I saw John Butcher kick 4 goals at Sandy on Saturday and after seeing him play 5 times this year,he is my pick 2.We have so many mids with Blease and Strauss to come and probably Grimes when he's ready.

Butcher is 197cm,takes a strong mark and is a very good,long kick and the kids only 17.Let him develop with his good mate,Watts,who was at Sandy on Saturday watching JB.As it was Sandy's last game,the u/18 team and Watts and Butcher celebrated together Saturday night at the Sandy Dragons players BBQ.

I really think a mid and KPF would be the best case scenario for us instead of 2 more mids.Richmond took 2 mids in Deledio and Tambling,when they should've taken 1 mid and 1 KPF in Roughead or Buddy.

This will be our last chance for a long time to pick up a 197cm key forward of Butcher's quality,we can pick more mids later in the draft and in the next few drafts.

Last year when all you guys were saying we must take Naitanui,i was the first guy to say we must take Jack Watts.

15 Years of Watts/Butcher/Jurrah

Trengove might want to go home in 2 years,a la Scotty Thompson.

Let's take the 2 Victorian's, Scully & Butcher.

agree mate which is why i opened up the Butcher shop thread

haha agree with all you said except the last part where you said the reason not to pick Trengove ( going home to SA). I dont worry about that at all. I just think the way your thinking with what we have and it would be better to draft 1 mid and 1 KP.

Thanks for the info about the BBQ also, did not know Watts was good mates with Butcher.

We should take the two best kids regardless of what position they play, in fact the worst thing we could possibly do is draft according to position. There are two midfielders in this years crop who have demonstrated their abilities at senior level, it will take a brave recruiter to pass on these guys for Butcher. I'm undecided whether it be brave or foolish.

With regards to our midfield, I'm far from convinced that the midfield we currently have is good enough to win a premiership and to rely on two kids who have yet to play at senior level and missed the majority of the season because of injury is fraught with danger. The reality is that neither Blease nor Strauss is guaranteed success.

I disagree!

I understand the desire for a 'twin towers' combination up forward in Watts and Butcher... it is mouth watering...

HOWEVER I think there is an important and common misconception on this forum.

The misconception is that it is easier to draft star midfielders than it is star key position players and therefore we can just hope to draft a star midfielder later in the draft.

Well guess what! It is not easy to draft a star midfielder. In fact, I don't think the demons have had a star midfielder in the 10 years I have supported the club. Proof of this is that the demons only 'midfielders' to make the AA team in the last decade was really only McDonald on the bench and Yze on a wing.

Premiership are won from top quality midfielders! That is a fact. Look at the last 7 years premiers FFS! Geelong, WCE, PortAdel, even Syd had Barry Hall as their single key forward. It is possible to win a premiership without a 'twin towers' combination.

Therefore we should pick Scully and Trengove, who also happen to be the best available at those picks.

We've got a gun backline. Let's create our gun midfield. Our forward line is also coming together...

Watts, Bate, Jurrah, Pettard, Sylvia, Wonaeamirri, Maric, Jetta... that's some serious talent. Just because they're not all 197cm, doesn't mean they won't create an extemely potent forward line.

this oppertunity will only come once, the choice is very important.

both Trengove and Butcher are worthy top 5 picks.

would like to see a Butcher, Jurrah and Watts forward line.

I disagree!

I understand the desire for a 'twin towers' combination up forward in Watts and Butcher... it is mouth watering...

HOWEVER I think there is an important and common misconception on this forum.

The misconception is that it is easier to draft star midfielders than it is star key position players and therefore we can just hope to draft a star midfielder later in the draft.

Well guess what! It is not easy to draft a star midfielder. In fact, I don't think the demons have had a star midfielder in the 10 years I have supported the club. Proof of this is that the demons only 'midfielders' to make the AA team in the last decade was really only McDonald on the bench and Yze on a wing.

Premiership are won from top quality midfielders! That is a fact. Look at the last 7 years premiers FFS! Geelong, WCE, PortAdel, even Syd had Barry Hall as their single key forward. It is possible to win a premiership without a 'twin towers' combination.

Therefore we should pick Scully and Trengove, who also happen to be the best available at those picks.

