They saw out overs without purpose, and when they attempted to change the course of the innings, they were found wanting which is understandable.

What frustrated me was when they looked like building a partnership, they didn't seem to try to tick the scoreboard over.

Yeah, it's frustrating how many teams don't seem to do the basics right.

Whether it's positioning of the slip cordon or running between the wickets they constantly put themselves at a disadvantage.

Bond should be allowed back

I agree.

It was weak for NZ to give in to the BCCI, but they're not in a strong position at the negotiating table so I can understand the capitulation even though I don't agree with it.

He shouldn't be batting at No.7.

NZ know this, and McCullum knows this. That's why he was batting at #5 previously.

Fwiw, I don't think he should open, but he can be wasted at #7 (particularly when you've got a tail like NZ do atm).

In fact I dont like the concept of keepers being Test opening batsman. After a hard slog in the field it must be hard to have the necessary application to see off the new ball.

I agree.

1/ McCullum opens in the one day format.

2/ He is one of the most exciting batsmen in the world when in full flight

3/ He and apart from Vettori would be the only players eligible for qualification of being "world class"

4/ If I can't convince you for McCullum to open, I can negotiate for him to come in at 3 or 4. But no way No.7. Or dare I say it "6" (sux).

No7 is a bit harsh. How about 5? I like McCullum but I dont think his game is tight enough for spots 1 to 4. And that is recognising that existing NZ options dont have it either. i dont want to unnecessarily want to sacrifice him higher. FWIW I am happy with Taylor who is 24 at No 4. He is a capable batsman if he can develop the application required.

I dont argue with points 2 and 3 and I note we agree on the opening issue.

No7 is a bit harsh. How about 5? I like McCullum but I dont think his game is tight enough for spots 1 to 4. And that is recognising that existing NZ options dont have it either. i dont want to unnecessarily want to sacrifice him higher. FWIW I am happy with Taylor who is 24 at No 4. He is a capable batsman if he can develop the application required.

I dont argue with points 2 and 3 and I note we agree on the opening issue.

Yes, No.5 is ok I guess. Just. I've come down in price...

When examining the NZ batting line up, Kerry O'Keeffe suggested that Sundries bat at 4 as it always gets to double figures and is normally unbeaten.

And no, I'm not writing Lee off.

Fine, but I hate the amount of [censored] he has had to wear so easily and so readily over his career, he deserves better......

I know Brett pretty well and he is suffering through a truly crap time in his life, and I get protective cause I hate to see him continually busting his hump and getting abused wherever he goes with little or no understanding or an ounce of sympathy for what he has done over the last year or what he is going through.

I know to the outside only the match day figures count, and yes I do concede that his form in India was, despite the hard work he was putting in, shocking, but he was not alone and I will never understand why people will call for his head before any others seem to come into the equation.

I honestly didn't think that his bowling in Brisbane was terribly bad, especially in the first innings and especially considering he was still battling, badly over the virus he contracted. The second innings was ordinary, but outside factors such as fitness do and should play a part but they always seems to be forgotten.

He gets no margin for error in the press or in here apparently and I believe he deserves and has more than earned better than that.

And despite my personal connection I do not think that he will get dropped, nor should be unless things had gone from bad to a hell of a lot worse.

Queen, better hope he doesn't have one more bad test, or he'll be in trouble again!

I know, as I said he gets not margin for error......

And despite my personal connection I do not think that he will get dropped, nor should be unless things had gone from bad to a hell of a lot worse.

I think think you will find that is the argument your so called "Lee bashers" are making.

No one doubted his effort or character. However in Test cricket you are judged on results. Its cruel at the top.

Its good he got back his rhythm. He must maintain it as a fit and firing Lee will be important for Ashes 09.

He needs to back up one good Test with a good series against SA.

By the way your personal connection blinds a more objective analysis of his position and his career. He has been a great servant of Australian cricket but his career has been marked by a number of significant highs and lows.

Fine, but I hate the amount of [censored] he has had to wear so easily and so readily over his career, he deserves better......

I know Brett pretty well and he is suffering through a truly crap time in his life, and I get protective cause I hate to see him continually busting his hump and getting abused wherever he goes with little or no understanding or an ounce of sympathy for what he has done over the last year or what he is going through.

I know to the outside only the match day figures count, and yes I do concede that his form in India was, despite the hard work he was putting in, shocking, but he was not alone and I will never understand why people will call for his head before any others seem to come into the equation.

