Anyone for cricket?

[MadAsHell 4,212]

You're right HT, there's actually quite a few positives to come out of this tour. Apart from Lords it just seems we've lost the big moments in matches, crossed with some bad luck with the weather at both Old Trafford and here at The Oval.

Looks as though we're going to see a draw here as after Englands positive start, their run rate has now dropped under 4. 154 needed off 27 overs and 9 wickets in hand but we'll see. I'll give the match till at least 20 overs remaining before I potentially give up.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

Amazing finish as the match ends with England needing 21 off 4 overs with 5 wickets in hand due to bad light:

Stumps Day 5

Australia 1st Innings 9/492 dec

S. Watson 176

J. Anderson 4/95 (29.5)

England 1st Innings 377

J. Root 68

J. Faulkner 4/51 (19.4)

Australia 2nd Innings 6/111 (In 23 overs!)

M. Clarke 28*

S. Braod 4/43 (10)

England 2nd Innings 5/206 (Target 227 off 44 overs)

K. Pietersen 62

R. Harris 2/21 (5)

England not happy with Australia but after Manchester all I can say is karma's a b*tch!

But well done England on winning the Ashes 3-0 and well done on coming to the party in that sporting chase we set up for you.

[jazza 1,323]

always get a little worried when people count the catches taken by somebody with gloves on

although hes taken a couple of pearlers this series,which after 5 tests you get a few

its the 3 that he didn't move for that would be in the back of peoples minds

faukner looked ok

[titan_uranus 24,969]

England only have themselves to blame for running out of time. They dawdled all morning with no intent on a result. If it wasn't for Clarke, they wouldn't have been that close. Don't blame the umpires, have a look at yourselves, I'd say.

Clarke did the right thing, IMO. 4-0 compared to 3-0 is no difference, but he created buzz and could have won us the Test. Turns out our bowling was crap in the evening (Starc and Faulkner the biggest culprits I think) which gave up too many hittable deliveries, but we still took 6 wickets, 10 for the day.

In the end, of the five Tests we were in a winning position in three of them (Old Trafford, Chester-le-Street, The Oval), and could easily have won two of them (Old Trafford, where the rain thwarted us, and Chester-le-Street, where we should have been able to chase that score down). We didn't deserve to be as close as we were at Trent Bridge, but we could have won that too if little things had gone our way (e.g. Haddin not being given out on that evidence).

We were clearly outplayed at Lord's, but in the end I think it was much more competitive than the scoreline suggests, and it gives us hope for the return series. Mind you, if Harris goes down it's game over.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

Thought I'd post the link to Malcom Conn's report card of our players for the series.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/cricket/news-corp-senior-cricket-writer-malcolm-conn-rates-the-performances-of-australias-ashes-squad/story-fni2usfi-1226704557575

Pretty fair you'd have to say. Thought maybe Rogers could have managed a 7 out of 10 rather then 6 maybe. Otherwise no real suprises. Mentions Haddin was great with the gloves but struggled with the bat. And still a question mark on Nathan Lyon I noticed despite his impressive performance at Durham.

Makes me think that Lyon will need to perform in the first few tests (GABBA & Adelaide Oval) to avoid loosing his place to Agar (could come in for the WACA test) or Ahmed (could come in for Boxing Day) if they have good starts to the Shield season.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Fair assessments all around including Rogers and Lyon. Jury is still out on Lyon but there is no one better ATM.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

Jury is still out on Lyon but there is no one better ATM.

I still reckon Fawad Ahmed is better then Lyon. However I'm concerned that he's almost being set up to fail by playing in the upcoming ODI series as I think and his record suggest he's a much better bowler in the longer format of the game then the One Dayers.

Still, if he starts the Shield season well then he'll give himself every opportunity. I just hope he doesn't miss a large chunk of it by getting picked in the One Day tour of India which starts the same time as the Shield season. Very poorly organised that one!

