Lucifers Hero

7 hours ago, biggestred said:

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/new-essendon-chairman-lindsay-tanner-wants-former-coach-james-hird-back-in-the-fold-20151214-gln0ay.html

Jobe to keep Brownlow if guilty.

How to remove all credibility before youve started...

Rohan Connolly is an EFC/Hird fan-boy apologist.  Not at the same nauseating levels as Robbo but one nonetheless.  If Caro had been in that Fairfax interview I wonder what her version would read like...same 'facts', different narrative I would think.

Jobe retaining his brownlow is the same wishful thinking they have been deluded by all along: players did nothing wrong so minimal if any punishment is their mantra.  "The whole drama was the club's fault, not that of any individual player," Tanner says.  That is a nice side-step of the WADA rules of players being responsible for what they 'take' which is what this whole CAS case is about!  Thankfully, the results are out of his control!

As for Hird going back, that has to be a Santa type appetiser to keep the fans on-side and keep them buying memberships. 

All thru this CAS thing I've thought the players would be found guilty but get diluted penalties.  But, I really hope they get the book thrown at them!!

Age story about Captaincy and Leadership Group: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/melbourne-announce-nathan-jones-as-captain-again-for-2016-20151210-gll01t.html

Roos said that it had "been a pleasure to watch" Jones' evolution into a selfless player...'.

'...Jones nominated defender Tom McDonald and midfielder Jack Viney as two players who could be in line for ascension to the leadership group next season. Lynden Dunn, Daniel Cross, Heritier Lumumba, Chris Dawes and Grimes were the others in the group this year'.

With Cross gone, I would imagine the Club would not want too much change in the LG so you would think Jones, Dunn and Lumumba will continue.  Given what Roos said above about on-field performance I suspect that Grimes and Dawes will not get another leadership gig. 

Tom Mc deserves a spot as does Viney.  That makes 5.  The club may stop with that rather than go to 6.  Other 'new players' be it Vand, Hogan or Brayshaw, I feel need another year or two playing AFL before the additional responsibility - not because they couldn't handle it but simply to give them another year or two to settle in and enjoy themselves. 
 

The AFL can act on the basis of 'bringing the game into disrepute' or whatever they call stepping outside the AFL code of behaviour.

If there is a criminal act involved it rightly should be handled by police. 

It should not prevent the AFL from standing up for its (hiccup) principles.

20 minutes ago, Ingeniokinetikey said:

12 months and fine		6 (3%)
All of the Pre Season		85 (42.9%)
6 weeks of the season		61 (30.8%)
12 weeks of the season		14 (7.1%)
AFL sanction		23 (11.6%)
Sacked indefinite		9 (4.5%)

 

Current polling on Punt Road End (with a few complaints of why there is not a 'nothing' or 'fine' button). Pretty impressed that at ~45% favour him missing some season matches, they are hurting. Also I don't know what AFL sanction means, I presume it's some sort of PR exercise.

 

To support what you have presented - Fox footy website survey also strong on suspensions:

An update on the women's league: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/clubs-fight-for-foundation-status-as-afl-paves-way-for-womens-league-20151209-gljoja.html

Encouraging comments from Caro:  '...with the Bulldogs and Melbourne having paved the way with staged women's drafts and high-profile games featured on free-to-air television, they would seem certain to win foundation status.'

Assuming that to be the case the other 4 Vic spots will be fought out by: Carlton, Essendon, Richmond, Geelong, St Kilda and Collingwood.  The Vic teams yet to put up their hand are Nth and Hawks.

3 hours ago, Dees2014 said:

All I can say there are about a dozen key turning points in this saga all of which were speculated about on here and about which I have written extensively.  Check the record for yourself if you don't believe me. I won't bore you all be listing them, but I am happy to stand on my record.

I think you are dodging binman's question.  While you may written extensively on many points, binman was asking about how often the predictions from your sources actually eventuated or were different to predictions made by others on DL.  I have also followed your writings closely and while I can think of a few of those predictions that didn't eventuate I can't think of any that did. 

35 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

jane i'm surprised the police don't seem to be proactive in this case without waiting for a complaint

after all they are running a campaign against violence towards women and making a lot of public statements. now when they have an opportunity to change words to deeds they have gone all lead-footed

maybe i misjudge them and they are in fact doing something behind the scenes that will be soon revealed, but i'm not holding my breath

That description of being lead-footed on this while, running a campaign is equally apt of the AFL.  Their silence (on condemnation of the act) is deafening.

