Lucifers Hero

Players should sue their lawyers!  Not only have they received terrible advice from the start, they did not object to WADA 'strands in a cable' approach at the beginning of the hearing.  After they heard that approach they tried to get it thrown out.  Too late, said CAS.  See s 110, 111 and 112 http://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Arbitral_Award_WADA_ESSENDON.pdf

S 120 lays out the 'strands in a cable' approach taken by WADA...no wonder player lawyers suddenly wanted to rescind their agreement to allow WADA to use that approach.

CAS quite clearly shows how it connected the dots.  BTW, CAS exonerate Dr Reid.

You have to wonder if at any stage the player lawyers actually looked to how WADA or CAS operate.  Incompetence, ignorance, hubris - who knows but the players are entitled to ask them a few  questions.

And, all the people giving interviews in the media should stop and read the report as they are clearly talking drivel!!

3 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Report, all 48 pages of it are here:

 

http://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Arbitral_Award_WADA_ESSENDON.pdf

Significantly, that report says 'urine samples' in 2012 confirmed players were injected with TB4'.  It also says players did not get 'no significant fault' discount because they signed consent forms!!

To repeat what I noted in an earlier post - there is no room at all now, for EFC to try and argue 'but the players did nothing wrong' or the equally banal 'they were duped'. 

CAS has slammed the door shut on anyone else in the world trying a similar program.  A very good thing for clean sport.

"The players did not qualify for cooperation, either, which can reduce sentences by a further six months"

Looks like CAS bought none of the hype: no allowance for cooperation, no allowance for 'no or reduced fault'. 

A very, very strong condemnation of the players.  Effectively saying they were fully complicit.  No watering down, no opportunity for
EFC to draw any sort of 'but the players are innocent' hype.   

Just now, beelzebub said:

Surprised he's compus mentus !!

He won't be for long bb...big drinking session coming up for Robbo, I suspect!

Looks like a 2 year suspension, backdated to the SCN's in November 2014.

Justice has been done.  That is all the sporting world ever asked for.

GUILTY!! Its official.  To miss the season!!

I read that twit (timed @ 6.40 am), bb and thought EFC know the result and is preparing their members for a guilty verdict and nasty suspensions. They would be fine tuning their press release atmo.

The longer the delay in announcement the more likely:  'guilty'.

Conclusion:  they are GAWN!

For the record:

Verdict: guilty

Sanction: 2 years, backdated to SCN ie Oct 2014.  Further backdating for delays (Fed Court) out of player control ie back to first round of SCN's in June 2014.  Therefore, suspension period expires June 2016 earlier if CAS find other mitigating circumstances.  Players miss 10 to 12 games.

CAS remove Watson's brownlow.

CAS take no action against coaches, management or other support staff.

All are in the starting blocks ready to take civil legal action on behalf of the players:  http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-supplements-saga-civil-action-by-essendon-34-likely-says-player-agent-20160111-gm3amf.html

It reads as if the civil action will be taken regardless of the CAS outcome - no surprise.  Civil action has been obvious since Ziggy put out his 'pharmacological experiment' report in mid 2013.

dc the article says the verdict will be known early tomorrow morning.

24 minutes ago, old dee said:

About 30 minutes before they release the Dusty findings is my estimate dc.

od, the Dusty findings were released 2 days before Christmas when, of course no would notice.  Outcome: Police dropped the case.  No criminal offence had occurred.  Therefore AFL and RFC decided no reason to take action.  That a crime is not required to bring 'the game into disrepute' was conveniently forgotten.  Players have lost games for much less.  http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/dustin-martin-chopstick-investigation-dropped-20151222-gltn9k.html

BTW, the same day the AFLPA released their findings on Treloar's Manager (Bulcher??) and the surgery he 'requested' and 'paid for.  They found no case to answer.  Again 'timely' release ensured it was swept under the carpet.  http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/manager-peter-blucher-cleared-in-adam-treloar-surgery-investigation-20151222-glt43l.html

The integrity of the AFL Integrity unit and the AFPLA dropped a few notches at Christmas.

12 hours ago, Good Times Grimes said:

I believe that we're allowed to promote one rookie prior to round one regardless of injury.

