Like every one else it pains me to see our club as it is.

l would like to no who is at fault for were we are right now.

our list is not that bad or that old last year everyone said it was the injurys that blow our year .

well is that still the case. l,m sorry to be crying out just like every one else

Daniher did so much for the club and played in a lot of finals under him and when he was let go l thought it was about time.

he got all he could out of the team.

Bailey has just started the team on his game plan and ways and l wish him all the best but what has gone wrong ?

one of these men are to blame But who all l can say right now is l,m glad Sheedy never got the job 4 it would have been a very very bad way for him to leave football.

Its Bailey

Taking the club great places but...

Our list is a long kicking list n under Daniher we would of been doing better this year. but in long run Bailey would win more games

Perhaps Daniher may have gotten more out of the list than Bailey this year, who knows. But Bailey is building a team for the future and a better culture, something that Daniher didn't do.

I'm veyr happy with the change in coaching appointment, even though I wanted Sheedy.

one of these men are to blame

I don't know that that's the truth. Gone are the days when the coach was the be all end all of the club...

But if you're looking for a simple answer, I think you touched on it. The list is not that bad, and not too old... they're just too young...

When Carlton were at their lowest ebb a couple of years ago, I always wondered why they wandered around with a dumb grin on their faces. It was because they knew that with the recruiting that was going on, they were going to have the most envied list going around before too long. They were at the bottom rung of a ladder that they knew they were going to climb...

We're not quite the same as that, but after the mediocrity of the last 8 years, I'm just glad we're not using quick-fixes (mostly anyway) and we're putting McLean, Jones and Moloney in the guts... playing Morton as much as we can, giving Garland and Warnock the big jobs... Every week there's a Bode, Buckley, Valenti having a crack... Now not all of them are going to impress. Some are going to frustrate... Par for the course is for them to come in and be beaten...

Give them enough years and they'll turn a couple of good games a year into 5 or 6... then 10-12, then if we're lucky, when they're in their late twenties THEY'LL represent the core of a good side, and the new 21 year olds that come in to replace them will not have to suffer the tags and punishment the young players are receiving now. You think the Hawkins, Varcoes and the like would be having as much of a good time without the Ottens and Mooneys of this world?

So in short, Bailey is to blame, but I'm sure he'll wear that, as its all a means to an end.

Like every one else it pains me to see our club as it is.

l would like to no who is at fault for were we are right now.

our list is not that bad or that old last year everyone said it was the injurys that blow our year .

well is that still the case. l,m sorry to be crying out just like every one else

Daniher did so much for the club and played in a lot of finals under him and when he was let go l thought it was about time.

he got all he could out of the team.

Bailey has just started the team on his game plan and ways and l wish him all the best but what has gone wrong ?

one of these men are to blame But who all l can say right now is l,m glad Sheedy never got the job 4 it would have been a very very bad way for him to leave football.

I'm sick of people saying that this coach or that coach did so much, oh & we got into the finals, well big deal. Making the 8 in a 16 team competion isn't saying much.

The coaches job is a responsibility to recruit the necessary types, develope them & get them to perform onfield. If after 10 years of rebuilding upon rebuilding that we have nothing then the coach & footy dept' head are not much chop.

The soft insipid brand of footy played over the last recent years is a disgrace. Compare to Brisbane lions &/or Kangroos & SEE the differance. Even our better players have to go to finishing school like little boys to become men under LEIGH MATTHEWS..

SEE THE TRUTH!

I'm sick of people saying that this coach or that coach did so much, oh & we got into the finals, well big deal. Making the 8 in a 16 team competion isn't saying much.

The coaches job is a responsibility to recruit the necessary types, develope them & get them to perform onfield. If after 10 years of rebuilding upon rebuilding that we have nothing then the coach & footy dept' head are not much chop.

The soft insipid brand of footy played over the last recent years is a disgrace. Compare to Brisbane lions &/or Kangroos & SEE the differance. Even our better players have to go to finishing school like little boys to become men under LEIGH MATTHEWS..

SEE THE TRUTH!

Other players of different quality grades to have sucessfully moved on @ other clubs :-

TJ, D Jolly, T Simmons, Scott Thompson, etc, please add here >.....

we've under performed since the early- mid nineties.

Daniher's presence here was overrated. He drafted poorly, wasn't strict enough and was too friendly with players. People say he did a lot for the club off-field. How so? If not for the AFL's injections, we'd have been in the red still, even after he became the reverend.

He was coach of the MFC for 3 seasons too many. He should have been sacked after 2003.

I don't know that that's the truth. Gone are the days when the coach was the be all end all of the club...

But if you're looking for a simple answer, I think you touched on it. The list is not that bad, and not too old... they're just too young...

When Carlton were at their lowest ebb a couple of years ago, I always wondered why they wandered around with a dumb grin on their faces. It was because they knew that with the recruiting that was going on, they were going to have the most envied list going around before too long. They were at the bottom rung of a ladder that they knew they were going to climb...

We're not quite the same as that, but after the mediocrity of the last 8 years, I'm just glad we're not using quick-fixes (mostly anyway) and we're putting McLean, Jones and Moloney in the guts... playing Morton as much as we can, giving Garland and Warnock the big jobs... Every week there's a Bode, Buckley, Valenti having a crack... Now not all of them are going to impress. Some are going to frustrate... Par for the course is for them to come in and be beaten...