I honestly didn't think that his bowling in Brisbane was terribly bad, especially in the first innings and especially considering he was still battling, badly over the virus he contracted. The second innings was ordinary, but outside factors such as fitness do and should play a part but they always seems to be forgotten.

He gets no margin for error in the press or in here apparently and I believe he deserves and has more than earned better than that.

And despite my personal connection I do not think that he will get dropped, nor should be unless things had gone from bad to a hell of a lot worse.

I'm very surprised if he's getting abused wherever he goes. He doesn't deserve that if it's true.

IMO QueenC, had he failed to get a wicket in Adelaide he would of gone very close to being dropped. But that's all water under the bridge now. He looked much sharper and his old self at Adelaide. He was even the one bowler to extract reverse swing on the Adelaide pitch in the Test.

Just remember its just an opinion QueenC.

I understand the difficulty he must be going off the field, especially with the demands and consumed time of the travelling & playing, etc with the Australian Cricket Team. And I hope things turn for the better in that regard. I also understand the virus and fitness thing. It was my opinion at the time he should have been rested after the India tour too. That would have been the smartest thing to do I believe. It also would have given him more time to be with his child.

M.Clarke also suffered from a virus, and I believe should have been rested too. As it turned out he played one of the better innings for the Aussies.

Fwiw, I'm not attacking him personally or anything for he's one of the best bowlers Australia has produced. I hope he goes on to have a bumper summer.

By the way your personal connection blinds a more objective analysis of his position and his career.

There is absolutely no doubt about that at all !!!

I still think he has been one of the best bowlers we have produced but I agree he has had a roller coaster of a time.

I almost hope he has a poor WA test, just to see what you two say

I almost hope he has a poor WA test, just to see what you two say

I have already said he would be judged on the SA series.

HT then

No7 is a bit harsh. How about 5? I like McCullum but I dont think his game is tight enough for spots 1 to 4. And that is recognising that existing NZ options dont have it either. i dont want to unnecessarily want to sacrifice him higher. FWIW I am happy with Taylor who is 24 at No 4. He is a capable batsman if he can develop the application required.

Seems as though the NZ selectors have recognised that the team they used here won't cut it, as there have been many changes made to their team for the upcoming series they have against West Indies. Chris Martin, Tim Southee, Grant Elliot, Aaron Redmond and Peter Fulton were all dropped from the squad.

Firstly, let's not forget that they didn't have Jacob Oram (who returns to the team). With Oram, they could have batted McCullum at 5.

There's talk on cricinfo that Ryder will be either dropped or moved from no. 3, and Flynn will play at 3. IMO, Ryder at 3 doesn't work. His style isn't suited to situations where NZ is 1/not much, with the ball only 5-10 over old. Ryder I think would do better down the order. So maybe it will be Flynn at 3, Taylor at 4, McCullum at 5, Ryder 6, Oram 7. I think the NZ team does have some good players looking to the future. Taylor has no. 4 down solid. Flynn will make a good batsman with time, McCullum and Vettori are world-class, Oram not too far behind. It's all a matter of getting a settled team with the right batsmen in the right posiitions.

HT then

I've already stated my opinions, I hope those fence pailings don't have to many splinters...

I just hope you don't trip on the fence while jumping over each side!

I just hope you don't trip on the fence while jumping over each side!

Sometimes it's fun to jump over when form warrants it, like I have stated repeatedly he needed to turn his form around pronto. At least I'm not stuck on the fence.

I'm not on any fence, I've been happy for him to continue playing.

And if I wasn't, it'd take more than one and a half innings to change my mind

I'm not on any fence, I've been happy for him to continue playing.

And if I wasn't, it'd take more than one and a half innings to change my mind

A tour of India and one test at home doesn't really equate to one and a half innings 45hotgod...

Let's drop this stoush, what do you think of Watson coming back into the line up?

Or, Andrew Hilditch's description of Perth as a wicket that takes spin? I'm a little bemused by his comments. Perth is definitely not renowned for being conducive to "Spin". To me, the only spin on offer were Andrew Hilditchs words yesterday.

I quite seriously do not rate Watson.

If i were a question of dropping Krejza (Hauritz) for someone, why not bring in Siddle? I'm not a big fan of playing two all rounders, especially when they aren't demanding a spot for each capability (i.e. being a pretty good batsman and a pretty good bowler I don't think cuts it).

We need to figure out what we want, a strong batting line up that's possibly short a bowler, or a good bowling line up that may leave our middle order open.

