rjay

If we don't get Cameron then I would seriously look at McCartin if he was available.

I don't think it would have mattered that much, he was lacking in too many areas to be a top line player. I think that's true. I see it as a player able to do the extraordinary and not just once or twice in a career that's why I named the players I did. I don't see this in Col, I do get what you are saying though based on your definition.

Agree with you, he is not a natural footballer for all the reasons you give. His skills and attributes in isolation are good, he can mark, he can kick, he can run, he is strong...he just can't put it all together to be a good footballer. I think there is doubt on what the recruiters look at though, in particular ours of recent past. Maybe if they had looked at things a bit more clearly we wouldn't be where we are now.

I was talking about his X-Factor and I never saw it, to me that is the ability to break a game apart. Cyril has it, Motlop has it, Gary senior had it...mercurial footballers who could turn a game with something out of the box. Col has never had this.

When did he show it 'Bob'? He is a well built player who rarely used that strength at AFL level and I never saw the endurance you speak of. He was (I think he may have played his last senior game) and is a very limited footballer who has been highly over rated by people who thought he had this amazing ability that he has never had. It wasn't in his mind, he just wasn't good enough.

Don't agree with this, I know it's been said on a number of times and I've said this a number of times. Col has never had the ability to be the player many seem to think he should have been and he's proving it this year as he has every year of his career. He's just not that good, he has no x-factor, he's a long kick to no one who can take an occasional good mark.

Yep, agree. We are light on for KPP and if Frawley goes it only makes the problem worse.

Thanks 'P-man', just brilliant mate.

I agree with what you say with the exception of the last bit. Yes we do have a desperate need for a KPP but not at the expense of the best available. It's trying to pick and choose on needs that is mostly responsible for where we are now.

Thanks 'Chaser', I think he's worth watching. I was impressed with how he positioned himself for clearances from ruck contests, centre and around the ground and as you say he has good hands in close. Also noticed he had a good turn of pace and seemed to cover a lot of ground. Could be a real bargain. Laverde is an interesting one. He has some good tricks but I'm not sure of his footy smarts. Ahern has a lot of talent no doubt about that, might not need high possessions to impact a game.

Would think he had only a minor role. These kids can already play when they get to the TAC cup level, they get a bit of education then the real work starts when they get to an AFL club.

About to post the same thing 'Axis', I wouldn't bother with a thing he says or what Brenton Phillips has to say. Every year the greatest player to come out of the Falcons or finest young leader/prospect from SA is coming into the system. They're just looking to keep a good gig. I wonder if he got it right with Gary jnr if he was around then?

Could be right here 'Machsy', I've mentioned Gore a couple of times and he's likely to go in the 20's if not later but to me looks like the most natural mid of the lot. Have you got an opinion on him?

Doesn't look cleaver enough to be Sam Mitchell.

It's only on one game 'Bob', the dossier will be a lot bigger than that. I trust we have a better handle on drafting than in the past. The one person I wouldn't listen to is Brenton Phillips though, the SA coach talks up his players (I know Petracca isn't one of his) as much as Shifter Sheehan.

No, I didn't either 'Bob' but he sure has a good set of hands in a marking contest.

...and this is exactly what I'm saying 'Adam', we need to build the list properly this time. The bolded part expresses things perfectly for me.

The only one with outright speed there 'Axis' is Hunt and he is very much a project player with no guarantee of making through the first couple of years. Salem has AFL level speed nothing out of the box, JKH is not quick for his size. In the Rookies there is no outright pace or class.

No it doesn't and I think there are but we have given away a lot of our picks in this area over the last 3 years. Clark, Dawes, Vince and Tyson all cost us picks in the late teens early 20's and most overlook this. There is a guy called Dean Gore that I really rate on one viewing (I'm going to go back and look at some of his other games) and he is not rated in the top 20 of the so called experts. Look at the Doggies list now, they have invested heavily in the draft and will reap the rewards. We are coming from a long way back and needed to get some experience and leadership into the club. Thank goodness we got Cross and I think Vince has been a good get but we really still lack in young top end talent. I like Tyson, Viney is a beauty, Salem has promise but a long, long way to go and of course Hogan. I don't see anyone else knocking the door down yet. JKH is highly over rated on output at this stage and is no guarantee to make it, Toumpas is to date a disappointment, Kent shows glimpses but really needs to get a lot more footy at the moment he shows less than Tapscott did at a similar stage of his career, Tommy Mc has a lot of flaws in his game but has a good go at it. We do need top end talent, the right top end talent and we need balance in our drafting approach. If we give away all our top end picks this year it will be to make us competitive in the next few years and everyone will say what a genius Roos is but it will never win us that elusive flag and will put us in an even worse position in 4 to 5 years.

Our folly has been the wrong picks and poor trades 'BB', aided by poor management and the introduction of 2 new teams. That's why we have what we have now. If we trade to get a bump now it will be the biggest mistake this club could make. I've said before there is a reason that the AFL imposes draft sanctions, why they effect the long term success of a club and why clubs want to trade back in early. By trading out our high picks we effectively create our own draft sanctions. Last years Tyson trade was a good one because we still got a top 10 pick from it and we managed to right a previous mistake in getting another top 10 pick from a couple of years back, that is not likely to be the case this year. If we're serious about future success we can't trade that away. We need to draft quality at the top end, trade for experience with players, look for value in players like Sinclair and set our selves to go hard at free agency in the next 2 years, not this year. Free agency is where we will get the icing on the top. We should also be pushing for at least 2 PP's this year one at the start of first round and one at the end(at least one of these I would look to trade). Forget the howling of other clubs, it's time our supporters and members considered only our club and started pushing back on the AFL. The introduction of the 2 new clubs has hurt our ability to be competitive, if the AFL is serious about equalisation then this is where they should start, on the ground. They will need to do similar with Brisbane and St Kilda in the next few years. I would love to have McCartin and Petracca at our club. They will both be walk up starts and with Hogan, Viney, McDonald, Salem and Tyson set the way for future success. They will now come into a system with Jones, Cross and Vince giving strong leadership going forward. I was not in favour of bringing in O'Keefe but on reflection adding him to that leadership group and getting a few games out of him might not be a bad thing for the development of a new group.

Chaser, have you seen much of Dean Gore? I was very impressed with him in the last game. Could end up a real bargain pick.

Sorry 'Jack', beat me by that much...

Not sure on this 'Machsy', I guess it's a wait and see. I think if St Kilda or Brisbane get pick one they will take McCartin. If either get pick 2 then St Kilda may go for Petracca but Brisbane with pick 2 would go with Wright. There's no guarantees that we won't have a top 2 pick.

Very clean hands, good kick and good awareness.

That's an interesting idea...