Sack Bailey

[Guest Artie Bucco]

*ironic.

Don't make up words.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

*ironic.

Don't make up words.

I think he was being ironical

[biggestred 5,015]

I know you wanted to be ironical and all, but you just opened up an inevitable channel (a thread) for this.

Didn't really matter what the OP contained...

facetious.

anyway i knew this thread was going to be opened somehow, so i figured i might as well take the [censored] out of it before it began

[biggestred 5,015]

In regards to "Pates" raising the issue of spuds not correctly following the gameplan, do you think maybe that's reflective of the disadvantage of not having our own VFL team (as opposed to an affiliate)?

In that, we can't make the VFL team follow the seniors gameplan as a carbon copy, so players enter the senior team well-versed in what is expected of them?

And we can also more accurately assess their ability to perform at the next level?

in a word...........yes.

[rpfc 28,262]

facetious.

anyway i knew this thread was going to be opened somehow, so i figured i might as well take the [censored] out of it before it began

Well the [censored] is most definitely in...

[Guest Thomo]

I admitted I didn't read it, so I thought it would be obvious I just made an assumption.

You sorta have to do that - you can't read something to decide whether to read it or not.

I didn't say it was full of the same arguments, just that I assumed it was.

Hence I replied to another poster and not you.

I haven't run out of reasonable arguments - I just grow tired of having to point out to posters why they are wrong.

I just wish they could figure it out for themselves.

It's a bloody full time job, and even then a lot of them are too stupid to understand.

And I don't love Bailey - I take an even measured approach to judging him, I don't let emotion get in the way, and I get tired of narrow-minded posters that don't do the same.

Have fun, ride the rollercoaster, take pride in telling everyone you were right all along when he eventually does get the axe (as all coaches eventually do).

I won't.

Still nothing. It's like you think that you really must defend Bailey, but you have nothing to say, but you type anyway.

You came onto this forum when the serious criticism stated about a month ago and have written 400 posts, with about 95 percent of them in Dean Bailey threads vigorously defending him. I think you are either an alias of another poster trying to gee people up(I'd like the mods to check), or you have a personal or professional link to him.

It's about time you came clean.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Hahahahahahaha you are a real gem Thomo!

Thanks for the laugh.

ps. I still haven't bothered to read your dissertation yet.

I won't be giving it a shot tonight, that's for sure.

Edited May 28, 2011 by Artie Bucco

[Real Demon 232]

As a supporter, I've been patient enough with Dean Bailey.

I bought the rebuild, the upskilling of players, the facilities, the games into players, the new game plan, the players learning to play multiple positions, the learning to win quaters,etc etc.

It's been a great story, great to read, and filled the supporters with hope, and has kept the pressure off Bailey and the club for 3 1/2 years.

I actually think we've been suckered into thinking that all of the above means that losing is acceptable. It quite simply isn't.

The recent injuries are unfortunate, but aren't the sole reason for how the team is playing.

Our close to full strength team was diabolical against Hawthorn and West Coast.

I like Dean Bailey, I really do....... I like his demeanour, what he says, how he says it, his stoic nature etc......he ticks a number of boxes for a senior coach.......he just can't win games, and that is his primary reason for being.

He's not alone, and coaches with far superior coaching records than him have been moved on from their clubs historically.

The Bailey sympathisers are simply going to have to live up to this reality, and understand that at the end of it all, only one thing really matters.........wins.

Consider those who have gone around the league before him, and their respective winning percentages:

Kevin Bartlett 88 games 30.7%

Matthew Knights 67 games 37.3%

Ken Judge 133 games 36.8%

Peter Schwab 109 games 47.7%

Tim Watson 44 games 27.3%

Jeff Gieschen 49 games 51.0%

Danny Frawley 113 games 39.8%

Damian Drum 57 games 22.8%

Chris Connolly 130 games 52.3%

Neil Balme 98 games 41.8%

Peter Rhode 45 games 20.0%

Dean Bailey 75 games 24.0%

Sure, all of the above were different teams, different eras, different stages of development etc.

But history tells us a record like Bailey's, regardless of how much of a good bloke you are, and how many extenuating circumstances there may be, the lack of wins will end your career. If Dean was sacked tomorrow, he and his supporters couldn't be suprised as to why.

[Guest Thomo]

Hahahahahahaha you are a real gem Thomo!

Thanks for the laugh.

ps. I still haven't bothered to read your dissertation yet.

