Jack Grimes

[rodent killer 0]

should get it this week

[Jaded No More 67,770]

You would hope so, but I doubt it.

He averages more kicks and marks than just about any other Rising Star nominee thus far.

That kid is something special!

Edit:

Before tonight's match:

Av. Disposals

Grimes: 19.3

Rich: 16.3

Zaharakis: 13.7

Hill: 14.5

Ziebell: 15.5

Av. Marks

Grimes: 6.8

Rich: 2.9

Zaharakis: 4.7

Hill: 2.9

Ziebell: 4.2

[Kiss of Death 732]

Should already have one, but won't get a nom. after the team's performance i'd say

[Ryan Dee 140]

That kid is something special!

On a bad day

[Deano74 156]

Grimes is One positive for the year

[Jaded No More 67,770]

Naitanui a shoe-in to get the Rising Star nomination.

3 goals after not touching it for 3 quarters will be enough.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

should get it this week

Nope. NickNat will get this one if Pears doesn't.

[Bagdana 58]

Jaded, I hope he does as he deserves one.

One the stats thing though, he does play off half back in a side which does tend to have it in its defensive half a hell of a lot of the time! This helps a bit.

Side note: One more one eyed Dees supporter. Born Thursday morning at 7.40am, Phoebe Mae. I brought her and my wife home today and had my new daughter on my chest throughout the match. I introduced her to the Dee's and I didn't get up to smash a thing!

You would hope so, but I doubt it.

He averages more kicks and marks than just about any other Rising Star nominee thus far.

That kid is something special!

Edit:

Before tonight's match:

Av. Disposals

Grimes: 19.3

Rich: 16.3

Zaharakis: 13.7

Hill: 14.5

Ziebell: 15.5

Av. Marks

Grimes: 6.8

Rich: 2.9

Zaharakis: 4.7

Hill: 2.9

Ziebell: 4.2

[demons27 1]

should get it this week

Agree entirely, he shows poise and good decision making well beyond his years....makes you question what the rest of the defence are doing when his star is shining so brightly.

[e25 5]

He won't though.

The criteria is maddeningly inconsistent and vague.

Last week Callan Ward for the doggies had 33 touches and was a driving force in their win, but instead it was given to Aaron Joseph who had 19 touches.

Bit like Jarryn Geary winning it a few weeks back with 17 touches when Jack had 25 odd.

Can't believe a system is so vague and undefined yet they allow betting on it.

Got $20 on Rich at 14-1 though to make up for the $20 I put on Grimes.

[True Believer 1]

He won't though.

The criteria is maddeningly inconsistent and vague.

Last week Callan Ward for the doggies had 33 touches and was a driving force in their win, but instead it was given to Aaron Joseph who had 19 touches.

Bit like Jarryn Geary winning it a few weeks back with 17 touches when Jack had 25 odd.

Can't believe a system is so vague and undefined yet they allow betting on it.

Got $20 on Rich at 14-1 though to make up for the $20 I put on Grimes.

not this week... rich or nat before him.

[e25 5]

not this week... rich or nat before him.

$20 on Rich to WIN the Rising Star, not get the nomination, that is.

Naitanui would have to get it this week, no contest

[Adelaide Demon 0]

Had some really bad clangers this week though. Still, one of half-a-dozen players who is showing glimpses of promise that our 2010 and 2011 will not be our 2008 and 2009.

[45HG 1,539]

I'd have to agree.

He's my boy, bloody love him, but some of his touches were shocking

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,383]

some of his touches were shocking

That's the disease you get when you play for Melbourne.

[Jarka 767]

That's the disease you get when you play for Melbourne.

He had some terrible turnovers that cost us goals. It was worse too because most of them was when he was in the clear.

Right now our defenders are bound to get alot of touches because A.The ball is down there for the majority of the game and B. Our game plan is to chip it around in the back half untill we create a loose player. The number of possessions Melbourne players get this year is mostly irrelevant and should not be used to argue that one of our kids should get a nomination. Naitanui deservers this week because he basically won the game for the Eagles last night, he won the ball through pure determination on several occasions and kicked goals in abysmal conditions when no one else could.

