horizon, we might've made a risk assessment that the player turning down 3-years just got to many alarm bells ringing.

With better intelligence and that approach, we could have come to the more correct conclusion, in my opinion, of drafting Martin.

Again, huge call. But these guys get paid to make them.

You're living in CIA dreamland. A more reasonable assessment is that it was to our advantage having Scully and Trengove coming OOC in alternating years.

You're living in CIA dreamland. A more reasonable assessment is that it was to our advantage having Scully and Trengove coming OOC in alternating years.

That's exactly how most supporters saw it at the time, in spite of RR's revisionist history...

You're living in CIA dreamland. A more reasonable assessment is that it was to our advantage having Scully and Trengove coming OOC in alternating years.

I guess we'll see who was right in a couple of weeks.

Let's face it - Beamer is a nice bloke and can play well offensively against weaker teams, but he's not the sharpest bloke.

Like a lot of ill-informed supporters, he probably thinks that what he does now is leadership.

Dear god, please someone show him a REAL leader.

Poignant, succint, Accurate.

I guess we'll see who was right in a couple of weeks.

Even if Scully does leave, it won't make 90% of the things you've said correct.

The deep bone bruising?

Directly out of the mouth of Cameron Schwab yesterday.

Thanks, was that to you personally or was it public (radio, tv).

I must say I've been completely underwhelmed by Tom since he's come to the club but there could be a thousand reasons for his poor form. What I do know is that if GWS and MFC are fighting so hard for him and offering him so much money there are some very smart footy people prepared to back him and consider him a very short priced favourite to become elite.

You look at the players that have had long lay offs with injury, Tom had a limited Pre season and missed a fair chunk of games mid year. Young players can't miss that much footy and hyave outstanding years. Jamar has struggled since returning from injury, Davey still hasn't had a kick since returning from injury.

Give this guy a break he will be an outstanding footballer just hope it is with us.

You can't pick and choose when you have the passion to play for the Dees, the committment to the cause to run end to end against teams with good players.

I actually think you're being harsh.

I think Beamer gives the same level of commitment each week but he's just not that good and when he is tagged or plays on someone better than him he just gets beaten.

He's perhaps the most consistent player in our team. He wins when he should and he gets beaten when you expect him to. He'd make a terrific 3 or 4th mid in another team but he's just not good enough to be number one.

Thanks, was that to you personally or was it public (radio, tv).

I must say I've been completely underwhelmed by Tom since he's come to the club but there could be a thousand reasons for his poor form. What I do know is that if GWS and MFC are fighting so hard for him and offering him so much money there are some very smart footy people prepared to back him and consider him a very short priced favourite to become elite.

Or ... there are some very smart footy people who understand the need to make it appear that he's a short-priced favourite to become elite.

Now why would they do that?

Ahh ... there's your answer.

Thanks, was that to you personally or was it public (radio, tv).

I must say I've been completely underwhelmed by Tom since he's come to the club but there could be a thousand reasons for his poor form. What I do know is that if GWS and MFC are fighting so hard for him and offering him so much money there are some very smart footy people prepared to back him and consider him a very short priced favourite to become elite.

Prematch function, speaking to the room.

He said that what most people don't realise is that it's the other knee, and that being deep bone bruising, "as some here in the room, being doctors, will know", will be very painful and will take time to heal, but will heal fully (paraphrasing).

I'm not a doctor, but I was happy with that explanation.

Technically this is all meant to be confidential, but I'm hardly relaying tactics to the opposition.

From memory, I think he said they always knew Scully would take a bit longer to develop physically.

I think his current form has skewed a lot of memories.

I thought Scully was scintillating at times last year, and just needs time to build a bigger body, so he can contend with the men knocking him about.

He definitely has not had that explosive first step this year.

Even if Scully does leave, it won't make 90% of the things you've said correct.

You're right. It'll make 100% of it correct.B)

Or ... there are some very smart footy people who understand the need to make it appear that he's a short-priced favourite to become elite.

Now why would they do that?

Ahh ... there's your answer.

Yep, that's it, everyone is lying to you, everyone is out to get you, trust no one.

It's all an illusion.

You're right. It'll make 100% of it correct.B)

No, 90% of what you have said will still not be correct.

It's that simple.

But there's more that can be done than simply asking that one straight out question. Talk to the parents as well, see what they want for their son. Assess what their values are. Was that done? I'm not so sure it was.

Skillful interviewers have creative ways of ascertaining where the truth lies (no pun intended).

In addition there was the option of taking a hard line and insisting on a 3-year deal from the very beginning. The same deal Trengove accepted.