We've shown we're happy to not play a spinner, and we do still have Clarke and Symonds, along with Katich, who can bowl a bit of spin.

Personally, Krejza is yet to cement his spot for mine and I don't really rate Hauritz. Krejza though does deserve the right to try and cement his spot, and you can only do this by playing test matches consistently (yes I've changed my tact a little ).

However, if he were to be dropped because of the pace friendly wicket, I'd rather we took full advantage and played our best back up pacemen, not a decent bowler who can bat a bit. After all, we have one of the best tails I've seen in recent memory

However, if he were to be dropped because of the pace friendly wicket, I'd rather we took full advantage and played our best back up pacemen

I agree.

I quite seriously do not rate Watson.

If i were a question of dropping Krejza (Hauritz) for someone, why not bring in Siddle? I'm not a big fan of playing two all rounders, especially when they aren't demanding a spot for each capability (i.e. being a pretty good batsman and a pretty good bowler I don't think cuts it).

We need to figure out what we want, a strong batting line up that's possibly short a bowler, or a good bowling line up that may leave our middle order open.

We've shown we're happy to not play a spinner, and we do still have Clarke and Symonds, along with Katich, who can bowl a bit of spin.

Personally, Krejza is yet to cement his spot for mine and I don't really rate Hauritz. Krejza though does deserve the right to try and cement his spot, and you can only do this by playing test matches consistently (yes I've changed my tact a little ).

However, if he were to be dropped because of the pace friendly wicket, I'd rather we took full advantage and played our best back up pacemen, not a decent bowler who can bat a bit. After all, we have one of the best tails I've seen in recent memory

I'm basically with you on all those points 45. If the selectors recognise we need another paceman, then Siddle should be playing. I thought he was quite good in Mohali.

If Krejza's fit, though, I think he should play. With Lee, Johnson and Clark, I think we can afford a spinner.

For mine, Stuart Clark's spot in the team should be brought into harsher consideration. If he doesn't do something on the WACA pitch, I'd look to swapping him out for Siddle/Watson. At 33, there isn't much of a future in him.

Or, Andrew Hilditch's description of Perth as a wicket that takes spin? I'm a little bemused by his comments. Perth is definitely not renowned for being conducive to "Spin". To me, the only spin on offer were Andrew Hilditchs words yesterday.

Perth is no longer a fast bowlers wicket and has not been for nearly 15 years. If anything its a batsmans wicket.

Without hearing Hilditch's words, I would suggest he is keeping his options open.

Hauritz is bench warming for Krejza whose injured ankle has relied undermined the objectives of getting overs into Krejza. The Adelaide Test would have been perfect build up for him.

If Krejza's fit, though, I think he should play. With Lee, Johnson and Clark, I think we can afford a spinner.

Agree.

For mine, Stuart Clark's spot in the team should be brought into harsher consideration. If he doesn't do something on the WACA pitch, I'd look to swapping him out for Siddle/Watson. At 33, there isn't much of a future in him.

Clark could be very very important on the Ashes tour. His tight line to line bowling is a compliment to the more aggressive style of Lee and Johnson. His position is underrated.

If Krejza's fit, though, I think he should play. With Lee, Johnson and Clark, I think we can afford a spinner.

I think Krejza will play. We probably need him in just to keep up with the over rate.

Seriously, if Krejza is fit, he should play. I agree with Rhino with regards to the Ashes and Clark. Good line and length is a pre-requisite.

He has a good record. Perth I think will suit him into the 'Fremantle doctor' too. A bit of swing would be nice. Whereas Lee and Johnson don't really generate much of that.

Does anyone think Siddle is a chance for the line-up? He can swing it a mile.

I think Krejza will play. We probably need him in just to keep up with the over rate.

Seriously, if Krejza is fit, he should play. I agree with Rhino with regards to the Ashes and Clark. Good line and length is a pre-requisite.

He has a good record. Perth I think will suit him into the 'Fremantle doctor' too. A bit of swing would be nice. Whereas Lee and Johnson don't really generate much of that.

Does anyone think Siddle is a chance for the line-up? He can swing it a mile.

I thought one of Johnsons strengths is the ball he swings to slips against the right hander. I agree about Lee. And yes you would start Clark into the breeze on opening.

Former spinner Pat Symcox slams cocky countrymen

The above is a link to Pat Symcox's views on South Africa. He doesn't mind criticising his own country now and again. The Sth Africans have come over with confidence in dismantling Australia. This type of news will go down like a lead balloon in the Sth African changerooms...