Tom Scully

[PeterJames 46]

This has nothing to do with his contract but during the Port game he came off after heavy knoch to the back/head then went to the rooms. He was subbed off not long after. Now they are saying its his knee? Maybe he hurt his knee when falling to the ground. Anyone else notice that?

[rpfc 28,048]

I just find that impossible to believe. How can we believe whilst the footy world discusses this every day, Scully himself has no idea what contracts are on the table by GWS and Melbourne.

If this is what he hears, I smell soemthing dodgy.

You are putting your experiences and expectations onto Tom.

He probably goes out of his way NOT to read the papers (if I knew him I would tell him to steer clear.

He probably is more concerned and frustrated by his injury and trying to play footy than worry about his contract.

He is, by all accounts, the most professional footballer at the club, and one of the most in the league, he is probably doing all he can to aide the Melbourne Demons team in 2011, and worry about the future in the future.

[Bay Riffin 1,454]

Are you suggesting Tom doesn't know about a huge contract has been offered by GWS even when his manager states this on radio. that he wouldn't know the money being offered?

is this candid camera (looks around the room) ??

[nutbean 8,838]

You are putting your experiences and expectations onto Tom.

He probably goes out of his way NOT to read the papers (if I knew him I would tell him to steer clear.

He probably is more concerned and frustrated by his injury and trying to play footy than worry about his contract.

He is, by all accounts, the most professional footballer at the club, and one of the most in the league, he is probably doing all he can to aide the Melbourne Demons team in 2011, and worry about the future in the future.

I wrote on another thread about Jordie McKenzie and the club ( and i have heard this from other clubs) strongly suggest to players that they dont read the newspapers ( or read these sites !)

[rpfc 28,048]

Are you suggesting Tom doesn't know about a huge contract has been offered by GWS even when his manager states this on radio. that he wouldn't know the money being offered?

is this candid camera (looks around the room) ??

Knowing the money on offer isn't an open discussion of a contract.

It would not prove that anything smells dodgy.

[nutbean 8,838]

Are you suggesting Tom doesn't know about a huge contract has been offered by GWS even when his manager states this on radio. that he wouldn't know the money being offered?

is this candid camera (looks around the room) ??

I think there is some confusion, or at least very simplistic ideas as to what a contract of this sort would look like and how they would be evaluated. It would not just about comparing $X over $years and there is your comparison

I would suggest strongly that a contract offer to Scully both from GWS and MFC would be multi faceted

- how much in each year ?

- front loaded ? back loaded ?

- important ! - incentives ? - brownlow votes ? games played ? B&f finishes ?

- important ! - endorsements ? marketing opportunities ? media opportunities ? other opportunities ?

- important ! - what have GWS offered in terms of living away from home compensation ? housing ? travel ?

- injury clauses ? suspension clauses ? misbehaviour clauses - who knows what is in both contracts ?

- important ! - terms and conditions ?

How often do you hear that the $ number of the contract is ok but there are things that need to be ironed in the detail of the contract ?

Cam Schwab has come out in black and white and said over the course of TS's career the money will be same. Do you not think that Cam would back that up with some sort of data to give credence to that comment ?

The contract is not only about how many dollars - so many other things need to be factored into the decision.

I suspect that right now there might be some number crunching at Velocity and discussion on terms of the contract.

I would further suggest that Tom knows that today and now a GWS offer is in simple terms bigger than an MFC offer but with the complexities over what is on offer on both contracts, why is it so unreasonable to take Tom at his word that he doesnt know or want to know the details of the offers/contracts until the end of the season.

Edit - to take an example - Cam Bruces contract offer last year - same length at both MFC and Hawthorn - MFC - no guaranteeds on a second year - Hawthorn - a number of KPI's need to be met to get a second year. MFC was monetrily higher. I suspect that Tom's contract would have a hell of lot more in terms of marketing etc in it. It would not be a straight forward contract.