Given what Caro wrote about the woman wanting to stay silent because of Martin's 'connections' and she 'feared for her safety', I suspect there are many people in all organisations relevant to this (incl law enforcement) who are also scared of his 'connections'. 

Lots of tip-toeing around egg shells on this one.  

I just came across this article: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/dean-bailey-only-accepted-tanking-ban-after-threats-from-gillon-mclachlan-book-alleges/story-fnp04d70-1227636945677?from=herald+sun_rss

Really staggered to read:  'DEAN Bailey only accepted his 2013 tanking penalty after AFL official Gillon McLachlan threatened him with a life ban from football.'

And Dean's response is to be admired:  '“Hey, Gill, I’m not a cheat. I know that for sure and I won’t pretend that just for you to save face. So nah, we’re not going to accept. Sharpen your pencil and come back to us, pal.” 

Dean sticking up for himself and his principles would have meant a life ban and him not being able to provide for his family.  So, he took the rap.

The article makes some startling revelations about Gil's maneuverings and shenanigans but this isn't the place to discuss them.  Suffice to say Gil can be a nasty piece of work.

51 minutes ago, Deestar9 said:

Have it on very good authority that he is part owner of the bar/restaurant which might contribute to this biased comment.  No matter how 'hot' her running mouth was ......his behaviour on all levels was totally unacceptable regardless of gender.  Also being in the media I seriously doubt she would deliberately inflame the situation......she could have just merely videoed it on her phone & sent it round media outlets if she wanted to cause trouble.  

That is a very good point.  Caro's says in this article: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/victims-account-will-shape-richmond-tigers-star-dustin-martins-punishment-20151208-glipay.html the woman did not want to go public because of Martin's 'connections' and she 'feared for her safety'. 

The whole situation is more complicated than we think.

26 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

Not really sure LH.  As I am not sure if the Hun has an "exclusive" on the excerpts of the book.  I am not a subscriber to the Hun,  so I can't read the article as it is a secured link.  But it does surprise me that the rest of the mainstream media have not been right on to this.  DB was gracious when he was sacked by the MFC.  I have just watched his last press conference after the MFC sacking on youtube and I could not get over how free of anger he seemed to be.  Most of us mere mortals would have been frothing at the mouth had it happened to us.

 

All I am saying is DB was scapegoated and surely someone else was culpable, yet whoever they are??? seem to get away with it with their reputations relatively intact.  I guess all I am doing is hoping that those who perhaps deserve it, get their comeuppance on the karma bus.

Thanks iva.  And totally agree he was a scapegoat.  The 'culprits' got some comeuppance as part of the clean out of the club. 

I remember the press conf very clearly.  It was left up to a very very sick Jimmy to make the announcement.  It was distressing to see him struggle like that...I cried all the way through it.

What was equally distressing was that Dean was left to front the media on his own, in civvies, no sponsor backboards, no support etc.  He deserved so much better.  He deserved respect. To abandon him at the press conf like that was one of the clubs shameful moments.

I hope the book is a great success in and out of the footy world.

3 minutes ago, McQueen said:

"RICHMOND has belatedly taken a much stronger public stance after star Dustin Martin allegedly threatened a woman in a drunken incident.

Tigers chief executive Brendon Gale said in a statement that the Saturday night incident was very serious and it demands a thorough investigation"

 

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-12-08/tigers-incredibly-disappointed-in-martins-actions

 

About bloody time.

Brendon Gale seems a good bloke and I admire what he has achieved at the Tigers.  But he still does not get it!  He says:  "I want to be clear that any threat of physical violence against a woman - or any member of the public for that matter - is completely unacceptable..." 

He should have said: Any threat of violence against anyone, anywhere is completely unacceptable.  Anything less looks like tokenism and spin.  Not good enough, I'm afraid.  In this case KB has got it spot on.

3 hours ago, iv'a worn smith said:

Of course I am not saying DB's fate would have been any different had he been treated differently by the minions of the AFL, but certainly, he was made a scapegoat and deserved some more dignity.  The ole karma bus has a habit of taking the odd detour to collect a few that were not expecting it.  Perhaps, it might be just worth keeping an eye on things over the next few months or so.

