In this draft do we have "time" on our side?

[Guest hangon007]

Look I thought I would just ask this question to see what others thought.

We all know the GC & GWS are coming so future drafts are going to be near obliterated.

Think we all accept that this is not the last un-compromised draft instead the first compromised draft.

However, in pragmatic terms ...

Do we have the luxury & the time filling draft picks 1,2,11,18,34,50 with the "best young kids in the land that fill our needs"

Or

Do we have to take some "here and now decisions" to try and accelerate the process.

Its generally accepted kids take time with no guarantees ...

Do we have the luxury?

or ... in pragmatic terms

Do we have to start winning sooner rather than later?

Do we have to start offering a return to our sponsors & hopefully attracting new ones?

Ultimately if I thought we were in the 1st year of a rebuild or we had bottomless pits of money I wouldn't be asking these question.

I'm not sure ... but I would appreciate the thoughts of a few others around here.

Edited November 12, 2009 by hangon007

[beelzebub 23,241]

somewhere in amongst that 007 im in agreement with the idea that some of our picks may not necessarily be about the here and now...even less than with some years. In the same way that GC and GWS are future loading.....we can, if we choose look to some that have potential and dont fit the normal constraints (of say time and development ) but are worthwhile stocks.

No one expects us in finals for 3-4 bar maybe some of us here who think a year or so sooner isnt totally impossible.

Sponsors , the Club and supporters alike want to see improvement.., continued and sustained achieving and building upon that.

[Keyser Söze 0]

blah blah blah ... fear mongering ... noise ... insecurity ... blah blah blah ... hopelessness ...

why don't we just concede defeat and de-register the club?

[Sir Why You Little 36,735]

We have just had 3 years of Crap, with 2 new teams on the way in. With that in mind i believe we have to start winning games.

That is not to say we do not draft kids at all, but we should be looking at a blend of young & older players to mentor on the run.

We have to cement ourselves as a Victorian "Big" club in order to survive long term. Vlad is already talking 19 & 20 teams in the not to distant future.

We cannot be carried forever. So yes i think we need a mix.

The club should aim to win 10 Games next year, we may do it we may not but we have to start aiming high every year-starting now.

[Guest hangon007]

Sponsors , the Club and supporters alike want to see improvement.., continued and sustained achieving and building upon that.

With all due respect I would have thought

a/ Sponsors fell into two main categories

1/ Sponsors who already barrack for the club and see sponsorship as more of a donation with "benefits" ... hence prepared to be give us time

or

2/ Sponsors more focus on commercial reality ... Who want results, who want to back winners ... who sadly may not be so forgiving with their "time" frames

Re .. "Club & supporters" ... I take your point and cant disagree.

[beelzebub 23,241]

With all due respect I would have thought

a/ Sponsors fell into two main categories

1/ Sponsors who already barrack for the club and see sponsorship as more of a donation with "benefits" ... hence prepared to be give us time

or

2/ Sponsors more focus on commercial reality ... Who want results, who want to back winners ... who sadly may not be so forgiving with their "time" frames

Re .. "Club & supporters" ... I take your point and cant disagree.

we have been veryvery lucky to have scored the two sponsors we did...when we did.

They almost border on love jobs... well Hankook does in al honesty. Kasperky is visionary ( having been informed well )

Sponsors want exposure...generaly as long as its not detrimental its good. Whomever gets on board now ( sponsorship wise ) will get a very good ride. Results.. refer exposure.

However the thrust of my sentence was not narrowed to sponsors only. You will note I did agree with you ( lol ) that we might indeed have some time. Using that time is the key. We have started ahead of many teams in the rebuild. We are fortunate in our picks. No one other than the newbies will get anything like that for years ( if ever again ) . we have a window possibly to be a littel lateral if it suits.

[Guest hangon007]

We have just had 3 years of Crap, with 2 new teams on the way in. With that in mind i believe we have to start winning games.

That is not to say we do not draft kids at all, but we should be looking at a blend of young & older players to mentor on the run.

We have to cement ourselves as a Victorian "Big" club in order to survive long term. Vlad is already talking 19 & 20 teams in the not to distant future.

We cannot be carried forever. So yes i think we need a mix.

The club should aim to win 10 Games next year, we may do it we may not but we have to start aiming high every year-starting now.

Yip ... Ok 2 more teams = two more competitors for some of the sponsorship $$$$$

In the past I think we have correctly avoided the "pragmatic" choices ... but this year I think, I'm not 100% convinced yet, we need to be more pragmatic with our choices.

Thanks for your reply

[dee-luded 2,959]

I think for 2010, 8 wins would be reasonable 'target'.

I think for 2011, 12 wins should be about the target.

