AFL 360

[Kento80 83]

Was very interesting to see David King and Mark MacClures assessment of what is going on at the Dees. Both of the opinion that we have the players with the skills to have some sort of impact, but do not have the tactics to win in the modern era of the press. MacClure is of the opinion that due to who our next six games are against we can really only expect to win two and that would be enough to effect a change at Melbourne. It seems they echo the sentiments of many here.

[Guest 36DD]

Was very interesting to see David King and Mark MacClures assessment of what is going on at the Dees. Both of the opinion that we have the players with the skills to have some sort of impact, but do not have the tactics to win in the modern era of the press. MacClure is of the opinion that due to who our next six games are against we can really only expect to win two and that would be enough to effect a change at Melbourne. It seems they echo the sentiments of many here.

David King and Mark MacClure, both made a huge impact as coaches and remain highly sort after today.

[Kento80 83]

Did you forget your 'sarcasm' emoticon 36??

[Guest 36DD]

Did you forget your 'sarcasm' emoticon 36??

nah mate, mention David King and Mark MacClure in the same sentence and you know its a joke with no punchline!

[Kento80 83]

Agreed there, but did you watch it?

[Chicken Deelicious 0]

Easy enough for commentators to leap on the band-wagon and say what everyone else has already said. Where is ONE commentator that says "it was a cr#p effort, but Melbourne are on the up and will turn this around in the next few weeks". ???

If we turn this around, these suck-eggs low rate muck pedallers will be kissing our butts.

Dees should take the kick in the arse hard this week and do something about it. I'm sure they have worked out who to listen to, and it not these types of commentators.

Fix it up, Dees, and we can enjoy as they all come crawling back.

[Supermercado 2,797]

David King and Mark MacClure, both made a huge impact as coaches and remain highly sort after today.

And yet some people are gagging for Garry Lyon to come and coach us...

[Guest 36DD]

Agreed there, but did you watch it?

nah mate, our gameplan will be fine if players do the hard things, tackle, pressure and gut run to provide either forward options or alternatively to zone in defence following a turnover, pretty simple really. Collingwood stop doing those things, they turn to shite. Hell Essendon dropped intensity in the 2nd quarter against GC, GC won that quarter.

[Kento80 83]

Easy enough for commentators to leap on the band-wagon and say what everyone else has already said. Where is ONE commentator that says "it was a cr#p effort, but Melbourne are on the up and will turn this around in the next few weeks". ???

If we turn this around, these suck-eggs low rate muck pedallers will be kissing our butts.

Dees should take the kick in the arse hard this week and do something about it. I'm sure they have worked out who to listen to, and it not these types of commentators.

Fix it up, Dees, and we can enjoy as they all come crawling back.

The point I agree with from MacClure is that for Bailey, unfortunately, the timing is terrible. We can expect to get a win from Adelaide and North, but after that we are in trouble for the following four weeks, and this spells trouble for Bailey. Lose one or, disastrously, two of the next two and the ending to the book is already written. If we were coming into an easy part of our draw, salvage may be feasible, but we aren't. We are coming into the hard part of our draw and it will take a miracle.

As for the media being muck pedallers, I also agree, but we still all read what they have to say.

[Kento80 83]

nah mate, our gameplan will be fine if players do the hard things, tackle, pressure and gut run to provide either forward options or alternatively to zone in defence following a turnover, pretty simple really. Collingwood stop doing those things, they turn to shite. Hell Essendon dropped intensity in the 2nd quarter against GC, GC won that quarter.

To a certain extent you are right. To a certain extent you are also wrong. Our players lack intensity, agreed, but our gameplan lacks forward thinking. We are laying an outdated gameplan that cannot compete with a well executed press (God I hate that word, but it is here to stay). And as they said on the show, this press can't be taught and mastered in a week. We are a preseason behind most clubs and a couple years behind the pies on learning how to execute and defend the press.

[Guest 36DD]

To a certain extent you are right. To a certain extent you are also wrong. Our players lack intensity, agreed, but our gameplan lacks forward thinking. We are laying an outdated gameplan that cannot compete with a well executed press (God I hate that word, but it is here to stay). And as they said on the show, this press can't be taught and mastered in a week. We are a preseason behind most clubs and a couple years behind the pies on learning how to execute and defend the press.

reckon its pretty simple to beat the press, have a look at both Melbourne's matches against Collingwood last year and in more recent times our second quarter against Hawthorn. It requires players to have exceptional skills, the ability to make the right decision under pressure and to take risks. When players have confidence they do these things instinctively. When they are down on confidence they second guess themselves. Pretty simple really but these so called pundits like "to [censored] on peoples legs and tell em its raining" just so as they cant get a paycheck from shows like AFL360.

[beelzebub 23,313]

lets not get ahead of ourselves here... A brave man pencils in both Adelaide and Nth atm.... Both playing with more heart and soul than us !!