I won't be giving it a shot tonight, that's for sure.

Still nothing. It's getting embarrising.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Still nothing. It's getting embarrising.

Only for you.

Rabble rabble.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

As a supporter, I've been patient enough with Dean Bailey.

...

I'd understand why, definitely, but it still doesn't make it the CORRECT DECISION.

I get why people like yourself see things as you do, but I just see more of the picture.

There are other factors at play here that have contributed to our performance over this season and the last few, that are not being considered.

And the reasons for not considering them are not valid.

Such as your contention that you have been "patient enough".

That's not correct.

Bailey may not be the right coach, but it won't be for the reasons you think.

[QueenC 74]

Still nothing. It's getting embarrising.

It really is now, so can you two put it aside and stick to the topic, please.

[Guest Thomo]

Only for you.

Rabble rabble.

And still nothing......

[rpfc 28,262]

If Dean was sacked tomorrow, he and his supporters couldn't be suprised as to why.

With all due respect - the MFC was complicit with his win/loss record.

If Bailey is sacked tomorrow, it will not be because of his win/loss record.

I applauded the extension of the contract for one year last year as it would give the board an insight into how Bailey can coach a team rather than being a purely developmental figure.

He has not had the best of runs with injury with the Carlton game being quite notable for the lack of experience, form, and talent in our ranks: Evans, Nicholson, Gysberts, and Maric falling into the first category, Bennell, Morton, Bate, and Petterd in the second, and Warnock and Newton in the latter category.

And with Jurrah and Frawley listless with niggling injuries it leaves our senior players to do more than they are capable of doing.

With that said, he hasn't been able to muster a decent attitude across the playing group. Green, Rivers, and Davey don't help in this regard as they are not leaders of men. Moloney is yet to find a way to bridge the gap between his best and worst games, and Jones is a fantastic tryer that I wish would stop tweeting and get in the ear of his teammates instead.

If he can get some consistency of application from the group he might save his job, but it isn't looking good.

I still say he deserves the season, and we will lose nothing by allowing him to finish the season out.

Addendum: If the decision has been made prior to Round 22 than be honest and open, but it's his decision to do a Daniher or a Frawley.

Edited May 28, 2011 by rpfc

[Tatu 416]

MFC should extend Bailey's contract now, at half the going rate. Then spend the extra cash on some decent assistent coaches...

[Axis of Bob 11,684]

Given the lack of emotion after a friday night game, I can only assume that everyone was pretty happy with the effort.

[Guest Thomo]

With all due respect - the MFC was complicit with his win/loss record.

If Bailey is sacked tomorrow, it will not be because of his win/loss record.

I applauded the extension of the contract for one year last year as it would give the board an insight into how Bailey can coach a team rather than being a purely developmental figure.

He has not had the best of runs with injury with the Carlton game being quite notable for the lack of experience, form, and talent in our ranks: Evans, Nicholson, Gysberts, and Maric falling into the first category, Bennell, Morton, Bate, and Petterd in the second, and Warnock and Newton in the latter category.

And with Jurrah and Frawley listless with niggling injuries it leaves our senior players to do more than they are capable of doing.

With that said, he hasn't been able to muster a decent attitude across the playing group. Green, Rivers, and Davey don't help in this regard as they are not leaders of men. Moloney is yet to find a way to bridge the gap between his best and worst games, and Jones is a fantastic tryer that I wish would stop tweeting and get in the ear of his teammates instead.

If he can get some consistency of application from the group he might save his job, but it isn't looking good.

I still say he deserves the season, and we will lose nothing by allowing him to finish the season out.

Addendum: If the decision has been made prior to Round 22 than be honest and open, but it's his decision to do a Daniher or a Frawley.

Some good points.

I disagree with the point that we will lose nothing by allowing him to finish the season out. I think that he is asking the players to play a style of football that is flawed. We have two thirds of a season still to go that can be used to fix some problems, stop the damage, try someone else, and look for a replacement. Footballers have a short career, 13 games is a long time, why waste it with the wrong bloke?

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Damage?? Exactly what damage is being done?

[rpfc 28,262]

Some good points.

I disagree with the point that we will lose nothing by allowing him to finish the season out. I think that he is asking the players to play a style of football that is flawed. We have two thirds of a season still to go that can be used to fix some problems, stop the damage, try someone else, and look for a replacement. Footballers have a short career, 13 games is a long time, why waste it with the wrong bloke?

The style won't change under Viney.