Edited July 27, 2011 by nutbean

[Range Rover 1,935]

+1

I just cant see why the press conference if it was a charade. Tom just would not do that. No player agent in their right mind would do that either .... send their client out there to be slaughtered ... irrespective of the slaughter date.

Hypothetically speaking ... yes it makes perfect sense. If you keep an absolute stone cold poker face until such time as the 'decision' is made. And yes player agents and their clients do it all the time. In many sports. All over the world.

Again, not speaking about Tom Scully, but some of you need to disabused of this notion that sportspeople never lie.

Have a look at athletics, cycling, boxing, whatever sport you like. From Marion Jones to Floyd Landis.

Why can't we conceive that our precious footballers are beyond such human folly?

They are human beings with faults. Just like you and me!

Edited July 27, 2011 by Range Rover

[hardtack 10,409]

Again, not speaking about Tom Scully, but some of you need to disabused of this notion that sportspeople never lie.

I disagree with the notion that anyone should be booted for suggesting one of our players might be a liar, but this is a thread going by the title "Tom Scully", so for what reason would you argue that there is nothing new about sports people lying, other than to suggest that this equally applies to Scully? If I were you RR, I would give the whole truth/untruth thing a very wide berth.

Having said that, I like to believe there are sports people who are also very forthright and honest and whose word can be trusted, and I like to believe that Scully is one such person. Time will tell.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Knowing the money on offer isn't an open discussion of a contract.

It would not prove that anything smells dodgy.

Of course it does.

The statement by his manager that 'he's too busy training' and 'doesn't want to know what the contents of the offer are' are beyond ridiculous.

As someone said earlier (Strawbs I think), the manager's story and carry on has more holes than a block of swiss cheese.

It's been a feeble, transparent attempt to protect his client and throw a few stale red herrings to the media to cover his tracks.

Tom would do well to ditch these people at his earliest convenience.

[nutbean 8,838]

Hypothetically speaking ... yes it makes perfect sense. If you keep an absolute stone cold poker face until such time as the 'decision' is made. And yes player agents and their clients do it all the time. In many sports. All over the world.

Again, not speaking about Tom Scully, but some of you need to disabused of this notion that sportspeople never lie.

Have a look at athletics, cycling, boxing, whatever sport you like. From Marion Jones to Floyd Landis.

Why can't we conceive that our precious footballers are beyond such human folly?

They are human beings with faults. Just like you and me!

yop agree - I guess we all have our own judgement calls to make on whether we think what we are being fed is the truth or not.

I actually dont think that the Judd situation was a charade. He evaluated all the offers, and went with Carlton.

We like to think it was only about the money but at the time it was not only money that was better from Carlton, it was also facilities, the place they were in the development cycle of their players ( now has played two years of finals with them) and at that stage - a sounder administration. Thats why Carlton was chosen over us - and the reason Carlton was chosen over the Pies was money.

[Range Rover 1,935]

I disagree with the notion that anyone should be booted for suggesting one of our players might be a liar, but this is a thread going by the title "Tom Scully", so for what reason would you argue that there is nothing new about sports people lying, other than to suggest that this equally applies to Scully? If I were you RR, I would give the whole truth/untruth thing a very wide berth.

Having said that, I like to believe there are sports people who are also very forthright and honest and whose word can be trusted, and I like to believe that Scully is one such person. Time will tell.

Don't be so precious Hardtack. I was making a general reference to what I thought was a silly comment from Hangon007.

My thoughts on this subject are well known. I don't need to go over them again, but I see no problem on commenting in a wider sense.

[old55 22,788]

Tom would do well to ditch these people at his earliest convenience.

I don't think that's true at all - IMO he's been well-advised.

I've posted this before - but here goes again ...

There's a strong possibility he'll accept the GWS offer and there always has been. It was an impossible situation for him to accept the GWS offer before the 2011 season and come out and announce that. And that situation has continued for the duration of the season. We'd have MFC supporters insisting he play out the season in Casey 2s and some lunatic fringe abusing him there when he did - you only have to read some of the posters on this site to realise this is what would happen. A completely untenable situation for MFC and Tom - much worse that what we have experienced. Therefore postpone the decision. How hard is this to understand?