...in which direction is that good ole karma bus heading?  PM me if you prefer.

This article is about Melksham but it gives a good insight into Goodwin as a coach from the player's view: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2015-12-08/melksham-ready-to-make-mark-at-melbourne

'In describing Goodwin, Melksham said the first word that came to mind about the Adelaide great was that he was “driven”...“Everything he does, he commits 100 per cent … he believes in what he’s doing and he’s come from a successful background. He’s played in a few flags at Adelaide and he’s been there and done it, so you trust what he’s saying,” he said...“The club’s in very good hands and speaking with the players over the last few weeks, they’re really excited to have him on board with Roosy (Paul Roos). He’s brought a little bit of change to the club as well and I think this transition phase in the next year will be really smooth.”

These echo comments related in the op.  The underlined parts are terrific qualities in a coach to get his team on board and go on the journey with him.  

I don't think the stories about Goodwin are 'feel goods' to appease supporters in the off season.  Of course only on-field performance will be the telling.  Like Melksham says 'we are in good hands' and given where we have been that is quite something.  

This isn't a climate change issue but didn't want to open a new thread.

Mt Etna erupted last week and here is a slide show of pics taken at different times and locations. http://palermo.repubblica.it/cronaca/2015/12/07/foto/spettacolo_etna_ecco_le_foto_piu_belle_dell_ultima_eruzione_sul_web-128953766/1/#26

The text is in Italian but it doesn't detract from the spectacular scenery!

3 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Really?  I feel like I've heard that many times over the past decade.

The difference for me is we no longer promote them to supporters as boy messiahs who will become the next saviour of the club.  Thereby, building their skills, confidence and psyche gradually at their individual tempos.  ie some real development.

In the past it seemed to me we (unwittingly) just thru them to the wolves.

An article on the club website about Petracca's training and 2016.

A very measured appoach: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2015-12-06/petracca-ready-to-go-in-2016

Mahoney says: '"We've seen over the last few years that we don't have any expectations set on our young players, but having said that we don't have any limits put on them either," Mahoney said. What a change a few years makes on our approach to development! 

Almost as an afterthought he adds that we are having 'on-going' discussions with Jesse to extend beyond 2017.  No news is good news, I guess.  I feel quite relaxed about just enjoying Jesse play and wait till he is ready.

In my study days we applied 'deductive reasoning' (a legitimate tool of logic when facts are not available) to draw a conclusion.  In those days when discussing risk we also talked 'probability'.  Therefore my logic on Goodwin's position is:

- Bomber (Senior Ass Coach) and Dr Reid did not know of the 'good stuff' and injection regime until long after the program started.  Given that Goodwin was junior to them there is a high probability he did not know.

- that he took a substance that was legal does not implicate him in any legal or illegal substance regime.

- he was interviewed by ASADA and they did not find cause to issue sanction notices (nor did the AFL fine him)

- the WADA rules at the time were not broad enough to implicate (some) support staff. 

Therefore, my reasoned conclusion on risk: As a relative 'junior' at EFC there is a very low probability that Goodwin will receive any suspension.    

To the MFC decision:  To state the obvious: Everything has a risk!  But, smart operators make rational decisions.  ie 1) identify a risk 2) evaluate whether the risk has a low or high probability of occurrence and  3) take out 'insurance' via contingency plans and/or contract clauses to mitigate the risk. ie exactly what we do in our everyday lives!! 

MFC is run by smart people.  Yes, it is true!!  I have absolutely no doubt the club did those 3 things. They made a rational decision in hiring Goodwin.  We have smart operators running our club and to pot them is just plain silly...

20 minutes ago, Macca said:

They may have changed or tightened the rules but the same basic principles could be applied regardless of when the rules were breached. 

WADA went after that Italian doctor involved in the cycling doping scandal long after he first transgressed. Dank & Hird can still be pursued you'd reckon and if both those 2 can be pursued then why not others? 

There's no cut off point otherwise Armstrong would never have got done.

