Older demon

Just read the article and it suggests Tim Smith Keilty JKH and Garlett unlikely to get new contract Guy Walker has shoulder problem and Maynard and Lewis are retiring. That is 7 of the list and 5 of the senior list with the rules saying we have to delist a minimum of 3. Anyone else of the list would be a trade

Forget the personalities and let us look at what we want the captain to do and what abilities should he have. Let us treat it as a job application. 1. In absence of runners, someone who can weigh up the game and organise the team. Footy smarts to put it bluntly and the respect of players so they will do what he demands. Think Hodge, Selwood, Cotchin and Hurn. In the event of a run or when the opposition is on top someone who can re-organise on field and is the extension of the coach 2. Someone who provides leadership on and off the field. The position is Club Captain not match day captain. Leads by example in games, at training and away from the club 3. Media savvy. No potting players in public, ability to front the cameras and take the heat and questions. Being articulate and able to speak in public is good 4. Ability to develop and grow into the role and commit to further training and development 5. Have some leadership experience Having said this I am happy for others to add to the job description and requirements for the job. There is no-one on the list who satisfies all those requirements but some who cauldron grow into it. I suspect the idea behind Viney and Jones is the hope between them they provide the above and create a succession plan. I think the Viney/Jones hybrid lacks footy noise and ability to lift and lead. If need be leave Viney there but add Max and develop him as he has most of the skills and the potential to grow in the job. Then groom others in the group for the role IMO Lever is a natural born leader but has dodgy knees, T Mac and Melksham come to mind Comments requested

Of course I will renew as I do every year with the MCC subscription. Now more than ever the club needs our support and not joining doesn't assist and I don't think it is a protest. The club is aware of supporter dissatisfaction and if you want to protest do say via membership otherwise your comment won't be read. Also don't take it out on the volunteer who may ring you next year when you haven't rejoined. Don't shoot the messenger.

I assume the weather has set in as it has closer to the city and play has become quite difficult. Any senior players present?

6- Melksham the only forward 5- Lewis. effort and solid 4- Lever. took marks and ran not an easy backline to defend in 3- Frost. please offer him a contract, has a go 2- Petracca. surprise ruck but took him to the contest and he competed 1- Gawn. The only leader in the team To the midfield who got smashed yet again. Collectively win the selfish award. Why because they are all trying to get a kick and not doing the team thing and looking for cheapies and stats to make them look good. I was horrified the number of times team mates spoiled each other going for the same ball. Coaches -10 for overseeing this garbage and leaving us with absolutely no visible style or brand as they like to call it

Well done Kade on your debut. A great kid who is small (174 cm) but quick. Noted at U18 for his forward defensive pressure so I can see why he is being tried even if others cannot. Early season at gate 3 handing out scarves we were swamped and the players who came to just to meet and greet actually hopped in and assisted. If my memory serves me well It was Kade, Billy, Oscar Baker and Jordon or Walker (memory failing). Kade was first to put his hand up and took up a role immediatly at the table with many a supporter being handed their scarve by this young man. Similarly Oscar Baker was assisting organising the queue with Stretch & Jordon was behind the counter unpacking. They stayed way past their scheduled time and impressed me greatly with their character and willingness to work. Kade looks so young but will now have payed at least 1 game of AFL more than I ever did.

I am so sad to hear this and my condolences to the family. Such a great person he will be missed. I met him on so many occasions at family days etc with his family and was happy to be one of the crowd but such a gentleman. My best story was at Luna Park where Frank and grand children where in the queue to get Jack Watts signature and no-one around including Jack knew who he was. I knew who he was, as he was my late mums favourite and suggested that maybe Bluey should be signing autographs as a premiership hero. Introduced him to Jack who didn't know who he was and but then started asking him questions about all those flags. He will forever be remembered in 1955 (I was 2 months old) for that short lived finals appearance of a few seconds when late in the Grand Final he sprinted onto the ground of the bench and collided with wingman Des Healy of Collingwood. Both ended up unconscious. Healy had won the Copeland that year and never played again at age 28 while Bluey went on to win 6 premierships. Another of that great era has passed.

I thought that we got smashed in the midfield with Sidebottom seemingly always on his own, Pendlebury never fumbling. We were down on both wings as well which is no surprise with baker and Dunkley learning the trade. Someone needs to tell Clarry to gain some composure, as he is always in a hurry and handbills before the recipient is ready. He should kick more instead of those errant handballs. They got so much run of half back and we got none. Such a low skilled game neither team should be happy.

6 Fritch 5 May 4 Trac 3 JKH 2 Harmes That is it in an awful game with terrible skills and our usual butchering and turning over off the ball.

