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Dont know that WADA consider bringing the game into disrepute. Surely the emphasis has to be on wiping out performance enhancing drugs. Still think the variable scale may be applied some more guilty than others on the basis of evidence and performance.

Great shots 6 Gee the coaching staff look in good nick. Not many shots of players shepherding and providing cover for the player once they dispose of the ball does that happen?

Thanks again KC and MNY 11 shots to 8 is that forward dominance?

ixcellunt Not sure if NZ or Scottish

This is such an obvious management statement that it is often overlooked or more often ignored in pursuit of singular or more extreme ideas.

Ollie is a good player Toump may or may not have been better depends which conspiracy theory you choose to follow. Hopefully Roosy and other coaches will be in Toumps ear and tell him what he needs to do to be better than Ollie. Toump will hopefully not be haunted and falter but will improve. He may not become as good as Ollie as it will also depend upon his teammates development. JV and TV also have something to prove and will need toump to restore their credibility The better Ollie is the better our guys must be .

not sure of reality measures but with a mother at 5 foot and dad @5'7 i was destined to be a jockey. Always had to sit in front of class at photo time sometimes almost obscured by the sign I was holding. Footy was out of the question as I was also slow. But could go all day good build for cross country. Also was steered to baseball as the sport had a special position just for me, and had no strike zone as shoulders and knees were so close together. I was under 5 foot in matric (year 12) Cant remember growing pains but remember economic pain as I started to grow as soon as I was out of folks care and had to buy new clothes and shoes for work. Was one of the few kids with an account at the shoe shop and clothes store as I was upgrading clothes faster than my salary. Im still not a giant at 5'9 but tower over dad

I think you have nailed it . We have had kids capable of playing( high draft picks) "Melbourne" players receive no protection from the umpires and "first year" players seem to be more harshly treated no doubt in order to teach them how the umpires wish the game to be played. The combination of being a "first year Melbourne" player is not conducive to good development. On debut they are left to play by themselves and have had little on field support. Watts was the worst example of a first year player being thrown to the wolves as not one teammate stood next to him or went to contest against the three Collingwood players who just smashed him. The umpires gave him no support despite several punches to the head Opposition players have licence to treat Vineys back as a trampoline our recruits seem to be treated to a higher degree of scrutiny than other teams recruits at matches that I have seen . Our top picks have also been introduced with game plans which were ineffective As is often stated it would be interesting to see how Dangerfield or Wines would have coped with the additional load of a Melbourne Recruit. Thank Goodness Roos seems to have a better game plan and a better introduction strategy It will be interesting to see how ait pans out

Whats the intensity at training like now?. It has been suggested that it had improved. Have they maintained the improvement? Was there any reflection on the intensity of the doggies game (2 halfs), and was there any variation given that we will be playing an Essendon squad which is compromised? There may be players prepared to coast but more likely a lot have something to prove, (Magner)

do the "secret strategies" include how to mask specified "pharmacological experiments" through retention of legal advisers to ensure no trail of correspondence or evidence is available?

But at the moment "Essendon have done nothing wrong". The players are all victims. The AFL is victimising James. It is definitely why this case has to be finalised with adequate penalties

The blase approach to drugs by AFL footballers is another reason why ASADA and WADA need to impose significant penalties on Essendon.

I reckon this accords with my thoughts #2557 on 3/3 "the scaling of penalties from Danks down to the players. That is that as the AFL need a scapegoat to show WADA that they are genuine about drugs in sport Danks can be banned for life. Hird gets banned for life. DR Reid gets banned from sport for life. Little and EFC board banned and removed. Players who have left get 2 years. Watson forfeits brownlow . Watson and Fletcher 12 months from International game. players still listed get 12 months from when notices issued free to play after 4 rounds. This allows for severity to be acknowledged and some players disposed of while allowing the club to continue in a revised form with existing "duped" players continuing in a remorseful state." If any whitewash presented on 31st anticipate ASADA and WADA to go full bore at AFL

HAve tried to resist comment BUT Noted New Balance signage on tent and some advertising on Umberella So not that hard MAybe could have been promoted a bit more professionally to get even more numbers there to achieve all the returns that others have indicated. Not a pass mark at all.