[jazza 1,323]

Watson and Smith have both hit centuries right at the right time. Heard someone liken Watson to Marcus North - approaches being dropped, pulls a 100 out of nowhere, then (probably) proceeds to stink again. Hopefully Watson can actually convert this 100 into a run of form.

Rogers, Clarke, Smith and Watson form four of the top six (Rogers at 1, Watson at 3, Clarke at 4, Smith at 5). I'm not sold on Warner, but you'd assume he stays given how much the selectors love him, and the sixth spot is up for grabs. Come Brisbane, it won't be Faulkner. It probably won't be Khawaja either. It might be Hughes or Cowan, but they'll need to make some first class runs before the series.

As for the bowlers, Lyon clearly is our number one spinner, and that debate should be ended. In terms of pacemen, Harris and Siddle are the top two, with Pattinson IMO the third if fit. Starc is errant but has the advantage of being a leftie. Bird is back-up in the likely event Harris is injured some time between now and the Sydney test.

Haddin remains our keeper whilst his glovework continues to be of his high standard. Wade needs to learn to keep wicket if he wants to get back in.

So, Brisbane Test XI:

Rogers

Warner

Watson

Clarke

Smith

Hughes/Cowan/debutant batsman

Haddin

Siddle

Harris

Pattinson

Lyon

the right time to hit centuries is the start of a series not in dead rubbers,watto genius

btw TD , McGill spoke super highly of the ex paki leggie

Edited August 27, 2013 by jazza

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I still reckon Fawad Ahmed is better then Lyon. However I'm concerned that he's almost being set up to fail by playing in the upcoming ODI series as I think and his record suggest he's a much better bowler in the longer format of the game then the One Dayers.

Still, if he starts the Shield season well then he'll give himself every opportunity. I just hope he doesn't miss a large chunk of it by getting picked in the One Day tour of India which starts the same time as the Shield season. Very poorly organised that one!

I hope you are right that Ahmed is. Lyon is seat warming atm.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

btw TD , McGill spoke super highly of the ex paki leggie

Not wrong Jazza, I found a link to that article here:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket/the-ashes/stuart-macgill-says-fawad-ahmed-should-be-picked-for-ashes-tour-if-he-gets-an-australian-passport/story-e6frf3gl-1226613791486

I hope you are right that Ahmed is. Lyon is seat warming atm.

I'm pretty confident he is Rhino.

In his last 3 (being his first) Shield games of the season he took 16 wickets @ 28.38, two games at the G and one at Belrieve, neither of which are traditional spin friendly wickets like Sydney or Adelaide.

He did then struggle in his first two games with Australia A against Ireland and Glousta over in the UK in pretty ordinary conditions it must be said. Could possibly be put down to nerves also.

However in his last three First Class matches, one against a full strength Zimbabwe XI and the other two against a pretty handy South Africa A side he took 15 wickets @ 22.67.

Lyon will get first crack in Australia, and rightly so, probably the first three tests (GABBA, Adelaide Oval & WACA) but if he fails to deliver I can see a Fawad Ahmed Boxing Day debut.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Tall Defence

[jazza 1,323]

Australian cricket world collapses

fox sports both Mathew hayden and Damien fleming admit "we have a leadership problem MC

experts on cricket say that these 2 hacks don't know what their talking about

TD, weve pegged back the poms a little bit in the last 2 months

brizzy and perth now takes on monumental place in the next 3 years of aussie cricket

Edited August 27, 2013 by jazza

[Nasher 33,607]

the right time to hit centuries is the start of a series not in dead rubbers,watto genius

btw TD , McGill spoke super highly of the ex paki leggie

Ashley Mallett said Ashton Agar was easily the best spinner in Australia. He may be eventually, but he isn't yet. Shane Warne once said Bryce McGain was the best spinner in Australia. You might forgive me if I don't take MacGill's word as gospel.

