The heart beats true

I think I'm seeing this slightly differently than some (and admittedly am disregarding his history and just judging the play as it happened). I think he jumped as he thought he was getting a clearer run at the play than he did. I then think he turned his body when he realized contact was coming with Joseph. I don't think he intended not to hit him. I think he did. My issue is more that I guess I'd give him the benefit of the doubt in that context (being mid air) as it was a strange up and under hand pass that you rarely see for the reasons that Aaron Joseph's head clearly felt. I'd guess you could call it reckless, but 4 weeks seems insane when you look at the incident in isolation. Interestingly the umpire who was 10 feet away clearly says to the players 'he was just going the footy' after the incident. My biggest concern with all this is that the game keeps being viewed out of context and I think it makes it very difficult on the players. I imagine it's quite disconcerting for the umpires as they are over ruled consistently.

Few folks been talking about this over in the Judd thread D2. I think the issue for mind is that the game seems to be played twice now. Once on the field, and then once in the court of public opinion which also has the luxury of slow motion replays. From memory the umpire played no free kick in the incident (might be wrong about this?) but the incident has been scrutinized 1,000 times since and became something that it clearly wasn't when viewed in the context of the game. 4 weeks is a joke.

Good point. With free agency it's hard to ignore that it only costs cash. We're not trading away our future, only spending what we need to spend now. Another way to phrase it would be 'are we willing to cut 3 older players with no potential for growth for the salary of a 27 year old Goddard'. I'd vote yes to that.

Absolutely. I often think that the success of the tribunal should be evaluated on how effectively could you show 2 similar incidents to someone that's never seen the game before and have them understand why one is worse than the other. In the Wellingham vs. Ziebell case it would be impossible to reach the same conclusion as the MRP. One appears deliberate and callous, while the other appears to happen in the play and without another alternative for the offending player.

I think the problem with JT is that he's not capable of a burst run. He's painfully slow and looks to have lost his ability to step up a gear when needed. I hear you on the list of players that don't hit targets though. Grimes is having a really bad year with kicking, but I know he'll get better.

It's a structural thing. I think Chipper takes the kick outs against teams that play deep with a marking target (Pavlich). I also think with Watts out he's the default. The longer Strauss is in the side the more he can take that role.

I know it won't be very popular here but I think 4 weeks is about right. A precedent is now set. BUT I think 4 weeks for Ziebell is very tough. When you watch it in real time you realize he had 1/10th of a second to decide what to do. If he doesn't go he's Josh Hunt from a few rounds back when everyone called him soft. It feels like too much emphasis is put on slow motion footage and not enough common sense is used by people who've played the game. Thats why Judd's was ordinary. It was premeditated. You don't just accidently end up in the situation he did.

Got the same stance on Barassi? How do you feel about Todd Viney leaving to coach The poo? I say we have a little grace and dignity towards a former player that was a good one in his day.

Agreed. I imagine Ratten was on monster.com as you typed this RR.

I've just looked into this thread. I honestly thought it was a joke like the Jack Watts threads from a month or so back. When it got to 4 pages I thought it must be getting pretty funny. Unfortunately it is real, but fortunately it's seriousness is painful funny. Up next - the Trade Mitch Clark thread (he'd have value in the market, and he's done nothing for us the last few weeks)

I was referring to the supporters, as noted by my quoting of a previous comment. I never suggested that anyone was an auto start. I was merely highlighting the clubs recent form with handling players in the twilight of their careers can't be undersold in the context of Bruce's decision making. Even the suggestion that he left for less money kind of flips the switch on the mercenary tag. He was witnessing first hand a culture that wasn't placing any value on experience yet somehow he's to blame? I think the club should share half the reponsibility is all, and Cam Bruce should be remembered more fondly than some on here clearly do.

Like the love Brad Green gets? I think you can't underestimate the club culture when Jnr. was given the boot. All the 'hard men' of the internet think that he's a traitor for trying to extend his career and for fearing the lack of regard given by the club to anyone over 23. Regardless Cam was a great player who was very highly regarded in the AFL system.

It's as if the MFC aren't looking at D'Land for advice. The nerve!

This comment is far too logical for this thread.

Don't get the Russian bashing. If he was surrounded by decent players no one would ever question him. Agree on the Jones comments. Has shown a lot of fight this year.

Brian Royal. Definitely. Seriously - add Jamar. Surely we need him until some else comes on.

Add 2 quality 23 year old midfielders, put 20 more games into our current list and get Clark, Watts, Jones, Jamar, Sylvia, Frawley, Howe and Jurrah in our team playing together for a full season and a lot of these fringe players look a lot better because their not expected to carry as much weight. Better run with injuries and good experienced drafting and we will be much more competitive. Or we could throw the baby out with the bath water which would prove to be popular on D'land after every loss it seems.

Let me add some passed players in for context: R. Flower - has a dip but not proven in finals. D. Neitz - needs to work on set shot run in J. Stynes - not a natural AFL footballer I'm glad you're not our list management or we'd be drafting 35 new blokes.

Agree FYD. Effort was good. When the game was played on our terms without injury we were 3 goals up. Bit stiff given what Spencer showed last week to go in with no 3rd ruck man and then have that happen. We really can't get enough footy to win a game though. Too many midfielders not competitive enough. Looking forward to KC's excellent reports to hear who might push up.

Please can we now acknowledge that if he wasn't the captain he wouldn't be getting a game? Struggling.

We have been incredibly unlucky in this game. It heartbreaking to watch.

If we had no injuries we'd be 5 goals up on Freo. Really happy with the endeavor but gees I wish we didn't turn the ball over in the middle like we do. I think this is a combination of no forwards and no foot skills.

Can not take a trick this year. Jamar down after Spencer showed a bit last week but not on the park. I really think that threw us out a lot in terms of forward structure without Stef forward and it showed in the 2nd quarter. On a big positive note - Strauss! A player with foot skills.

I'm not sure what his reasoning would be to even do that? He has to get at least 2 weeks for that. Given the ridiculous emphasis placed on injury by the MRP I hope North say he has severe joint damage, pulled several ligaments, has post traumatic stress disorder and contracted Hepatitis A from the incident.

It was still too early for Silvagni to know which players the Giants wanted in the draft, but he had been impressed with two father-son picks in Joe Daniher and Jack Viney . They are clearly tampering with the draft if they select Viney at 1-5 based on current opinion. Maybe the AFL introduce a plan whereby all teams have to submit a ranking system for players 1-30 to avoid this kind of thing. I honestly don't think they'll go through with it unless they want to draw some serious heat, but then again I can't really see Andy D coming down on them either.