2012 I reckon we will make a splash in the AFL pool & jump to 6th or 7th. From there I imagine other teams will be ageing out, & we should continue climbing, forging rivalries with the other up 'n' coming sides, west coke, the dons, the blues.

To me, I'm for taking as much young class as possible this year. Bugger the discards.

Next year (2010 draft) could be the right time for a couple of mature players.

Edited November 12, 2009 by dee-luded

[Guest hangon007]

we have been veryvery lucky to have scored the two sponsors we did...when we did.

They almost border on love jobs... well Hankook does in al honesty. Kasperky is visionary ( having been informed well )

Sponsors want exposure...generaly as long as its not detrimental its good. Whomever gets on board now ( sponsorship wise ) will get a very good ride. Results.. refer exposure.

However the thrust of my sentence was not narrowed to sponsors only. You will note I did agree with you ( lol ) that we might indeed have some time. Using that time is the key. We have started ahead of many teams in the rebuild. We are fortunate in our picks. No one other than the newbies will get anything like that for years ( if ever again ) . we have a window possibly to be a littel lateral if it suits.

Ok ... I hear you. But IMHO are we trying to "sell a vision" ... I believe in the vision & I think you do too ... as do many others.

However, we are biased. Does the "real" world honestly believe the "vision" we are trying to sell them?

Edited November 12, 2009 by hangon007

[Rogue 585]

Do we have to take some "here and now decisions" to try and accelerate the process.

You need to make the cake before you add the icing and we haven't even put it in the oven yet.

In the past I think we have correctly avoided the "pragmatic" choices ... but this year I think, I'm not 100% convinced yet, we need to be more pragmatic with our choices.

The only 'pragmatic' choice is to recognise our list isn't good enough, and won't be good enough, unless we unearth more young talent.

We also need to be 'pragmatic' and recognise that our opportunities to draft young talent in future years will be severely impacted by GC/WS, with our third pick likely to be in the vicinity of a pick most teams haven't even bothered to use in the past.

I'd prefer not to have a repeat of the post-2006 list management approach, whereby we embraced short-term gains even though they were never going to be good enough, and thus harmed our long-term prospects.

Particularly given the nature of future drafts, the only 'pragmatic' approach is to continue the course we've adopted in recent times.

we have been veryvery lucky to have scored the two sponsors we did...when we did.

They almost border on love jobs... well Hankook does in al honesty. Kasperky is visionary ( having been informed well )

Sponsors want exposure...generaly as long as its not detrimental its good. Whomever gets on board now ( sponsorship wise ) will get a very good ride. Results.. refer exposure.

The guy behind Hancook - iirc he's actually the local distributor of their tyres - said that in 2009 it was better to be sponsoring Melbourne than a team that was better but still not particularly good, such as North.

He didn't seem concerned about Melbourne's on-field struggles being 'detrimental' - instead, he felt it was excellent exposure.

[H_T 3,036]

You need to make the cake before you add the icing and we haven't even put it in the oven yet.

The only 'pragmatic' choice is to recognise our list isn't good enough, and won't be good enough, unless we unearth more young talent.

We also need to be 'pragmatic' and recognise that our opportunities to draft young talent in future years will be severely impacted by GC/WS, with our third pick likely to be in the vicinity of a pick most teams haven't even bothered to use in the past.

I'd prefer not to have a repeat of the post-2006 list management approach, whereby we embraced short-term gains even though they were never going to be good enough, and thus harmed our long-term prospects.

Particularly given the nature of future drafts, the only 'pragmatic' approach is to continue the course we've adopted in recent times.

The guy behind Hancook - iirc he's actually the local distributor of their tyres - said that in 2009 it was better to be sponsoring Melbourne than a team that was better but still not particularly good, such as North.

He didn't seem concerned about Melbourne's on-field struggles being 'detrimental' - instead, he felt it was excellent exposure.

Good post.

Can any Demon supporter imagine if our current list was the 2007 list, even 2006 list? We would be in diabolical shape as a club with two new franchises being born.

We need these picks (to continue the rebuild). Consider the early picks as the key ingredients in order to rise.

The sponsors signed on for what 3 year deals ? They will benefit soon enough I believe. As the players grow & develop, the relationship b/w club & sponsors may grow too. Might find a few wanting to jump aboard too.

[Gooner 9]

All clubs go through a period of development from time to time as they bottom out.

It's how the club manages this period that will determine their long-term success.

This draft is the last uncompromised draft, and despite the fact that we're still in a rebuilding phase. I think that it is important that we use the draft effectively to put the last touches of the core of the playing list for our next finals series.

Whilst we will be able to pick up a player or two over the next couple of years, and trade for players also. Our ability to pick up top quality players will be significantly diminished.

In summary, the GC17 & GWS18 teams will harm us, but I'd prefer to be at the end of a rebuilding stage, than at the beginning like Richmond, Sydney and the Kangaroos are.