Lucifers Hero

Not an apologist for Dr Reid but he is mainly a 'game day' doctor. 

He may or may not personally attend all training sessions and he may or may not go to his private consulting or at the club.  There is a fair chance all the injections etc happened when Reid wasn't on the premises. 

That at least one player (who had been his private patient since 1999 ie someone who should have known better) withheld info Dr Reid suggests the good doctor was sidelined, bigtime!

Its interesting that AFLPA and player lawyers broke the news to the players, not Essendon.  It wasn't until EFC/Hird lost the first Fed Court case that players decided to run their own race, with AFLPA. 

It seems they badly misunderstood the ASADA/WADA appeal process.  It seems only EFC/AFL/AFLPA were surprised when WADA appealed.

They also seriously underestimated Richard Young and failed to research how he wins his cases.

They seemed to not understand how to mount a defense at CAS:  they allowed WADA to take a 'strands in a 'strands in a cable approach'.  They clearly didn't understand what that meant and thought the 'link in the chain approach' used at the AFL Tribunal would win the day (see 110 and 111 of CAS judgement).  Eventually they realised their blunder and tried to get the WADA approach thrown out but it was too late. 

Clearly the AFLPA were way out of their depth!!  Why did AFLPA not get a crack international lawyer who understands WADA, CAS, Richard Young, 'strands in a cable vs links in a chain' etc, etc?   It was the biggest mistake of the many mistakes by AFLPA.   

Yesterday, was a tad late for 'crocodile tears' from Marsh...really just 'crying over spilt milk'.  He looked like a poor loser refusing to accept the umpires decision.

25 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

My understanding of the Code is that once banned you are NOT entitled to payments as a player. None. That is PART of the punishment.

Happy to be corrected.

This is EFC bb!  You know those guys that think themselves above the law and will bend the rules to suit themselves!. 

Any idea where to find the Code that talks to player payments while suspended?

21 minutes ago, biggestred said:

Ess should pay his contract for this year

19 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Nobody will be paying him this year.

Someone should pay him...Essendon are paying 'their' players - whether this is just those still on their list or not I don't know...I suspect it is.

It would be wrong if all 34 players are not treated the same.  The AFL said today any payments to players by Ess would be within their TPP. 

However, if we are 'morally' obliged by the AFL to pay Melksham it should NOT be in our TPP in my opinion.  From a cash flow and profit perspective I think there is a strong case for the non-ess affected clubs to request the AFL to pay the salary.  Port, Bulldogs, StK and us are the poorest clubs in the league and can least afford to throw away a few hundred thousands of dollars.

Edit: "...Bombers chief executive Xavier Campbell confirmed the banned players would be paid during their suspensions.  "They will be paid by the club. We'll have to work within the confines of the WADA code and we'll work closely with the AFL and we've had discussions to that effect," Campbell said.  http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-01-12/manifestly-unfair-bombers-hit-at-cas-verdict?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=RSS+feed%3A+AFL+Latest+News

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/essendon-verdict-players-not-at-fault-says-bill-shorten-20160112-gm42j8.html

It is disgraceful that the Leader of the Opposition (our alternative Prime Minister) is effectively undermining CAS's decision, without any consideration for the clean sportspeople that represent our country. 

He clearly hasn't read the judgement so appears a bit of an uninformed dill!

3 minutes ago, rjay said:

Sorry 'La Dee', it's not Jobes decision. He can't go a prove innocence, he's been found guilty.

My guess is they are waiting for him to hand it back, I think it's a pity because he does seem a really good bloke.

He will fall on his sword so they won't have to make the tough decision, another win to "Dill the Likeable" would be my bet.

I had the same reaction 'rjay'.  Whatever his mistakes in 2012 Jobe has been honest, courageous and dignified over the last 3 years.  He would not want the stigma of this to forever cloud his brownlow victory.  The sad thing is he may well have won it without the supplements.  We will never know.

I also expect him to hand it back before the AFL meets.

This article lists the losers (nearly everyone) and the winners (only WADA.  http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-cas-verdict-no-winners--or-are-there-20160112-gm3xor.html

It misses the biggest winner of all:  All athletes that represent Australia!