With GW$ on the horizon, we might've made a risk assessment that the player turning down 3-years just got to many alarm bells ringing.

With better intelligence and that approach, we could have come to the more correct conclusion, in my opinion, of drafting Martin.

Again, huge call. But these guys get paid to make them.

Yeah right.

So much reflection and backwards gazing here it makes my head spin. People are still shaking their heads at the money being touted for Scully. When we drafted him GC17 were having their dash at uncontracted players. GC17 were not targeting youth. The suggested money being offered to Scully would make him the second highest paid player at GC17 - unprecendented. Talk to the people at the club why Trengove and Tapscott were offered three years not two ( incidently - three years still didnt keep them out the GWS window or are you forgetting that ?) - the three years was to keep the SA boys here longer and get them setttled - an insurance against the go home factor not the GWS factor.

Even though Schwab fought to keep first contract players out of the GWS clutches there are more than a few scribes who are more than bemused by GWS targeting youth with one footy manager saying that they never expected 2nd year players to be targeted. The GC17 model of going for more mature footballers to suppliment their raft of draftees makes sense. To target second year footballers ? You need a spread of talent across ages to be successful - just look at how we are tracking due to void in middle to late age talent.

You are seriously asking us to have foreseen this coming when not one scribe, not one so called expert and nobody on this board with all we know now TODAY thinks that Scully is worth $1M a year. Yeah - we should have forseen at draft time that a club in two years time is going to offer him $1M a year. Scully wouldnt even have thought it possible.

Let's face it - Beamer is a nice bloke and can play well offensively against weaker teams, but he's not the sharpest bloke.

Like a lot of ill-informed supporters, he probably thinks that what he does now is leadership.

Dear god, please someone show him a REAL leader.

Beamer has stood up on many occasions in big games. Remember Queens birthday last year? Don't forget also he is the number one target by oppostion clubs.

Also off the field he leads, he organises the boxing camp down torquay when he could have the weekend off.

A player wouldn't be second on clearences (1 ahead of Judd) if he could only play well against weaker sides.)

But back to Scully thank god we will find out out in about 2 weeks! So over it.

You're right. It'll make 100% of it correct.B)

We will never know and I cant and wont dismiss what you have written about the timetable and truthfulness of statements. We dont know and you well may be right - I just choose to believe differently.

I will take you to task on what someone called revisionism. I will debate you until I am blue in the face ( bluey in the face ? demonology ...ewwww) on your attempts to suggest that AT THE TIME we should have known better and picked up Martin instead instead of Scully and that somehow we didnt do our due diligence.

Yep, that's it, everyone is lying to you, everyone is out to get you, trust no one.

It's all an illusion.

I've posted this before but I just love it so I'm pasting it in again for the benefit of you Gareth.

Prematch function, speaking to the room.

He said that what most people don't realise is that it's the other knee, and that being deep bone bruising, "as some here in the room, being doctors, will know", will be very painful and will take time to heal, but will heal fully (paraphrasing).

I'm not a doctor, but I was happy with that explanation.

Technically this is all meant to be confidential, but I'm hardly relaying tactics to the opposition.

From memory, I think he said they always knew Scully would take a bit longer to develop physically.

I think his current form has skewed a lot of memories.

I thought Scully was scintillating at times last year, and just needs time to build a bigger body, so he can contend with the men knocking him about.

He definitely has not had that explosive first step this year.

Thanks GK. Your comments about "forgetting" how good he was last year are pertinent, perhaps I need to go and look at some of last years tapes. I'm quite happy to back others opinions of him, they have much more knowledge than me.

Not long now anyway and regardless of the decision I reckon the "usual suspects" can keep this thread going for another year or to with "I told you so" justifications.

RR thanks for your comments but for the record I think they are rot. There is one group reportedly having offered $1 mil for five years and another offering more than any other third year player will ever have been paid. People don't do that unless they have faith in the product.

But I'm happy for you to believe what you want to believe and I'm really not interested in conspiracy theories or debates.

Thanks

Thanks GK. Your comments about "forgetting" how good he was last year are pertinent, perhaps I need to go and look at some of last years tapes. I'm quite happy to back others opinions of him, they have much more knowledge than me.

Not long now anyway and regardless of the decision I reckon the "usual suspects" can keep this thread going for another year or to with "I told you so" justifications.

RR thanks for your comments but for the record I think they are rot. There is one group reportedly having offered $1 mil for five years and another offering more than any other third year player will ever have been paid. People don't do that unless they have faith in the product.

But I'm happy for you to believe what you want to believe and I'm really not interested in conspiracy theories or debates.

Thanks

No worries Fan. Like all news events, I think posters will move on very quickly from this once it's settled. And so we should!