Mac as backup ruckman .....really. I hope Drysdale is correct and there are late changes ie Hore and Stretch. Oscar can never say he wasn't given opportunities

In May, Hore and Stretch Out Oscar, Preuss & Wagner or Dunkley Move Salem into the centre and leave him there to develop as a mid or stick Trac in the middle and let him develop into the midfielder we hoped to get with pick 2. Hunt to a wing and JKH back to where he started as a forward pocket rover/pressure forward Jones May Lever Hibberd Frost Hore Baker Salem Hunt Trac Petty Melksham JKH Oliver Fritta Gawn Brayshaw Viney Stretch Harmes Dunkley Lewis 1 ruckman and someone else nominated to play the Grigg role as Richmond did so successfully. If not stick with Preuss and omit Dunkley.

Suggested yesterday that Stevens goes to Geelong, Kelly goes to Free and Hill goes to the Saints with swaps of late draft picks. No good for us but seems a good fit with 3 players who want to play elsewhere. If we get pick 2 please take Noah Anderson and do not trade it away for anybody

I won't repeat what other posters have listed as there are some obvious ideas. History is against us because in the last 9 years only Richmond rebounded after 1 year. Incidentally they won a flag on the rebound. Most teams have taken a couple of years to rebound and often they don't. Missing this year is a Garlett type forward who kicks goals. Look at Brisbane with Cameron, W.C. with Ryan, Rioli, Cripps and Cameron, Hawthorn always had Rioli and Bruest. Richmond won a flag with a small forward line in which everybody contributed goals. A huge gap in our forward line setup that needs to be addressed Midfielders who kick goals. Gus, Viney, Clarry and Harmes don't kick goals. The top teams have mids who love to stream down the ground and kicks goals our guys would rather handball, usually to someone in a worse position,

I listened to Richo being interviewed and he has no desire to be a senior coach again. He sees himself as a development coach and that is his area of strength. As luck would have it we have a vacancy for a development coach with McCartney's departure. Rich is much more of a people person than the hard edge of Macca. Already the club has recruited in a lot of youth with Sparrow, Jordan, Bedford, Dunkley and Chandler. If we don't trade of our high draft picks we will have 3 maybe 4 more kids come in.Fertile ground for a development coach to manufacture the next tier of players under Viney, Gus, Clarry and Harmes

Martin Flanagan is a superb writer and demon tragic. I wold never mss his regular articles in the Age. Met him at Robbie Flowers service and thanked him for the brilliant story he wrote about Tulip. His writing reflects his connection with footy especially at local levels and grass roots footy all of which came through in this interview. Rob Murphy was a perfect foil for him. He finished off when they asked about the culture atMFC and he started by stating that they are the world longest established club at senior level. He likened them to a tragedy & a comedy. He thought that Barassi moving to Carlton, modernised both them and the modern game, turning it into the running game we know now. Sadly MFC has been slow to adapt. He then said the best thing MFC could do now moving forward was make Max captain and detailed why. Well worth listening to. I agree! Note Martin said Max should be club captain and that captaining the club is different to just captaining the team on match day. It is his off field presence and personality as well as his fierce desire to perform on field and ability to lift players around him. He certainly has the current co-captains covered with his media savvy and appeal to club supporters IMO

Agree we miss the speed of the Garlett of old but his prime has past and Vanders I suspect may never play again. There is an urgent need to recruit a Garlett type of small goal kicking forward who tackles.

I posted elsewhere in a thread a table of team finishes in the 8 since 2010. Only 1 top 4 team team has rebounded after missing the finals the next year. The fall is easy but there is a reason we are 15th and that is reflected in the quality or lack there off in the team. I do not have a high expectation of next year unless we address some serious deficiencies in the game plan, personnel and the way we structure up ie our goal to goal line is thin and no realistic back up.

Agree with everything David said. The marketing campaign starting this week with the "Big 3" may be a disaster as why would anyone come and watch us play the way we did Saturday night. 3 game membership who would bother. I have asked the club not to send me their Monday morning email with Goodwin's message. The problem has been there all year and nothing the club has done has fixed it. This is a massive fail both at player level and coaching level. They deserved King's boot in my opinion.

Well demonland will go into meltdown after that performance. It was actually 85 points from turn overs 13 goals 7 behinds from turn overs. Can you actually coach a team to handle the pill that badly. With so many professional footballers unable to kick or hand ball to maintain possession it augurs badly for next year simply because there are so many of them we cannot clear them all out at the same time. I also think it is time Goodwin ceased sending us the post match video. It is inane, densely and completely insincere because there is no improvement. I am embarrassed by this club.