[Jaded No More 67,770]

Yes he made some bad errors, but his last two weeks has been very good in terms of disposal.

This kid, 7 games in, is under a phenomenal amount of pressure, often playing on the last line of defence, trying to move the ball forward.

I don't care if he makes a few mistakes by foot, if the idea behind the execution is good, which it is (much like Morton).

We need players who are not scared of taking the game on, and moving the ball forwards instead of sideways. Grimes fits the bill.

[Rogue 585]

I'd have to agree.

He's my boy, bloody love him, but some of his touches were shocking

Yep.

Unfortunately some supporters seem so enamoured in Grimes that they discard anything that doesn't fit their image of him.

Yes he made some bad errors, but his last two weeks has been very good in terms of disposal.

This kid, 7 games in, is under a phenomenal amount of pressure

The last two weeks he's also made some very bad errors when under little or no direct pressure.

It doesn't mean he's a bad footballer but having a balanced view doesn't hurt.

[Jaded No More 67,770]

Yep.

Unfortunately some supporters seem so enamoured in Grimes that they discard anything that doesn't fit their image of him.

Yes, we discard his poor disposal by saying "he made same bad errors"

FFS, he's a child playing in a backline that is getting pumped with top-class supply week after week.

That he makes mistakes by foot is disappointing, but not critical at this stage of his career, because you can tell that he is a very intelligent player and is usually a good user of the ball (as I said, he makes mistakes when under pressure, but so do all young kids).

If in three years time he is still making those mistakes, I'll start worrying about it. Right now, I am just impressed at how well he reads the ball, his courage, his marking ability and his intelligence. Few players in our team can boast that same list of talents.

That I choose to highlight his pluses, despite being aware of some of his downfalls right now, is a balanced and FAIR view of a player still learning.

[Rogue 585]

Yes, we discard his poor disposal by saying "he made same bad errors"

You've also suggested that his disposal over the last two weeks has been 'very good'.

Since he's made a few bad errors in both games over the last two weeks I don't think it has been 'very good' in the last two games.

You also excused it by talking up the pressure when many of the errors have been 'unforced'.

is usually a good user of the ball (as I said, he makes mistakes when under pressure, but so do all young kids).

Many of the bad errors I can recall have been under no direct pressure - unforced errors, if you like.

Mistakes under pressure aren't too much of an issue at this stage, but unforced errors are more of a concern.

as I said, he was very good with his kicking the last two weeks

I'd say a majority of his bad mistakes have been by foot.

That I choose to highlight his pluses, despite being aware of some of his downfalls right now, is a balanced and FAIR view of a player still learning.

Judged on its merits his disposal hasn't been 'very good'.

[Jaded No More 67,770]

You excused it by talking up the pressure, and furthermore suggested that his disposal over the last two weeks has been 'very good'.

Exhibit A:

I'd say a majority of his bad mistakes have been by foot.

How many of his kicks were bad mistakes?

He made 2 or 3 critical errors the last few weeks from memory. That is hardly devastating.

Davey made about 3 terrible errors by foot last night alone.

We expect players to be perfect from the word go, which is unrealistic. Morton turned it over a fair bit last year, but is getting a lot better now.

It is players who can't improve on those issues that become an issue. So let's discuss this in 2011.

[Rogue 585]

I'd say he made that many in each game the past two weeks.

Davey gets a heap more of the ball so even if he made the same number of errors the percentage would be less.

I certainly don't expect players to be perfect from the start so that's a strawman argument - I just don't think his disposal has been 'very good' the past two weeks.

It has nothing to do with how I rate him overall, or how I predict his disposal will be when he has a few seasons under his belt.

It is players who can't improve on those issues that become an issue. So let's discuss this in 2011.

If you're making the case that he deserves a Rising Star nomination this week, and that his disposal the past two weeks has been very good, isn't it a talking point now?