Edited July 27, 2011 by old55

[hardtack 10,409]

Don't be so precious Hardtack. I was making a general reference to what I thought was a silly comment from Hangon007.

My thoughts on this subject are well known. I don't need to go over them again, but I see no problem on commenting in a wider sense.

Fair enough... but I wasn't really being "precious" - just don't want to see you booted again.

[Range Rover 1,935]

I don't think that's true at all - IMO he's been well-advised.

I've posted this before - but here goes again ...

There's a strong possibility he'll accept the GWS offer and there always has been. It was an impossible sitiation for him to accept the GWS before the 2011 and come out and announce that. And that situation has continued for the duration of the season. We'd have MFC supporters insisting he play out the season in Casey 2s and some lunatic fringe abusing him there when he did - you only have to read some of the posters on this site to realise this is what would happen. A completely untenable situation for MFC and Tom - much worse that what we have experienced. Therefore postpone the decision. How hard is this to understand?

What if someone approaches you and your Dad and says ... we've got three multiple year, million dollar plus contracts and we've identified you as one of a small group of exceptional players we're prepared to offer one to. You've got three weeks to make your decision otherwise we'll approach players x, y and z with the offer.

What do you do then? That would be the smart way for GWS to go about it. Lock them early.

Which they did. The AFL confirmed that three or four GWS contracts were lodged with them late last year.

I hear what you're saying, but the possibility of what I've just stated above occurring changes the dynamic of what ensues.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Range Rover

[Range Rover 1,935]

Fair enough... but I wasn't really being "precious" - just don't want to see you booted again.

No worries, I probably do need to be told to pull my head in sometimes!

[old55 22,788]

What if someone approaches you and your Dad and says ... we've got three multiple year, million dollar plus contracts and we've identified you as one of a small group of exceptional players we're prepared to offer one to. You've got three weeks to make your decision otherwise we'll approach players x, y and z with the offer.

What do you do then? That would be the smart way for GWS to go about it. Lock them early.

Which they did. The AFL confirmed that three or four GWS contracts were lodged with them late last year.

I hear what you're saying, but the possibility of what I've just stated above occurring changed the dynamic of what ensues.

I accept that is quite possible too. That's what you're been saying happened. I wanted you to directly acknowledge it, which you did, and I don't support you being banned for holding that opinion. As I said it could be true. I think there's two possibilities - my scenario and your scenario. In my scenario with your hypothetical deadline, Tom maintained his plan and said "well you'll have to wait, just like the MFC".

As we've both pointed out, if he ultimately announces he has signed with GWS we may never know the truth. If he signs with MFC we will.

Let's say your scenario is true - do you think he could have announced that he'd signed with GWS? Do you think, as you stated above, that he's badly advised not to announce that he's signed with GWS? I think my scenario is far more consistent with good advice from his managers.

Edited July 27, 2011 by old55

[Range Rover 1,935]

I accept that is quite possible too. That's what you're been saying happened. I wanted you to directly acknowledge it, which you did, and I don't support you being banned for holding that opinion. As I said it could be true. I think there's two possibilities - my scenario and your scenario. In my scenario with your hypothetical deadline, Tom maintained his plan and said "well you'll have to wait, just like the MFC".

As we've both pointed out, if he ultimately announces he has signed with GWS we may never know the truth. If he signs with MFC we will.

And that's fair enough.

I was banned for holding my view, which is the right of the site owners I guess.

[nutbean 8,838]

I accept that is quite possible too. That's what you're been saying happened. I wanted you to directly acknowledge it, which you did, and I don't support you being banned for holding that opinion. As I said it could be true. I think there's two possibilities - my scenario and your scenario. In my scenario with your hypothetical deadline, Tom maintained his plan and said "well you'll have to wait, just like the MFC".

As we've both pointed out, if he ultimately announces he has signed with GWS we may never know the truth. If he signs with MFC we will.