[1858 285]

David King summed us up over a month ago long before the media frenzy.

[Kento80 83]

reckon its pretty simple to beat the press, have a look at both Melbourne's matches against Collingwood last year and in more recent times our second quarter against Hawthorn. It requires players to have exceptional skills, the ability to make the right decision under pressure and to take risks. When players have confidence they do these things instinctively. When they are down on confidence they second guess themselves. Pretty simple really but these so called pundits like "to [censored] on peoples legs and tell em its raining" just so as they cant get a paycheck from shows like AFL360.

Righto mate. Maybe you should be coach if it's so easy. Might just get you a show on Fox too. Get some real "expert" commentary.

Against Hawthorn, our second quarter (or any part of that game) only mattered because they couldn't kick a goal to save themselves. As for Collingwood, well who knows what to say for that one. It is fair to say they weren't on top of their game, but we well and truly were. I'll give you that one.

lets not get ahead of ourselves here... A brave man pencils in both Adelaide and Nth atm.... Both playing with more heart and soul than us !!

Agreed. I think it's fair to say we "should" win those two, but given recent form that is by no means a certainty.

[Hannabal 4]

reckon its pretty simple to beat the press, have a look at both Melbourne's matches against Collingwood last year and in more recent times our second quarter against Hawthorn. It requires players to have exceptional skills, the ability to make the right decision under pressure and to take risks. When players have confidence they do these things instinctively. When they are down on confidence they second guess themselves. Pretty simple really but these so called pundits like "to [censored] on peoples legs and tell em its raining" just so as they cant get a paycheck from shows like AFL360.

They said what some have been saying for weeks and some, such as yourself, simply don't have the footy cognitive skills to understand.

Our game plan isn't based on defence and the high risk/high reward strategy will never stand up in finals. We're one of 3 clubs that doesn't do the forward press and moreso doesn't have any clue how to counteract it, so we're behind on two counts.

Bailey isn't a tactician's a-hole and has been caught asleep at the wheel over summer with his pants around his ankles. Some people get it, some people get it but won't publicly admit it and some just don't understand it. Welcome to category three.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Hannabal

[Kento80 83]

They said what some have been saying for weeks and some, such as yourself, simply don't have the footy cognitive skills to understand.

Our game plan isn't based on defence and the high risk/high reward strategy will never stand up in finals. We're one of 3 clubs that doesn't do the forward press and moreso doesn't have any clue to counteract it, so we're behind on two counts.

Bailey isn't a tactician's a-hole and has been caught asleep at the wheel over summer with his pants around his ankles. Some people get it, some people get it but won't publicly admit it and some just don't understand it. Welcome to category three.

Well said Hannabal.

[Bay Riffin 1,473]

Righto mate. Maybe you should be coach if it's so easy. Might just get you a show on Fox too. Get some real "expert" commentary.

Against Hawthorn, our second quarter (or any part of that game) only mattered because they couldn't kick a goal to save themselves. As for Collingwood, well who knows what to say for that one. It is fair to say they weren't on top of their game, but we well and truly were. I'll give you that one.

Actually no you are right with your thinking. The last Collingwood game we fought back after a disastrous first qtr again when we were all at sea but they did not bury us on the scoreboard, just like the hawks. This trend is becoming far more entrenched than some people think. We time and again cannot keep up the intensity when the heat is on.

[1858 285]

They said what some have been saying for weeks and some, such as yourself, simply don't have the footy cognitive skills to understand.

Our game plan isn't based on defence and the high risk/high reward strategy will never stand up in finals. We're one of 3 clubs that doesn't do the forward press and moreso doesn't have any clue how to counteract it, so we're behind on two counts.

Bailey isn't a tactician's a-hole and has been caught asleep at the wheel over summer with his pants around his ankles. Some people get it, some people get it but won't publicly admit it and some just don't understand it. Welcome to category three.

You'll get lambasted for this but you're spot on in all areas.

[Guest 36DD]

Righto mate. Maybe you should be coach if it's so easy. Might just get you a show on Fox too. Get some real "expert" commentary.

Against Hawthorn, our second quarter (or any part of that game) only mattered because they couldn't kick a goal to save themselves. As for Collingwood, well who knows what to say for that one. It is fair to say they weren't on top of their game, but we well and truly were. I'll give you that one.

Agreed. I think it's fair to say we "should" win those two, but given recent form that is by no means a certainty.

The press is simply adapted from soccer and bball. Players guard spaces rather than men. You can pass the ball around the three point line all day in bball or alternatively in soccer have your defenders knock the ball about without gaining ground. To beat the press it is as simple as getting two defenders to commit to the ball, once that happens avenues will open up, but it does require the person in possession to select the correct option.

Well if you would like to appoint me coach, happy to oblige. One of the first things I would do is make the best decision maker the sole person responsible for the kick out. I would instruct him to decrease the time taken to bring the ball into play (i.e not slowly walking over to the bag of balls) this will limit the defensive teams' opportunity to set the zone. i would instruct the player to bring the ball in by playing on the majority of the time.