We've got a gun backline. Let's create our gun midfield. Our forward line is also coming together...

Watts, Bate, Jurrah, Pettard, Sylvia, Wonaeamirri, Maric, Jetta... that's some serious talent. Just because they're not all 197cm, doesn't mean they won't create an extemely potent forward line.

Dont you think the forwards you have named are a bit thin in the depth department.

Lets do that with midfield depth chart-

Brock, Beamer, Jones, Sylvia, Davey, Blease, Strauss, Jetta who looks HEAPS more comfortable in the middle, Morton, Dunn, Grimes, Buckley, Bartram ( if he remains), Valenti ( if he remains,) McKenzie, Bail, and Scully.

If we were say Richmond and starting a rebuild right now, i would agree with drafting the 2 best players no matter what the position. The reality is we are in the 3rd year of rebuild and i am confident of what the FD have put together in previous drafts. This is just a great situation we find ourselves in where we get the first two picks. We get Scully, the widely recognized best player in the draft, and draft a top 3 prospect in Butcher which will sure up our spine for many many years.

Our current midfield is young enough and have scope of getting better enough for me to have faith in what we have along with Scully.

But yeah i dont expect many to agree with me and its ok if thats the case. In the end i wont mind who we draft cause from that day i will back them in and support no matter what.

Team is bigger than individuals!

The life of a tall forward is made much easier when the delivery is spot on.

I am still torn between Butcher and Trengove but loving the position we are in.

Bring on 2010!

Hey guys ive been reading demonland for about two years now, and i have enjoyed reading everyones different opinions.

I think i can help with this topic! I was lucky enough to get invited into the rooms before the game on the weekend,

after about half an hour of being there i noticed John Butcher was in the rooms with his dad, brother and manager

and he was talking to Jack Watts. DB and CC went over and introduced themselves, and i then got a chance to speak

to Butchers dad, he sounded pretty keen for his son to come to Melbourne and stay in Victoria, he said " i think that melbourne could do with another tall forward" and also told me that Butcher is good friends with Watts which would

make it easier for him to fit in if he comes to Melbourne. I also herd his manager say to his dad "i think Melbournes

list is in front of Richmonds re-building wise".

Mousey,i didn't see your Butcher shop thread as it was down the the list and i've just read it and it's a great read.

Jarka,the best kid available-we didn't do this last year,we took Watts because of the hole left by Neitz,Robbo.We simply had to take Watts.

No doubt Trengove may add class to our midfield but our forward line isn't anywhere near good enough yet.

Watts and Jurrah are not full forwards and Bate is a third tall forward at best.

Newton will never make it at AFL level and Miller has done nothing in 6 years.

Butcher is a pack breaking full forward and at 197cm,he'll be hard to match up on and can take the forward line ruck duties when needed.

Add Scully to our developing midfield of Mclean,Jones,Moloney,Mcdonald,Blease,Strauss,Grimes,Dunn,Jetta,Sylvia and Green,Bruce,Davey can rotate through there.

Give me Watts,Butcher,Jurrah for the next 15 years.

Lets do that with midfield depth chart-

Brock, Beamer, Jones, Sylvia, Davey, Blease, Strauss, Jetta who looks HEAPS more comfortable in the middle, Morton, Dunn, Grimes, Buckley, Bartram ( if he remains), Valenti ( if he remains,) McKenzie, Bail, and Scully.

Brock - Went backwards this year, whether it be due to injury or something else he has planted the seed of doubt in our heads

Beamer - brilliant year, no problems here

Jones - Doubts still remain about his delivery and decision making

Sylvia - better suited to HFF, to occasionally pinch hit in the middle

Davey - B & F, no problems here

Blease - too early to tell, although the type of injury he has finished N Brown

Strauss - too early to tell

Jetta - Promising signs, bigger tank required and some bulk

Morton - too valuable elsewhere on the ground, could play any of 10 positions

Dunn - See Sylvia

Grimes - Will be a gun, lets hope and pray they can cure this back injury for good, no problems here

Buckley - may have been taken over by the young guys coming through

Bartram - Doubts over decision making and disposal

Valenti - Won't be around next year

McKenzie - Sore glimpses but not enough to be automatic selection

Bail - Does not look up to it, really struggled at Casey even playing Casey 2nd's

Scully - TBA

This tells me we really need to take 2 mids with our first 2 selections. I think with Watts, Jurrah, Wonna, Sylvia, Bate and co, in a couple of season there will be enough scoring otions there, just let them get used to playing with one another.