I guess that refers to the 'nominated' rookie rule which is connected to the movement of players to the veterans list.

Not sure but I think this has been changed and now a rookie promotion is for a LTIL or after the bye. 

Would be good to have some clarity if anyone knows.

1 hour ago, P-man said:

Interesting comments on Viv:

“Viv probably played his best footy towards the end of last season. He gave himself a chance, but we needed numbers on the list for the draft, so it meant he dropped back to the rookie list. He’s training well and he needs to get fitter – he knows that – but he’s working hard at that area of the game. He has shown he can play AFL football, but it’s just a matter of him pushing hard now and doing everything he possibly can to get in the round one side.” – Paul Roos

On face value, Roosy has more faith in him than might be expected.

I found the round one side comment by Roos surprising.  He may have forgotten that Mitchie is a Rookie.  But that is unlike Roos especially as it could give false hope to Mitchie.  

So I wonder who he plans to 'drop' from the seniors side or put on the LTIL.  Current potential candidates: Melksham, Trengove, Frost, Petracca

Yes, the Richmond win was especially emotional for him.  And who can forget his elation when he jumped into Neeld's arms after we snatched a win from EFC a year or two ago (he played FF that day and kicked a few). 

He is by all accounts a quiet man but he wears his heart on his sleeve. 

Always a fan of his but my love for him went up after the Grand Final and he was asked what it was like to watch Frawley win a premiership.  I don't recall his exact words but it was something like: '...if the premiership isn't with Melbourne it won't mean anything to me...'  

Hope we get it before he hangs up his boots.

Its tragic that the last game to feature on the list was 8 years ago!!

The only thing that really appealed about the article is this pic

Neiter saying to Hird: '...yeah Mr Arrogant Smarty Pants...come and get me...I'll wipe that smirk off your face!!

Like Roos, Misson sounds very peeved at Petracca's toe injury: '...while Misson admitted that Christian Petracca’s latest setback — a broken toe that will see him sidelined for four weeks — is a frustrating one after 12 months on the sidelines after a knee reconstruction, the club is trying to keep its expectations in check to avoid disappointment. “We were trying really hard ourselves not to get too excited (about Christian returning),” he said.  “We’ll have to cool our heels a little bit.”

Not much sympathy coming from head coach nor head of fitness for Petracca, so can't help but think that he wasn't following instructions.

The Norm Smith Curse re-enters the building!

But then again, I'm not sure he ever left, lay low for a while maybe, lurking to see our spirits rise then jolting us back into the reality of MFCSS!!

A great rap from Roos for Hunt: “Hunty’s really grown – literally. He now has an AFL body and he’s got elite speed, which we’re starting to see at training. He’s come out of his shell a bit with his personality. It’s been hard for him, when you’re not playing and you’ve been out injured for most of the time. Now, he’s back in training and really enjoying it and doing well, so he’s starting to have an impact, which is good.” – Paul Roos

For a while there Hunt was struggling to make an impact even at Casey and some doubted he would get a new contract.  We don't really have players with 'elite speed' and with 'an AFL body' but given Roos comments he will get his chances in 2016.  He provides more competition for the on-baller spots...at 187cm he is one of the taller guys vying for those 10-12 roles.

Looking forward to a really good year from him be it at Casey or the seniors.  Just hope he stays injury free and has a really good run at it.

I guess we always get platitudes in the preseason.  This one is a bit different.  Last year Grimes was dropped because his game was too self-centred.  Jones (captain that is) received a similar talk from Roos.  Both too worried about personal stats.  Both co-caps from 2014 needed to be told by the coach.  Both players improved somewhat in 2015 on the selfless scale.  But improved enough? 

We can all see that teamwork has been diabolical, especially when the going gets tough in games.  Chips down each and every player goes into 'self preservation' mode. 

The coaches are working hard to get a team ethic going.  Hope the players are listening!  We will know soon enough if this 'selfless' message means anything or just more puff.

I'll give BombayA the benefit of the doubt and say he probably meant the lowest point in Essendon's history...coming off a 100++ point thrashing by the saints while ess players couldn't be bothered in their 3rd consecutive 'annus horribilis' season...and we still lost!!!