A lot has been written about this year being an aberration and there was a variety of opinion on our status on radio yesterday. I decided to look back over the last 9 years at ladder position and who fallaway and how long did it take to rebound. The stats suggest the next few years will not be what we hope for In the period 2010 to 2018 the only teams that didn't appear in finals were Brisbane & Gold Coast with the other 16 teams all making an appearance with MFC making it just with one. From 2010 to 16 teams that made the top 4 and fell away and the time to rebound were Bulldogs 2010 missed finals next 4 years. West Coast 2011 missed next 3 years. Adelaide 2012 missed next 2 years. 2014 Geel missed 1 year. 2015 Freo missed the next 3. Lesson to learn, bad years are rarely a 1 year aberration which doesn't augur well for MFC in 2020 Overall the stats for the 16 teams is as follows. Listed are finals appearances over 9 years and largest gap in between finals appearance. So, Collingwood have 5 finals appearance and a gap of 4 years between finals. Geelong have 8 and missed 1 year. Saints have 2 appearances and 7 years out. Bulldogs have 3 finals appearances and a 4 year maximum gap. Syd have 9 out of 9. Freo have 5 finals appearances and a 3 year gap that is growing. Hawks 8 and missed once. Carlton what a surprise 3 finals appearances but 5 years out and growing. West Coast 6 finals appearances and a 2 year gap out of the 8. Essendon 3 times in the 8 but never out for more than 2 years. North 4 top 8 finishes with a 4 year gap missing the 8. Richmond 5 top 8 finishes and at worst out for 3 years. Adelaide 4 top 8 and out of the 8 for 2 years. Port Adelaide 3 top 8 finishes and out for 3 years. GWS took 6 years to make their first final but have made the top 8 the last 3 years. The moral is don't expect to return to finals next year because it is rare. The fall is usually for a couple of years. I don't think our list is as good as we think and we need much more depth so I hope we use the high draft picks wisely. Given the delistings last year and the influx of Sparrow, Jordan, Bedford, Nietschke, Here, Chandler, Lockhart and Dunkley means there is a lot of development needed. I have lowered my expectation for next year as history says only Hawthorn and Geelong have slipped for a year. With the exception of the dogs in 2016 the flag always comes from the top 4. The top 4 since 2010 has been limited to 9 teams Hawks have 7, Cats 6, Swans 5, Pies 4, Freo & Eagles 3, Crows & GWS 2 with Saints & Dogs 1 each. Port Adelaide is the team stats that most interest as a model for MFC to avoid. In 2014 they came with seconds of knocking off eventual premiers Hawthorn since then they missed finals for 2 years got 5th in 2017 and haven't made finals since.

My sentiments as well. Jessie may be out west but he just cannot get the cards to fall his way. A recurrence of a navicular on top of everything else he has endured hardly seems fair. We have had our fair share of this foot injury and the successful return rate isn't good. I wish Jesse all the best post surgery and in his recovery

At the start of the year we were touted as having the best midfield in the competition. This certainly hasn't been the case on the evidence shown in 17 rounds of football. The KPI I don't like is clearances and inside 50's which suggest our mids are getting plenty of the ball and there is a disconnect with the forward line. I have looked at the midfield depth of other clubs and their marquee players and come to the conclusion that our midfield is inexperienced, shallow in depth and is lacking skill and kicking efficiency. I hope that this draft we look to bring some class and speed into the mix. To prove my point I am comparing Max, Clarry, Gus, Harmes & Viney with other teams. Max and Viney are experienced but Clarry, Gus and Harmes are still learning the caper. Of this group I consider only Harmes able to hit targets on a regular basis. It is fair to also include the others who may run through the midfield ie wings and flankers, to see how we match up. At the top we have WestCoast with 2 rucks feeding Shuey, Yeo, Sheed, Gaff & Masten with Ryan and Rioli as rovers. The Pies carry 2 rucks feeding Pendlebury, Adams, Crisp, Sidebottom, Treloar, Phillips and Wells. Both have players who hit targets up forward and pace. Yesterday English was removed from the ruck and they let Bontempelli, Dunkley, MacCrae and Hunter run wild and still have Libba and Wallis to return. Geelong try 2 rucks but have Danger, Kelly Selwood, Duncan, Guthrie, Ablett, and this year have added Myers, Dalhaus and Clarke to the mix. Our support group is Fritch (efficiency 50%) Hunt (quick but awful kick) Trac (who should be in the midfield but gets lost sometimes on the half forward flank) Salem (needed down back) Melksham (injured and sadly missed) Vandenburg (perpetually injured). Special cases are Lewis (Last season) and Jones (better kick on either foot than Clarrie & Gus but rarely in the middle). In comparison our mids is still young compared to those I have mentioned with Jack the reader being a bull rather than the cream. I don't despair that this year we have gone backwards and maybe next year won't be as good as we expect because I believe we need to develop a lot more before we can consistently play finals and challenge. We need goal kicking mids, centreline and half forward players. We need more class, speed and midfield depth in my opinion. A good old fashioned rover would be a godsend i.e the Papley, Gresham, Rioli, Betts, Tipungwuti type. What do you think?

I wonder if Petty will have some time up forward he is good overhead and may defend the area better than some of our forwards. Looks like max and Brayden will rest at full forward.

As I have no cartilage in either knee after 5 menisectomies I can understand the cautious approach. Minor tears can heal but take 6 weeks and more major tears can be stitched and take longer to heal. Not sure about current orthopaedic practices but surgeons appear to be very conservative about snipping out cartilage. cartilage doesn’t grow back and arthritis is more likely to develop in the knee later in life.

6 Oliver 5 TMac (he did take the 4th quarter off) 4 Preuss 3 Harmes 2 salem 1 Jones apologies to Frost and May