I hate it how people keep referring to Richmond taking two mids and this is why we should draft Butcher. It was a one off and I would hope we will take the best available, most likely being Scully and Trengove

Hey guys ive been reading demonland for about two years now, and i have enjoyed reading everyones different opinions.

I think i can help with this topic! I was lucky enough to get invited into the rooms before the game on the weekend,

after about half an hour of being there i noticed John Butcher was in the rooms with his dad, brother and manager

and he was talking to Jack Watts. DB and CC went over and introduced themselves, and i then got a chance to speak

to Butchers dad, he sounded pretty keen for his son to come to Melbourne and stay in Victoria, he said " i think that melbourne could do with another tall forward" and also told me that Butcher is good friends with Watts which would

make it easier for him to fit in if he comes to Melbourne. I also herd his manager say to his dad "i think Melbournes

list is in front of Richmonds re-building wise".

Very very very interesting! Thanks heaps for the info mate.

And deeflog.. Sylvia is better suited as a middle player- attributes of toughness, and ability to kick on both feet with good delivery. Occasional pinch hitting up forward.

Jones has worked on his disposal and i believe has improved alot from last year. Will continue to improve, still bloody young!

Buckley will be back mark my words. Had a shocking injury season which happens.

In the end everyone seems to latch on to one chosen kid and ride him to draft day which is fair enough. Everyone has different opinions. The footy department and recruiting staff will make the best decision in regard to the future structure of our footy side.

Like someone else said, we are in a win win situation.

I hate it how people keep referring to Richmond taking two mids and this is why we should draft Butcher. It was a one off and I would hope we will take the best available, most likely being Scully and Trengove

Someone with a brain. What Richmond did has no bearing on a draft some years later. It's stating the obvious to say that there will be different players available, but it seems it needs to be said.

The 2004 draft was virtually bereft of decent mids. Other than Deledio there is hardly a decent mid to come out of it, in fact other than a couple of guns it is a woeful draft. On the other hand this draft is a midfielders draft.

I'd be happy for Butcher to join the MFC, but not at pick 2. There are too many queries about him as a player. I want an out and out deadset gun at pick 2 and whilst there are no guarantees with whomever we choose there are too many doubts for me that Butcher is a sure fire thing.

Trengove or Morabito for me. I'd be happy with either. The groupthink doubts on Morabito's kicking is significantly over stated and usually peddled by people that haven't seen him play. I'm very bullish on Morabito as he's born for the modern game. He's a 190cm fast bull with X factor that will rip some games apart in the space of 10 minutes. He has the hallmarks of a star, imo.

I saw John Butcher kick 4 goals at Sandy on Saturday and after seeing him play 5 times this year,he is my pick 2.We have so many mids with Blease and Strauss to come and probably Grimes when he's ready.

Butcher is 197cm,takes a strong mark and is a very good,long kick and the kids only 17.Let him develop with his good mate,Watts,who was at Sandy on Saturday watching JB.As it was Sandy's last game,the u/18 team and Watts and Butcher celebrated together Saturday night at the Sandy Dragons players BBQ.

I really think a mid and KPF would be the best case scenario for us instead of 2 more mids.Richmond took 2 mids in Deledio and Tambling,when they should've taken 1 mid and 1 KPF in Roughead or Buddy.

This will be our last chance for a long time to pick up a 197cm key forward of Butcher's quality,we can pick more mids later in the draft and in the next few drafts.

Last year when all you guys were saying we must take Naitanui,i was the first guy to say we must take Jack Watts.

15 Years of Watts/Butcher/Jurrah

Trengove might want to go home in 2 years,a la Scotty Thompson.

Let's take the 2 Victorian's, Scully & Butcher.