I agree 100% and hark back to what Jimma said " this systems forces people to tell lies".

Judgement call and I pretty much accept how each person is prepared to judge ( as long as "dark side" goes balls out as RR did and took his argument to its only logical conclusion and subsequently got banned for it)

[old55 22,788]

And that's fair enough.

I was banned for holding my view, which is the right of the site owners I guess.

[rpfc 28,048]

Let's say your scenario is true - do you think he could have announced that he'd signed with GWS? Do you think, as you stated above, that he's badly advised not to announce that he's signed with GWS? I think my scenario is far more consistent with good advice from his managers.

He has been well advised whatever the outcome.

There is a balance between getting the best deal, keeping a reputation intact, and keeping the current employment environment tenable.

It's difficult but he has the two options, and has still got the respect of his teammates, the club, and the majority (I hope) of fans.

As an MFC fan I don't like it, but I cannot deny the needle that has been threaded.

Edited July 27, 2011 by rpfc

[rpfc 28,048]

Hypothetically speaking ... yes it makes perfect sense. If you keep an absolute stone cold poker face until such time as the 'decision' is made. And yes player agents and their clients do it all the time. In many sports. All over the world.

Again, not speaking about Tom Scully, but some of you need to disabused of this notion that sportspeople never lie.

Have a look at athletics, cycling, boxing, whatever sport you like. From Marion Jones to Floyd Landis.

Why can't we conceive that our precious footballers are beyond such human folly?

They are human beings with faults. Just like you and me!

Yes, human beings have faults, I'm not one to accuse an impressive 19 year old of them without solid evidence.

And with due respect, there is a massive difference between saying 'sportsmen lie' and accusing an individual of lying.

And it's the reason why you had a week off.

[Viney12 196]

What if someone approaches you and your Dad and says ... we've got three multiple year, million dollar plus contracts and we've identified you as one of a small group of exceptional players we're prepared to offer one to. You've got three weeks to make your decision otherwise we'll approach players x, y and z with the offer.

What do you do then? That would be the smart way for GWS to go about it. Lock them early.

Which they did. The AFL confirmed that three or four GWS contracts were lodged with them late last year.

I hear what you're saying, but the possibility of what I've just stated above occurring changes the dynamic of what ensues.

And if Scully's manager says "you'll have to wait until the end of 2011" do you think GWS would just go cold on him??

[John Crow Batty 8,774]

And if Scully's manager says "you'll have to wait until the end of 2011" do you think GWS would just go cold on him??

And don't forget it was Scully's manager who said a few weeks ago that they heard GWS might be interested and Velocity Sports approached GWS just because they thought there was some interest. Must be very shy folks out there west. Ready with a sack full of money but too hesitant to make the first approach. What a load of humbug. Just like all the moderators here to a man and aided and abetted by some life members and the like steadfastly refusing to diverge from all the spin and tripe dished up by MFC, TS and VC. They are going to cynically keep that finger plugging the dyke for as long as they can. There are going to be a lot of angry supporters who will feel duped when the truth finally comes out.

Edited July 27, 2011 by america de cali

[Bruce Almighty 0]

Based on 2011 form Scully's value should of dropped! he has done nothing and potentially has an injury that could hamper is entire career.

I dont really care if he leaves now, knowing we will recieve the two compensation first round picks as weel as have the cash to lure another already proven player.

Scully + Bailey OUT

Fevola + Malthouse IN

[rpfc 28,048]

And don't forget it was Scully's manager who said a few weeks ago that they heard GWS might be interested and Velocity Sports approached GWS just because they thought there was some interest. Must be very shy folks out there west. Ready with a sack full of money but too hesitant to make the first approach. What a load of humbug. Just like all the moderators here to a man and aided and abetted by some life members and the like steadfastly refusing to diverge from all the spin and tripe dished up by MFC, TS and VC. They are going to cynically keep that finger plugging the dyke for as long as they can. There are going to be a lot of angry supporters who will feel duped when the truth finally comes out.

If that's the case, why do you care about constantly trying to change our minds...