Without the CAS verdict our country, all our sports and our athletes will have been tainted with the Essendon cheating brush. Imagine the damage that would have been done to our international sporting reputation.  Imagine the sledging our athletes would have to endure.

The AFL may want to protect the integrity of their two-bit sport (with all sorts of manipulations and spin)

But, today I am very happy that the integrity of all Australian athletes has been protected and when they represent us they can hold their heads high and be proud that cheats will be found out and punished. 

The AFL sanctioned EFC and Hird for 'poor governance'.  Since then Worksafe found them guilty of an unsafe workplace and CAS found the players guilty of drug cheating.  Surely, the AFL has to go back and raise new sanctions against EFC based on this new evidence.

The AFL decision on this, Watson's brownlow and removing EFC from the ANZAC day game, will be telling.

Can't help but think the AFL they will stoop to new lows in spin, whitewash and camouflage to protect EFC and the AFl 'brand'. 

4 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Now did I hear correctly that Watson ban may be longer as he played the international rules game? Ie same length of suspension but as he played a game later than the rest he starts back later?

Yes, Watson and Fletcher received an extra 8 days.

It is another example of CAS throwing the book (and everything else at its disposable) at the players with not an ounce of latitude given in the severity of the sanctions. 

7 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

AFL must ensure they don't get #1 draft pick

AFL must rejig the schedule to get them off primetime - Friday games against Port in Adelaide and the Hawks? Thursday night against WCE in Perth and Dreamtime Saturday night against the Tiges. ANZAC Day against the Pies? These will be absolute disasters.

Surely, the have to lose the ANZAC day game.

A club who has been found to cheats (yes let's call if for what is), who withheld information to drug testing authorities, who abused their players health, who fought tooth and nail in the courts to avoid exposure cannot be allowed to ever again be linked to ANZAC day. 

EFC's behaviour is the antithesis of everything ANZAC day stands for. 

Disgraceful, if the AFL do not have courage to strip them of it.

Furthermore, CAS says players should pay 75% of costs (I assume that will be EFC) and the AFL 25% so CAS found a way to have the AFL implicated as well.  CAS just keeps on giving...

I will stop quoting from the CAS report suffice to say it is pretty clear they slammed shut every possible avenue for EFC, players, AFL AFLPA etc to create any sort of spin in the media.  It is all very, very bad.

Players should sue their lawyers!  Not only have they received terrible advice from the start, they did not object to WADA 'strands in a cable' approach at the beginning of the hearing.  After they heard that approach they tried to get it thrown out.  Too late, said CAS.  See s 110, 111 and 112 http://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Arbitral_Award_WADA_ESSENDON.pdf

S 120 lays out the 'strands in a cable' approach taken by WADA...no wonder player lawyers suddenly wanted to rescind their agreement to allow WADA to use that approach.

CAS quite clearly shows how it connected the dots.  BTW, CAS exonerate Dr Reid.

You have to wonder if at any stage the player lawyers actually looked to how WADA or CAS operate.  Incompetence, ignorance, hubris - who knows but the players are entitled to ask them a few  questions.

And, all the people giving interviews in the media should stop and read the report as they are clearly talking drivel!!

3 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Report, all 48 pages of it are here:

 

http://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Arbitral_Award_WADA_ESSENDON.pdf

Significantly, that report says 'urine samples' in 2012 confirmed players were injected with TB4'.  It also says players did not get 'no significant fault' discount because they signed consent forms!!

To repeat what I noted in an earlier post - there is no room at all now, for EFC to try and argue 'but the players did nothing wrong' or the equally banal 'they were duped'. 

CAS has slammed the door shut on anyone else in the world trying a similar program.  A very good thing for clean sport.

"The players did not qualify for cooperation, either, which can reduce sentences by a further six months"

Looks like CAS bought none of the hype: no allowance for cooperation, no allowance for 'no or reduced fault'. 

A very, very strong condemnation of the players.  Effectively saying they were fully complicit.  No watering down, no opportunity for
EFC to draw any sort of 'but the players are innocent' hype.   

Just now, beelzebub said:

Surprised he's compus mentus !!