You could have identified another matter. A placebo group. Why didnt I think of that Heres the comprehensive records of players who have now all retired (or gone to another club) they took the drugs to which you allude and appear to be (unfortunately) not approved due to our administrative errors for which we have been roundly condemned and chastised by the AFL These are the records of our currently listed playing group who were all given a placebo to ensure the veracity of our rigorous scientific test. Oh MY God

This is an amazing listen Danks does think hes the smartest guy in the profession pushing the boundaries, advancing the science, etc, and there is no doubt he has got plenty of knowledge BUT wanting to keep the integrity of his intellectual property but not keeping records of that property seems a tad bizarre. His relationship with Dean is almost sycophantic and its interesting that there is a relationship while Dean was at Geelong with Bomber, that may be a link that ASADA with its forensic powers had identified.

SOMEWHAT??????? Wasnt that how it all started Demetriou with an informal off the record chat with Bombers You know get your house in order, the shits about to hit the fan The silly buggers turned on the fan>

Thanks BB It has been and still is a fantastic display of power and influence more than just football and is certainly not yet finished. We sit back and wait. This discussion has been going on at our squash club since the start with Bombers supporters initially defending Hird and the club as the victims. As it has progressed they have diminished support with comments such as Im not paying membership to keep the lawyers driving ferraris Hird is the problem and has to go. They too are waiting but still have the we were victimised cry. It will be interesting if out of the wreckage a "what doesnt kill us will make us stronger " will be achieved.

Yes Well not the preamble and the tassie bombers bit. but the scaling of penalties from Danks down to the players. That is that as the AFL need a scapegoat to show WADA that they are genuine about drugs in sport Danks can be banned for life. Hird gets banned for life. DR Reid gets banned from sport for life. Little and EFC board banned and removed. Players who have left get 2 years. Watson forfeits brownlow . Watson and Fletcher 12 months from International game. players still listed get 12 months from when notices issued free to play after 4 rounds. This allows for severity to be acknowledged and some players disposed of while allowing the club to continue in a revised form with existing "duped" players continuing in a remorseful state.

BB would like your opinion on this comment of mine. I appreciate others opinions but think I have been convinced by your argument.

from this article "certain to be banned for life" ???????? From The Age the AFL tribunal is a kangaroo court. Will provide the information to appropriate legal body Hasnt he refused to appear before any body so far????

Most names pretty familiar but FF Rowarth doesn't ring any bells and cant remember Keneally on the wing, probably just overlooked them while watching Dixon and Big Bob do their thing.

Have followed this thread with interest. Thanks for everyone who has contributed. I am coming to a conclusion without being able to reference all who have provided detail to lead me to it that there is definitely guilt. The program was conducted records have mysteriously disappeared. ASADA and WADA are bigger than the AFL which has tried to remove the problem telling Essendon to stop and fining them. Hird and Little actions bought time to satisfy AFL but has inflamed ASADA The difficulty of this first revealed offence in AFL has huge ramifications for the total competition which AFL knew scapegoats will be needed to satisfy WADA DAnks gets banned for life. Hird gets banned for life DR gets banned from sport for life Little and EFC board banned and removed. Players who have left get 2 years Watson forfeits brownlow Watson and Fletcher 12 months from International game players still listed get 12 months from when notices issued free to play after 4 rounds EFC disbanded Workcover claims against Little and other legal entities New Tassie bombers emerges from the wreckage to take their place in the AFL competition. Will be interested to see if any of those are even close to the mark

I certainly did not intend to trivialise it and regret my rego example may have done. I am more certain that I do not know the facts . As I stated he may well have been advised the matter was in the hands of the legals. The club report did indicate they would investigate it and take action. I rely on them to investigate and take appropriate action in mind that the courts will also make a decision. Courts may well decide that as he is a highly paid employee he can sustain a large fine rather than custodial, if the club then fines him he will be being more harshly treated than the courts intended. There are many levels of judgement and rehabilitation Only intensive examination and wisdom will arrive at the appropriate penalty. At the risk of derailing the thread the current case in Indonesia shows clearly how there are many levels of guilt, remorse, rehabilitation and retribution. Unless you are close to the scene and are aware of all the facts it is silly to pass judgement.