I really don't know how one can have such a desire to fire a coach mid-season...

Are you worried he might turn it around in 13 games and we will stuck with him?

Frankly, I don't want us to be stuck with Viney in such a scenario.

We will talk to Roos and Malthouse and Sanderson (good luck) and we will do our due diligence with Bailey at the helm, so if there are worries about that...don't worry.

He has the rest of the year to prove something that is slipping away from him, I am ok with him having that remote chance.

And I really don't want Melbourne players to have to be 'aroused' by a fiery caretaker.

They can find that passion within themselves, or they can [censored] off.

Because you're no use to us if you can't fire up when you are wearing that emblem...

Edited May 28, 2011 by rpfc

[Tatu 416]

The style won't change under Viney.

I really don't know how one can have such a desire to fire a coach mid-season...

Are you worried he might turn it around in 13 games and we will stuck with him?

Frankly, I don't want us to be stuck with Viney in such a scenario.

We will talk to Roos and Malthouse and Sanderson (good luck) and we will do our due diligence with Bailey at the helm, so if there are worries about that...don't worry.

He has the rest of the year to prove something that is slipping away from him, I am ok with him having that remote chance.

And I really don't want Melbourne players to have to be 'aroused' by a fiery caretaker.

They can find that passion within themselves, or they can [censored] off.

Because you're no use to us if you can't fire up when you are wearing that emblem...

Agree...

[Real Demon 232]

I'd understand why, definitely, but it still doesn't make it the CORRECT DECISION.

I get why people like yourself see things as you do, but I just see more of the picture.

There are other factors at play here that have contributed to our performance over this season and the last few, that are not being considered.

And the reasons for not considering them are not valid.

Such as your contention that you have been "patient enough".

That's not correct.

Bailey may not be the right coach, but it won't be for the reasons you think.

Well Artie, the world I live in revolves around results.

AFL coaches live and die by results.

Right or wrong that's life.

There may be a lot more factors at play than what supporters see, but at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter.

It's perception as much as anything that ends coaching careers.........just ask Mark Williams.

And for the majority of supporters who don't have any inside knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes, perception is reality.

[Guest Thomo]

The style won't change under Viney.

I really don't know how one can have such a desire to fire a coach mid-season...

Are you worried he might turn it around in 13 games and we will stuck with him?

Frankly, I don't want us to be stuck with Viney in such a scenario.

We will talk to Roos and Malthouse and Sanderson (good luck) and we will do our due diligence with Bailey at the helm, so if there are worries about that...don't worry.

He has the rest of the year to prove something that is slipping away from him, I am ok with him having that remote chance.

And I really don't want Melbourne players to have to be 'aroused' by a fiery caretaker.

They can find that passion within themselves, or they can [censored] off.

Because you're no use to us if you can't fire up when you are wearing that emblem...

My thinking is why waste any more time with the wrong bloke. Lets try something new, because to me it is clear that we are heading in the wrong direction, so keeping him will only delay the inevitable and continue to teach players bad habits. And although the players should be able to 'arouse' themselves, there seems to be a common problem among the playing group. If a few players are lacking motivation and discipline I blame them, if 22 players are lacking motivation and discipline, I blame the coach.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Well Artie, the world I live in revolves around results.

AFL coaches live and die by results.

Right or wrong that's life.

There may be a lot more factors at play than what supporters see, but at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter.

It's perception as much as anything that ends coaching careers.........just ask Mark Williams.

And for the majority of supporters who don't have any inside knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes, perception is reality.

So he should, but what results do we judge him by?

W/L record? That is far too simplistic.

You need to take into consideration the list he inherited and what was actually possible for him to do with it, up until this point.

I think a lot of supporters expectations aren't possible for any coach to have achieved in his position.

So beyond W/L, you need to define other KPIs by which to judge him.

What they are, I'm not exactly sure.

I see certain occurrences as evidence of him having done a good job in certain aspects of his role.

I also see some mistakes - but all coaches make mistakes.

Perception is reality - in the minds of those who perceive it.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Thomo, 22 players aren't lacking motivation and discipline.

That is rubbish.

[Guest Thomo]

Thomo, 22 players aren't lacking motivation and discipline.

That is rubbish.

Bailey repeatedly states that the team didn't play to the game plan, to me that says the players are lacking motivation and discipline. Or is it that they are playing his game plan which is poor, but he won't say it publicly? Either way it proves he can't coach.