Not challenging those thoughts 'Macca' just putting some context around my earlier post on support staff:  here is the ASADA document referencing WADA changes at 01/01/15 https://www.asada.gov.au/rules-and-violations/anti-doping-rule-violations

'Complicity' was broadened in its application to support staff to include more people and activties.  My recollection is it was not broad enough pre 01/01/15 to catch EFC staff.  But could easily be wrong. 

56 minutes ago, Macca said:

Couldn't those in charge at Essendon be pursued by WADA after the CAS case is over and done with? ... and might one of those in charge include Goodwin?

WADA Publishes List Of Banned Coaches And Support Staff For Doping Violations

Surely at least Hird, Dank, Charters, Alavi & Robinson would be charged at a later date if the players are found guilty ... even if the players are found not guilty then WADA should still go after the perpetrators (if WADA are confident that they can place the PED's at the EFC)

 

From the article it is difficult to tell when the offencse occurred.  It refers to a 'new rule'.  My recollection is that WADA changed the rules as at 01/01/15 to:

- increase player suspension maximums from 2 yrs to 4 for offences after 01/01/15...hence why EFC players face a max 2 years

- support staff could be banned, or at least the circumstances under which they are banned was broadened (again I think it was for sins after 01/01/15) but not entirely sure of how it works for support staff.   

Even if Goodwin is suspended (which I doubt) we have McCartney at the ready.

1 hour ago, It's Time said:

That's around 15% up on last year. If that keeps up we'll crack 40,000. It would be around 5,000 more than last year. Does anyone have any idea what that is worth in dollars to the Club? More money for the FD and more debt knocked off. Go PJ. LEGEND. Love how innovative and on the front foot they are this year with branding and memberships. Best I've ever seen from the Club. 

I make the extra revenue to be $900k to $1m!

Increased revenue will help pay for the much needed increase in football department spend, which has been Jackson's # 1 spending priority (rightly so).  He recognises that better player facilities, development and welfare support are a critical part of keeping and attracting good players...little steps but we are getting there...the building blocks are almost all in place.

...as always win a few more games (especially early in the season) and things get a lot better a lot faster.

I like how you 'adopted' the new club logo!

Looks terrific!

52 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Keep in mind....most of the rest of media DON'T  want to print the truth...why would they go looking  for it...fanboy-phobia

All the more reason to give Caro credit for putting it out there. 

She would definitely have told Gil the story was going to print.  'No surprises' is rule # 1.

He may or may not have asked her to reconsider.    Either way she published!  

6 hours ago, Gorgoroth said:

A tweet I just saw from Brooklyn who works for the club.

 

"24,402 Melbourne Members already on board for season 2016! Exciting times for our Club and members! Go Dees! @melbournefc #myheartbeatstrue"

The closest comparison I can find to last year is 21,118 as at Dec 1, 2014.

24,402 so far, bodes well!

WOW, WOW!!  It seems the players 'forgot' to mention 'Thymosin': " Essendon players have struggled to explain why they omitted to mention they had been injected with substances including Thymosin when they were questioned by drug testers during the 2012 season....Several of the seven past and present Bombers players summoned last month to appear before the Court of Arbitration for Sport were cross-examined as to why — if they believed they were taking legitimate drugs — they neglected to mention those drugs and the injections"  http://www.theage.com.au/afl/cas-concern-over-why-bombers-omitted-to-mention-thymosin-injections-20151204-glfnbm.html 

"The three-man panel of independent arbitrators indicated they found the omissions troubling."

Those 'omissions' certainly aren't 'co-operation' so can't help their chances of reduced penalties, if found guilty.  It also pours cold water on their claim that they were 'duped'!! 

Caroline also writes:  "Uncertainty and in some cases blatant pessimism followed the hearing with several player managers confirming the 34 Essendon players charged would certainly mount legal action against the club and potentially the AFL if found guilty and suspended".

Not looking good for the players.  Hoisted by their own petard, I would say!
 

44 minutes ago, outsider said:

Height- 175-177cm

Weight- 74-76kg 

Age- 20 

Traits- Speed, agility, natural crumber

Disadvantages- Kicking lets him down at times, confidence  

Yarran Jaffer-Williams is a young indigenous prospect looking to spark his AFL aspirations back to life.

 

That is a great insight into a young man's journey so far.  Thank you.  He has shown real determination and desire. 

Will look forward to watching him play at Casey.  Really, hope he gets his dream to play AFL...with the Dees of course!