[jazza 1,323]

same nasher

me thinks the way selectors are devoid of brains atm ,

cant believe the best spinner in oz ,yes I know LYON was dropped for an untried 19yo

now they are pushing paki whatshisname and agar and lyon

whoever gets job will know its only for 3 tests max

and looking over their shoulder will be,krazia,beer and some unknown left handed round the wicket vunderkind from the bush to take their place

oh and god forgive if one of these spinners makes runs or takes a good catch in slips,=6 tests

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Not wrong Jazza, I found a link to that article here:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket/the-ashes/stuart-macgill-says-fawad-ahmed-should-be-picked-for-ashes-tour-if-he-gets-an-australian-passport/story-e6frf3gl-1226613791486

Lyon will get first crack in Australia, and rightly so, probably the first three tests (GABBA, Adelaide Oval & WACA) but if he fails to deliver I can see a Fawad Ahmed Boxing Day debut.

I think that Lyon is a step by step case and is not guaranteed three Tests. For example if he was savaged at the GABBA by Pietersen then I reckon he's out.

His past treatment by selectors suggests he has few credits and much improvement to make.

I think Ahmed is the next cab. I think Agar is a player of the future but I am just not that sold on the success of finger spinners in this country. You have to be really good to do well.

There are a number of finger/orthodox spinners that have come to Australia and died by a thousand cuts!! (and pulls!)

If Agar can rise above that then well and good but I think he is a long way off.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

I think that Lyon is a step by step case and is not guaranteed three Tests. For example if he was savaged at the GABBA by Pietersen then I reckon he's out.

His past treatment by selectors suggests he has few credits and much improvement to make.

I think Ahmed is the next cab. I think Agar is a player of the future but I am just not that sold on the success of finger spinners in this country. You have to be really good to do well.

There are a number of finger/orthodox spinners that have come to Australia and died by a thousand cuts!! (and pulls!)

If Agar can rise above that then well and good but I think he is a long way off.

That's a pretty fair call Rhino, and history backs you up. As all of our best spinners have been wrist spinners rather then finger spinners. The only really good finger spinner we've ever had that I can think of is Hugh Trumble from several eras back. Where as on the flip side there's the likes of Warne, O'Reilly, Grimmett, Benaud, MacGill etc.

And elsewhere I find this really sad:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket/the-ashes/brett-lee-calls-for-reinstatement-of-mitchell-johnson-to-australian-test-side/story-e6frf3gl-1226705909564

Clearly Brett Lee has lost his grip on reality and he needs to be supported by close friends and well wishes to make sure he gets back to a much better mental state and isn't as dilusional as he clearly is right now....

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

That's a pretty fair call Rhino, and history backs you up. As all of our best spinners have been wrist spinners rather then finger spinners. The only really good finger spinner we've ever had that I can think of is Hugh Trumble from several eras back. Where as on the flip side there's the likes of Warne, O'Reilly, Grimmett, Benaud, MacGill etc.

And elsewhere I find this really sad:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket/the-ashes/brett-lee-calls-for-reinstatement-of-mitchell-johnson-to-australian-test-side/story-e6frf3gl-1226705909564

Clearly Brett Lee has lost his grip on reality and he needs to be supported by close friends and well wishes to make sure he gets back to a much better mental state and isn't as dilusional as he clearly is right now....

If we had a full fit list of bowlers, MJ is finished. But we don't and if Harris and Starc join the injury list as it stands and MJ does well at Shield level at the right time then.....

I don't like it but there you have it. Scary.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Ashley Mallett said Ashton Agar was easily the best spinner in Australia. He may be eventually, but he isn't yet. Shane Warne once said Bryce McGain was the best spinner in Australia. You might forgive me if I don't take MacGill's word as gospel.

McGill is very good on the red wines......

I thought Mallett was the best finger/front of hand spinner that I have seen play for Australia. Tim May had one good season then was washed away when Warne came along. Other than that they have been pretty forgettable.