EDIT: As an aside - it's not really relevant to whether he deserves a rising star nomination this week - I like Grimes and think he'll be a player.

I haven't been overly fussed about his disposal errors but have to agree with AdelaideDemon and 45hotgood. His disposal will look good but then he'll make a really poor mistake, and often it'll be under little or no pressure.

The fact that he's making these mistakes under no pressure is the only concerning bit, and it's not a major concern at this stage of his career. The cause needs to be identified though. Given he often looks very compact perhaps it's just a concentration thing?

[Jaded No More 67,770]

If you're making the case that he deserves a Rising Star nomination this week, and that his disposal the past two weeks has been very good, isn't it a talking point now?

Are you just pretending to play dumb, or are you bored?

You can't be serious with that comment.

Did I say he shouldn't be a talking point now? No, I merely suggested that for a kid who has played less than 10 games, playing in a backline constantly under siege, his disposal and more importantly decision making (can't teach that skill!), has been very good.

If Davey, a senior player, can make 3 critical errors a game (he gets more of the ball, but he is also a lot more experienced than Grimes, so it evens out), and we can still say that his disposal and decision making is elite, than Grimes certainly deserves praise for his own ability to use the ball. No doubt that fatigue, perceived pressure, and fear of making a mistake is a major influence on his kicking right now.

In 2011, if he is still making critical errors on a regular basis, we can start to really criticise him for that.

P.S. - Disposal efficiency last night shows that Grimes was more efficient than Davey (81% vs. 74%). While those stats are not the be all and end all, they do show that disposal is not really a key worry for Grimes right now.

[Jarka 767]

P.S. - Disposal efficiency last night shows that Grimes was more efficient than Davey (81% vs. 74%). While those stats are not the be all and end all, they do show that disposal is not really a key worry for Grimes right now.

How many of Grimes' passes went 30m sideways while under no pressure?

How many of Davey's passes was forward of the centre to non-existant leading forwards?

Stats don't mean diddly squat, I'm not saying that he's a dud, that would be just silly. But it would also be silly to say that he's been very good because the reality is that he hasn't. He has been improving and that's all I expect of him this year. Don't build him up to something that he isn't.

[Rogue 585]

Did I say he shouldn't be a talking point now? No, I merely suggested that for a kid who has played less than 10 games, playing in a backline constantly under siege, his disposal and more importantly decision making (can't teach that skill!), has been very good. [...]

In 2011, if he is still making critical errors on a regular basis, we can start to really criticise him for that.

My reading of your post was that you were trying to dismiss any discussion of errors by suggesting we should not talk about his disposal for a couple of years. My point was that by asserting that Grimes' disposal over the past two weeks has been 'very good' it's a talking point now.

As I've said, I don't particularly mind that he's made some errors - although the fact that many of those are unforced is a slight concern - but judged on his merits his disposal hasn't been 'very good' the past two weeks (well, at least to AdelaideDemon, 45, myself et al.).

By the way, the fact that he's played less than 10 games is a weird excuse when we're talking about his performance in the context of the Rising Star - no other Rising Star contenders have played significantly more senior footy.

Regarding playing in a 'backline under siege', someone made a decent point regarding it giving him opportunity to find the footy more than he might have otherwise. While it does mean he's under pressure at times, many of his errors have been unforced (two in a couple of minutes v Ess at TD in the third quarter spring to mind).

P.S. - Disposal efficiency last night shows that Grimes was more efficient than Davey (81% vs. 74%). While those stats are not the be all and end all, they do show that disposal is not really a key worry for Grimes right now.

Morton turned it over a fair bit last year

DB highlighted Davey's elite foot skills following the Brisbane game. Either the DE stat is useless without context or DB should have been highlighting Grimes as our elite ball-user. I know which one I'm leaning towards.

In a similar vein, I see you mention the fact that Morton turned it over a bit last year. I haven't been able to find his DE from '08 (which site has DE stats from previous seasons?) but from memory, a couple of people who last year contended that Morton was using the ball very well relied on his flattering DE%.