Give them enough years and they'll turn a couple of good games a year into 5 or 6... then 10-12, then if we're lucky, when they're in their late twenties THEY'LL represent the core of a good side, and the new 21 year olds that come in to replace them will not have to suffer the tags and punishment the young players are receiving now. You think the Hawkins, Varcoes and the like would be having as much of a good time without the Ottens and Mooneys of this world?

So in short, Bailey is to blame, but I'm sure he'll wear that, as its all a means to an end.

haven't been on here long but this is the most sensible post i have seen. absolutely spot on.

our list is not that bad or that old last year everyone said it was the injurys that blow our year .

Not 'everyone' said it was just injuries - we were so over-rated after the 2006 season (yes, I said it at the time).

This is primarily ND's list - ignoring first-year players who can't be expected to have a great impact - and they're not performing. Our senior players, who would have played pretty much their whole careers under ND, are maligned for a lack of leadership etc, and have been for some time. Again, these aren't DB's creation.

Responsibility for delistring and trades coming into this year can be placed at the feet of DB, and I think it's fair to argue that we could be more competitive if we'd had guys like TJ, Brown, etc. However, I'm entirely happy with the tack we took in that regard. We now play a team with 17 players under 24, and have to expect it to be a painful and at times unpleasant ride.

I wouldn't so much say Daniher is 'to blame', but obviously the situation we found ourselves in at the start of the 'Bailey Era' is the situation we were left with when Daniher finished.

Daniher attempted to win a premiership, and recruited some veterans with that in mind - Bizzell, Read, Holland and Pickett most obviously - possibly at an overly high price in some cases. He also held onto other veteran players which we my have been tempted to delist earlier if we'd been thinking more long term - Ward, Brown, Nicholson. The last few years before the changeover saw very limited turnover, only the minimum three or four picks each draft.

In the end, we've been left with an odd demographic with a clump of older players now retiring or about to retire, plus a big wave of younger players from last years (and this years, and next years) drafts. The older players have also not being performing at an elite level in many cases, which has hurt.

So, Daniher's objectives see us in the crapper now, but I can't have a problem with the man for putting everything into trying to win a premiership.

To blame Bailey after half a season is a little silly though. Makes more sense to blame Riley (the bastard cost us pick 17 last year and the extra pick at 1 this year, with his stupid beating of Carlton and the Dogs.)

Makes more sense to blame Riley (the bastard cost us pick 17 last year and the extra pick at 1 this year, with his stupid beating of Carlton...

He defected to them almost immediately after that "win" too... :angry:

How about you guys let Bailey build the team that he wants before you hang him.

He is already off to a great start, getting rid of the likes of Ward, Godfrey, Bizzell and Brown and replacing them in the twam with guys like Garland, Buckley, Wonemarri, Warnock etc.. and trading TJ for pick 14.

Bailey will build a very good list, that will actually contain some quality KPP's.

Daniher's presence here was overrated. He drafted poorly, wasn't strict enough and was too friendly with players. People say he did a lot for the club off-field. How so? If not for the AFL's injections, we'd have been in the red still, even after he became the reverend.

He was coach of the MFC for 3 seasons too many. He should have been sacked after 2003.

Completely agree. but for some reason Danners and his men reached god like status here on demonland.com. Even a wasted decade isn't enough proof that we were never going to be successful under their reign.

I wouldn't so much say Daniher is 'to blame', but obviously the situation we found ourselves in at the start of the 'Bailey Era' is the situation we were left with when Daniher finished.

Daniher attempted to win a premiership, and recruited some veterans with that in mind - Bizzell, Read, Holland and Pickett most obviously - possibly at an overly high price in some cases. He also held onto other veteran players which we my have been tempted to delist earlier if we'd been thinking more long term - Ward, Brown, Nicholson. The last few years before the changeover saw very limited turnover, only the minimum three or four picks each draft.

In the end, we've been left with an odd demographic with a clump of older players now retiring or about to retire, plus a big wave of younger players from last years (and this years, and next years) drafts. The older players have also not being performing at an elite level in many cases, which has hurt.

So, Daniher's objectives see us in the crapper now, but I can't have a problem with the man for putting everything into trying to win a premiership.

To blame Bailey after half a season is a little silly though. Makes more sense to blame Riley (the bastard cost us pick 17 last year and the extra pick at 1 this year, with his stupid beating of Carlton and the Dogs.)

Daniher was not a good judge of a real footballer, IMO.

How about you guys let Bailey build the team that he wants before you hang him.

He is already off to a great start, getting rid of the likes of Ward, Godfrey, Bizzell and Brown and replacing them in the twam with guys like Garland, Buckley, Wonemarri, Warnock etc.. and trading TJ for pick 14.

Bailey will build a very good list, that will actually contain some quality KPP's.

My god... his is the first time in a long time I've felt like Y_M and I are on the same page...

It's terrifying..

I just don't see how, after 6 consistantly inconsistent seasons, Danners was kept on after that shocking 2003 season. Even after the end to 2004. Had he been sacked/resigned when he should have, we wouldn't be in this position today. I 100% blame the list problems on Daniher.

How about you guys let Bailey build the team that he wants before you hang him.

He is already off to a great start, getting rid of the likes of Ward, Godfrey, Bizzell and Brown and replacing them in the twam with guys like Garland, Buckley, Wonemarri, Warnock etc.. and trading TJ for pick 14.

Bailey will build a very good list, that will actually contain some quality KPP's.

My god... his is the first time in a long time I've felt like Y_M and I are on the same page...

It's terrifying..

Yep terrifying indeed ........

But that being said he is absolutely spot on!!!