You make a good case there and I share your views on Butcher –It seems a logical choice to take him in a combo with Scully, based on the fall of the cards in last years draft and needing to restore a little balance this year. I think you take too much of a risk waiting to see who falls through to 18th pick, and on the off chance that we do get access to another good tall at 18 – Go tall again. Good talls don’t seem to come around too often, a bit like a sea horse amongst fish.

I don't buy into the view that he has dropped down the rankings based on his 2009 form. The talent that he showed last year (in a stronger crop of draftees) surely hasn't just disappeared overnight.

I don't buy into the whole "too many midfielders" argument, the modern game has evolved to the point where you need to play more than one position at elite level. Say if we get the two best players in the draft which happen to be midfielders, then current players in the midfield need to learn some versatility in other positions or find themselves on the way out. Guys like Sylvia, Moloney, Grimes, Dunn and Davey have proved they are capable in a lot more positions around the ground than just the midfield and having another two of the best players (in any position!) coming into the league would only further our stocks. Pace and finesse all over the park is a lot more appealing than lanky forwards drafted for the sole purpose of playing forward.

Someone with a brain. What Richmond did has no bearing on a draft some years later. It's stating the obvious to say that there will be different players available, but it seems it needs to be said.

The 2004 draft was virtually bereft of decent mids. Other than Deledio there is hardly a decent mid to come out of it, in fact other than a couple of guns it is a woeful draft. On the other hand this draft is a midfielders draft.

I'd be happy for Butcher to join the MFC, but not at pick 2. There are too many queries about him as a player. I want an out and out deadset gun at pick 2 and whilst there are no guarantees with whomever we choose there are too many doubts for me that Butcher is a sure fire thing.

Trengove or Morabito for me. I'd be happy with either. The groupthink doubts on Morabito's kicking is significantly over stated and usually peddled by people that haven't seen him play. I'm very bullish on Morabito as he's born for the modern game. He's a 190cm fast bull with X factor that will rip some games apart in the space of 10 minutes. He has the hallmarks of a star, imo.

Here's a question? Do you think it possible that Morabito could actually be more suited to a forward role, given his x factor, speed, strength and marking. I noticed it mentioned elsewhere that he may be a little taller than 190cms or perhaps he is still growing.

I wonder whether he has been played out of position this year. Whether intentionally or not - A W.A effort to keep the lid on him perhaps?

If the Melbourne recruiters see him as an eventual forward option, maybe that adds further weight to his case at Pick 2. Anyone wonder the same thing?

Here's a question? Do you think it possible that Morabito could actually be more suited to a forward role, given his x factor, speed, strength and marking. I noticed it mentioned elsewhere that he may be a little taller than 190cms or perhaps he is still growing.

I wonder whether he has been played out of position this year. Whether intentionally or not - A W.A effort to keep the lid on him perhaps?

If the Melbourne recruiters see him as an eventual forward option, maybe that adds further weight to his case at Pick 2. Anyone wonder the same thing?

Trengove is also a capable forward - invited to draft camp under "Medium Forwards"

I don't buy into the whole "too many midfielders" argument, the modern game has evolved to the point where you need to play more than one position at elite level. Say if we get the two best players in the draft which happen to be midfielders, then current players in the midfield need to learn some versatility in other positions or find themselves on the way out. Guys like Sylvia, Moloney, Grimes, Dunn and Davey have proved they are capable in a lot more positions around the ground than just the midfield and having another two of the best players (in any position!) coming into the league would only further our stocks. Pace and finesse all over the park is a lot more appealing than lanky forwards drafted for the sole purpose of playing forward.

Good point aswell. Are you pro Trengove or Morabito?

Trengove is also a capable forward - invited to draft camp under "Medium Forwards"

Absolutely, but do you think he might get caught out a little for pace as a forward, seeing he is a little smaller?

I've changed direction some what today and am actually now leaning towards Butcher. However i really have no idea and will be happy with who ever we take. If there isn't much difference then needs is the way to go but if there is a big difference you really must go with best available.

Geelong have taken a heap of mids and on one hand they have/had possibly too many midfielders as they traded moloney and had to offload Prismall. On the other hand Kelly and Enright would probably be midfielders for most teams but give the Cats great service out of the backline, as does Chapman in forward line.