Miami Heat are currently tearing the best defensive team in basketball, the Boston Celtics a new a-hole simply by exploiting the fast break and utilising their athleticism. if the game is played in the half court and the Celts are allowed to set up defensively Miami are toast.

[Guest 36DD]

You'll get lambasted for this but you're spot on in all areas.

Our forwards dont do a press because either the ball is kicked into our forward fifty as a "bail out" kick from half back due to an oppositions pressure, therefore, the opposition defenders outling the zone rack up uncontested possessions. You cant apply forward pressure if the forwards are nowhere near the ball. Secondly, our forwards are not fit enough to apply pressure. Wonna and Jurrah simply do not have the tank to do it for the whole match. Reckon the sub rule has really limited our ability to hide unfit players.

[Kento80 83]

Actually no you are right with your thinking. The last Collingwood game we fought back after a disastrous first qtr again when we were all at sea but they did not bury us on the scoreboard, just like the hawks. This trend is becoming far more entrenched than some people think. We time and again cannot keep up the intensity when the heat is on.

Thats the thing Ray, so far this year (and a bit last year) we don't seem to get beaten too often, we lose. There is a difference because one relates to how we play, the other relates to how our opponents play. It is so frustrating to watch (as we all know) because you know we have the skills, but something isn't there. I'll not be simplistic enough to suggest that it is all the players, all the game plan or all the coach. It is a combo, but there is a chain of command if you will, and it starts with the players and ends with the coach. He is the teacher, the motivator and the strategist. If the skills aren't there, ythen what is wrong with the teaching? If the intensity isn't there, then where is the motivation? If the strategy is wrong, then why?

[Bay Riffin 1,473]

Well if you would like to appoint me coach, happy to oblige. One of the first things I would do is make the best decision maker the sole person responsible for the kick out. I would instruct him to decrease the time taken to bring the ball into play (i.e not slowly walking over to the bag of balls) this will limit the defensive teams' opportunity to set the zone. i would instruct the player to bring the ball in by playing on the majority of the time.

unfortunately your first mistake is making someone the 'sole' person responsibly for kickouts, yet at the same time try to decrease the time taken to actually kick out. Unless that person positions themselves 20 m out from goal all day, it's impossible. you need multiple kickers and whoever is nearest goes bang.

it is however mind boggling how we seem to still have no real urgency in bringing the ball in. it's like some psychological barrier to get a good aggressive kick out happening.

[Guest 36DD]

Actually no you are right with your thinking. The last Collingwood game we fought back after a disastrous first qtr again when we were all at sea but they did not bury us on the scoreboard, just like the hawks. This trend is becoming far more entrenched than some people think. We time and again cannot keep up the intensity when the heat is on.

Think you will find that we weren't the only team that collingwood suffered the yips against, think the stats had them down as one of the most inaccurate teams in history. From memory, it was put down to their gameplan of hugging the boundary line and always kicking for goal from the pockets. It was a major query heading into the finals.

[Kento80 83]

The press is simply adapted from soccer and bball. Players guard spaces rather than men. You can pass the ball around the three point line all day in bball or alternatively in soccer have your defenders knock the ball about without gaining ground. To beat the press it is as simple as getting two defenders to commit to the ball, once that happens avenues will open up, but it does require the person in possession to select the correct option.

Well if you would like to appoint me coach, happy to oblige. One of the first things I would do is make the best decision maker the sole person responsible for the kick out. I would instruct him to decrease the time taken to bring the ball into play (i.e not slowly walking over to the bag of balls) this will limit the defensive teams' opportunity to set the zone. i would instruct the player to bring the ball in by playing on the majority of the time.

Miami Heat are currently tearing the best defensive team in basketball, the Boston Celtics a new a-hole simply by exploiting the fast break and utilising their athleticism. if the game is played in the half court and the Celts are allowed to set up defensively Miami are toast.

Well if it is that simple, what is wrong with the Melbourne Demons? If it is that simple, Bailey should already be gone. Fact of the matter is it isn't that simple. How many people are on a basketball court? How many players on a soccer field? Your theory of 'simplicity' just does not add up.

The funny thing is that you are saying that King and MacClure don't know what they are on about, and then the next moment you are saying that we don't play correct tactically to beat the press, but that is pretty much the basic explanation of what the two idiots on the box had to say.

[Guest 36DD]

unfortunately your first mistake is making someone the 'sole' person responsibly for kickouts, yet at the same time try to decrease the time taken to actually kick out. Unless that person positions themselves 20 m out from goal all day, it's impossible. you need multiple kickers and whoever is nearest goes bang.

it is however mind boggling how we seem to still have no real urgency in bringing the ball in. it's like some psychological barrier to get a good aggressive kick out happening.

no doubt the most important position in football these days.