He won't be for long bb...big drinking session coming up for Robbo, I suspect!

Looks like a 2 year suspension, backdated to the SCN's in November 2014.

Justice has been done.  That is all the sporting world ever asked for.

GUILTY!! Its official.  To miss the season!!

I read that twit (timed @ 6.40 am), bb and thought EFC know the result and is preparing their members for a guilty verdict and nasty suspensions. They would be fine tuning their press release atmo.

The longer the delay in announcement the more likely:  'guilty'.

Conclusion:  they are GAWN!

For the record:

Verdict: guilty

Sanction: 2 years, backdated to SCN ie Oct 2014.  Further backdating for delays (Fed Court) out of player control ie back to first round of SCN's in June 2014.  Therefore, suspension period expires June 2016 earlier if CAS find other mitigating circumstances.  Players miss 10 to 12 games.

CAS remove Watson's brownlow.

CAS take no action against coaches, management or other support staff.

All are in the starting blocks ready to take civil legal action on behalf of the players:  http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-supplements-saga-civil-action-by-essendon-34-likely-says-player-agent-20160111-gm3amf.html

It reads as if the civil action will be taken regardless of the CAS outcome - no surprise.  Civil action has been obvious since Ziggy put out his 'pharmacological experiment' report in mid 2013.

dc the article says the verdict will be known early tomorrow morning.

24 minutes ago, old dee said:

About 30 minutes before they release the Dusty findings is my estimate dc.

od, the Dusty findings were released 2 days before Christmas when, of course no would notice.  Outcome: Police dropped the case.  No criminal offence had occurred.  Therefore AFL and RFC decided no reason to take action.  That a crime is not required to bring 'the game into disrepute' was conveniently forgotten.  Players have lost games for much less.  http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/dustin-martin-chopstick-investigation-dropped-20151222-gltn9k.html

BTW, the same day the AFLPA released their findings on Treloar's Manager (Bulcher??) and the surgery he 'requested' and 'paid for.  They found no case to answer.  Again 'timely' release ensured it was swept under the carpet.  http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/manager-peter-blucher-cleared-in-adam-treloar-surgery-investigation-20151222-glt43l.html

The integrity of the AFL Integrity unit and the AFPLA dropped a few notches at Christmas.

12 hours ago, Good Times Grimes said:

I believe that we're allowed to promote one rookie prior to round one regardless of injury.

I guess that refers to the 'nominated' rookie rule which is connected to the movement of players to the veterans list.

Not sure but I think this has been changed and now a rookie promotion is for a LTIL or after the bye. 

Would be good to have some clarity if anyone knows.

1 hour ago, P-man said:

Interesting comments on Viv:

“Viv probably played his best footy towards the end of last season. He gave himself a chance, but we needed numbers on the list for the draft, so it meant he dropped back to the rookie list. He’s training well and he needs to get fitter – he knows that – but he’s working hard at that area of the game. He has shown he can play AFL football, but it’s just a matter of him pushing hard now and doing everything he possibly can to get in the round one side.” – Paul Roos

On face value, Roosy has more faith in him than might be expected.

I found the round one side comment by Roos surprising.  He may have forgotten that Mitchie is a Rookie.  But that is unlike Roos especially as it could give false hope to Mitchie.  

So I wonder who he plans to 'drop' from the seniors side or put on the LTIL.  Current potential candidates: Melksham, Trengove, Frost, Petracca

Yes, the Richmond win was especially emotional for him.  And who can forget his elation when he jumped into Neeld's arms after we snatched a win from EFC a year or two ago (he played FF that day and kicked a few). 

He is by all accounts a quiet man but he wears his heart on his sleeve. 

Always a fan of his but my love for him went up after the Grand Final and he was asked what it was like to watch Frawley win a premiership.  I don't recall his exact words but it was something like: '...if the premiership isn't with Melbourne it won't mean anything to me...'  

Hope we get it before he hangs up his boots.

Its tragic that the last game to feature on the list was 8 years ago!!

The only thing that really appealed about the article is this pic

Neiter saying to Hird: '...yeah Mr Arrogant Smarty Pants...come and get me...I'll wipe that smirk off your face!!