[jazza 1,323]

oooohhhhh TD they've all forgotten ray bright

bit like ranga McDonald, playing for vics for 18 years and a handful of tests along the way

gee the one dayers will be exciting.pffffffffffffffft

[Little Richard 6,261]

Everyone seems to be forgetting Borders left arm hand grenades! Deadly at his best.

[H_T 3,043]

Everyone seems to be forgetting Borders left arm hand grenades! Deadly at his best.

Border had the 'golden arm' as a close in fields man affecting many run outs.

Handy with the odd over or two with the ball. But deadly?

[MadAsHell 4,212]

oooohhhhh TD they've all forgotten ray bright

bit like ranga McDonald, playing for vics for 18 years and a handful of tests along the way

Ray Bright was a reasonable bowler jazza, but 53 wickets in 25 tests @ 41.13 isn't anything to get to excited about. In fact we've never had a left arm spinner get to 100 test wickets and I'm pretty sure Hugh Trumble is the only right arm off break bowler we've had that has got past 100 test wickets and his last test match was in 1904!

As Rhino said Australian conditins suit the leg break spinners which is why our best spinners Warne, O'Reilly, Grimmett, Benaud and MacGill were all leg break bowlers. Trumble being the exception of course. This is why Fawad Ahmed is probably our best prospect at the moment, however going forward look out for the development of both Adam Zampa who's now on South Australia's list and should hopefully get more Shield matches there and James Muirhead for Victoria, who if Fawad Ahmed is selected for Australia, should get some opportunities with the Vics. Although he'll have to battle for a spot with John Holland. Muirhead had a very good season in district cricket last summer.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Ray Bright was a reasonable bowler jazza, but 53 wickets in 25 tests @ 41.13 isn't anything to get to excited about. In fact we've never had a left arm spinner get to 100 test wickets and I'm pretty sure Hugh Trumble is the only right arm off break bowler we've had that has got past 100 test wickets and his last test match was in 1904!

As Rhino said Australian conditins suit the leg break spinners which is why our best spinners Warne, O'Reilly, Grimmett, Benaud and MacGill were all leg break bowlers. Trumble being the exception of course. This is why Fawad Ahmed is probably our best prospect at the moment, however going forward look out for the development of both Adam Zampa who's now on South Australia's list and should hopefully get more Shield matches there and James Muirhead for Victoria, who if Fawad Ahmed is selected for Australia, should get some opportunities with the Vics. Although he'll have to battle for a spot with John Holland. Muirhead had a very good season in district cricket last summer.

Good post TD. After debuting in 1973 as a 19 yo, Candles Bright never really cracked it at Test level. Lack of variation and the absence of a killer trick really limited him at the top level. I can recall one Ashes tour where Bright and Skull OKeeffe shared the spin bowling and I was sure neither spun one ball of the track and the Poms could play them blind folded.

Nevertheless, Bright was a great Victorian player and Captained the side to a title if I recall correctly. Very competitive at Shield level and a plucky lower order batsman. Actually played the Madras Tied Test where he battled through with gastro (like a number of the team).

I look forward to tracking Ahmed through the early Shield rounds.

[Little Richard 6,261]

Border had the 'golden arm' as a close in fields man affecting many run outs.

Handy with the odd over or two with the ball. But deadly?

Just a joke, he did get 11 in a test once though.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/current/story/667951.html

White no longer Victorian captain and Matthew Wade now has the job. Shipperd trying to give Wade some leadership experience to get him back into the Australian XI do we think?

[Little Richard 6,261]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/current/story/667951.html

White no longer Victorian captain and Matthew Wade now has the job. Shipperd trying to give Wade some leadership experience to get him back into the Australian XI do we think?

Could be on the money there. White might not have been going places so perhaps Cricket Australia got into Shipperd's ear.

This development wouldn't surprise me from Shipperd - during this preseason my cricket club had a workshop with him at the G. A very impressive individual... extremely professional, all about getting better and setting higher standards for yourself.

Hopefully Wade benefits from this, I never thought of him as captaincy material though.