Its also easy to say Richmond got it wrong taking two mids however if a team had the first 5 picks in 2001 they would of got it right taking 5 mids with Hodge and Judd the first 2. While Polak was the first KPP taken.

IT was really a midfielders draft in 2001 which also had Ball, Bartel, Dal Santo, Mitchell,Ablett and Swan. The only really A grade KPP was Lake at 71. You cannot just invent a KPP if it isn't there.

I saw John Butcher kick 4 goals at Sandy on Saturday and after seeing him play 5 times this year,he is my pick 2.We have so many mids with Blease and Strauss to come and probably Grimes when he's ready.

Butcher is 197cm,takes a strong mark and is a very good,long kick and the kids only 17.Let him develop with his good mate,Watts,who was at Sandy on Saturday watching JB.As it was Sandy's last game,the u/18 team and Watts and Butcher celebrated together Saturday night at the Sandy Dragons players BBQ.

I really think a mid and KPF would be the best case scenario for us instead of 2 more mids.Richmond took 2 mids in Deledio and Tambling,when they should've taken 1 mid and 1 KPF in Roughead or Buddy.

This will be our last chance for a long time to pick up a 197cm key forward of Butcher's quality,we can pick more mids later in the draft and in the next few drafts.

Last year when all you guys were saying we must take Naitanui,i was the first guy to say we must take Jack Watts.

15 Years of Watts/Butcher/Jurrah

Trengove might want to go home in 2 years,a la Scotty Thompson.

Let's take the 2 Victorian's, Scully & Butcher.

No doubt on Scully

Your assement of Butcher has merit

Would have thought it was the better option going forward even though i think there are 2 - 3 better players than Butcher in the draft from what i have seen

Trengove or Morabito for me. I'd be happy with either.

H, right now who would you pick (im only asking because you've seen both)

people seem to be wanting this twin towers business. it is too risky.

our midfield really is D grade.

went backwards in 2009: Brock

decent quality:Beamer, Sylvia, Davey,Morton

almost there: Jones, Grimes (this is arguably a stretch),

big question marks: Dunn, Buckley, Bartram, Valenti

not proven: Blease, Strauss, Jetta, bennell McKenzie, Bail,

experience:bruce, green, macca.

that midfield list needs some serious quality injections. if the best two players are mids. take them.

IT was really a midfielders draft in 2001 which also had Ball, Bartel, Dal Santo, Mitchell,Ablett and Swan. The only really A grade KPP was Lake at 71. You cannot just invent a KPP if it isn't there.

That's an interesting point you make. In that case then you must see Butcher as a legit KPP and not an invent?

Where do you reckon Butcher rates on the Legit KPP scales if Watts was a ten for instance?

That's an interesting point you make. In that case then you must see Butcher as a legit KPP and not an invent?

Where do you reckon Butcher rates on the Legit KPP scales if Watts was a ten for instance?

Honestly i would have no idea if Butcher is a we need a kpp so pick and hope or a genuine top 2 prospect. Luckily for everyone i dont get to decide who we take. For the last month ive wanted Trengove today Butcher maybe im coming down with something.

People can list the 20 minfielders we currently have... all it does is get in the way of the truth.

The truth is that our midfield is AVERAGE AT BEST! Our midfield has been beaten week-in week-out. We get the fewest inside 50 entries in the afl. We are poor at clearences and we don't have even 1 star player in the midfield.

An A-grade midfield is what will win us a premiership.

An A-grade midfield makes good forwards look like great forwards. How do you think Cam Mooney would be playing if he was a demon? I'll tell you. CRAP.

Our forward line needs bolstering... true.

DO NOT pass on the best available player simply bc you like the idea of a 'twin towers'.

The one common denominator of every premiership is that they had absolute gun midfielders and at least 2 star midfielders (star= top 20 players in afl). Having a 'twin towers' combination is NOT a common denominator of all premiership teams. Just ask Cats, WCE, Sydney and PortAdelaide.

If Trengove is the second best player in the draft we'd be insane if we didn't take him. Full stop.