1 hour ago, Whispering_Jack said:

And here's a season preview I found somewhere with some interesting views on where we're going.

Interesting comments about the draw and the teams we play twice - certainly tougher than the teams that finished around our part of the ladder.

Also, I hadn't realised we had 7 interstate games (plus a trip to Geelong).  2 are our home games in NT but usually this results in us having less 'other' interstate trips so overall we travel 5/6 times.  The draw looks tougher now than it did when first released. 

Reading that article makes me temper my prediction for the no of wins in 2016.  But, it may be character building - if we are to play finals in the next few years we need to become a win 'anywhere, anytime, vs anyone' team.

10 minutes ago, Dees2014 said:

It is the attitude here from Goodwin which worries me. Clearly he believes it is ok personally to take performance enhancing drugs, which very much fits into the Hird credo, who has been taking them for years through his long term friendship with Charters.  The question I have is how far does this philosophy go. Both Hird and Goodwin have demonstrated by these actions that they are not unfamiliar with obtaining and using performance enhancing drugs.

Is this the sort of mindset that we want in our coach who we hope will take us into a new golden era. You couldn't imagine highly disciplined and perfectionist coaches like Clarkson or Lyon having such slack and dodgy personal habits and thoughts.

I know people on here do not like me saying this, but why was any of this not uncovered by the MFC in their supposedly extensive due diligence, or worse still, did they simply ignore it?

I don't know why you keep harping on about this and keep criticising the club!  There was nothing to uncover as the ABC article bing181 quotes was in April 2013 and Goodwin was recruited late 2013.  The club knew all there was to know.  Do you really think the club did not grill him on it!  Do you really think they simply ignored the ABC report and other information they gathered. 

Simply, the club made a rational decision on Goodwin, weighing up the risks and making whatever contingency plans were necessary.  We now have smart operators running our club and to pot them is just plain silly...  Anyway, the subject of Goodwin's appointment was done to death on this thread about 25 pages ago! 

BTW, I think you still owe 'binman' answers to his questions.

On 23/12/2015 at 8:31 PM, Six6Six said:

Take 2 : The Truck  ==> http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-KXgjvb 

Pics show he is moving really well on his left leg...great sign as it was his left acl injured last year!

3 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

probably why only one of the called in players was a current essendon player?

Further to that - only one player called in was a current AFL player, anywhere.

7 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Isn't that the central point of the players' argument? That they didn't take "z"?

I'd hardly expect the players to say they took "z" if they honestly believe they did not. If they know they took "z" and haven't fessed up, that's a very different proposition.

In 2012 the players signed 'consent' forms for some type of Thymosin (lets assume the good one). 

As I mentioned the silence was during 2012 routine drug tests. 

Why did no player tested during 2012 mention the good Thymosin at the time of testing?  They believed it to be legal, knew it was WADA approved and knew they had taken it.  After all it was for the good Thymosin they signed the consent forms. 

28 minutes ago, Chris said:

I think it was around matters where Young had said there is evidence the players took x,y, and z. Here is the evidence, yet during the interviews the players on mass only mentioned x and y, why did none of them mention z when it was clearly given to them. 

The players were called in to explain why they had not mentioned z as the panel found it very disturbing that they had not mentioned it. 

Sounds like instructions were given to players on what to admit to and what to not admit to given they all failed to mention one substance. That is not a good look when uncovered. 

Just a small clarificatoin 'Chris':  I don't think it was during the ASADA interviews for their investigation of the supplements saga (where all players had time to cook up the same story). 

I think it was that the players withheld information at the time of the in season drug testing in 2012 ie while they were taking the supplements.  Players are obliged/reguired to declare any medication/supplements at these routine drug tests.  These tests are done at various intervals/samples so very difficult to collaborate en mass.  As you say they all forgot to mention z which was Thymosin (good or bad).  Looked suspicious! 

I mention the clarification (home you don't mind) as I believe it is a greater condemnation of the players silence as it was before anything had been discovered.  Rhetorical question:  why keep it a secret!!  We will find out in a few weeks!!