Macca

We really are poorly coached with zero system. The players are trying but not only are we devoid of skill, there's no purpose with how we play. We're not decisive and our confidence is non existent. It's quite sad to watch really. If this was a suburban or country footy game you'd swap the forward line with the backline. Either that or just a straight man on man game. Just do something different. It just goes to show how difficult it is to step up from being an assistant to the head role. I actually feel for Neeld in a way - he just hasn't got. The club is always bigger than any individual. The pre-match thing was uncomfortable and let's face it, if we go down by 80+ points then it's going to be discussed ad nauseam.

I have no idea where this conversation is going. If you don't like Gonzo's post, take it up with him. I liked the post, you didn't. Let's agree to disagree.

Read my post again. I specifically said 'With a few exceptions' . I didn't see the need to point out what those exceptions were because on an overall basis I thought it was an excellent post. Most of Gonzo's post was accurate in my opinion. Are you saying it was all untrue? If you're going to quote me, leave the whole quote in so as not to take me out of context.

Good work Gonzo, and I hope everyone takes the time to read it. With a few exceptions, I'd agree with your well thought out and researched post. As you said, it's up to others to make up their minds to what it all means and points to. I thought you were, on the whole, largely unbiased. Well put together and an excellent 'time line'.

The first 5 minutes will tell us a story, 'cfh'. As it often does. If we come out of the blocks, we've got a chance of making a game of it. Even if all that happened, the last quarter could also tell a tale. Fresh legs could win out if the extra weeks rest is a factor. We've got an obligation to start well with a fierce attack on the ball. After last Sunday, anything less than that will be unacceptable. I'm reasonably confident we'll have a go early. We can't not turn up again.

Can you name the Street so we can have a media contingent there? (just in case) 'Chook runs naked down the High Street - blames his Demons'

There are other ways, Bossdog. What if the current board realised amongst themselves that the club might be better off with a new Board. That they'd had good go at it and were prepared to let others to have a go. They could commission an independent sub committee to seek out and find a brand new Board. There could be a smooth changover without any blood letting. I know you've coached a truckload of games at a good level and you must have seen committees/ executives or Boards change hands. I know I've seen it. I've seen both blood letting and smooth changeovers. I've nothing personal against any on our Board or any of our paid Administrators but sometimes you just need change. Sometimes you just have to do the right thing even though you may be personally effected.

The Junction oval was renowned for having the best surface in the League to train on. Fair enough on the rest of it but a team will learn most of the fundamentals out on an oval. As for gym work and other aspects of training up a team, you find a way and you become resourceful. We probably just sat on our hands. We actually played finals on a semi regular basis when we were at the Junction oval. Now we have all these 'State of the art' facilities and we can't win a game.

Yeah, but in Viney's case, what would he look like if he'd never seen the inside of a gym? Remembering that he started looking like he does when he was 16 or 17. His old man would have had a lot to do with it, but Jack is a self starter. Not necessarily disagreeing with you RF, but it has to be a bit of both (recruiting and development). Not neither/nor. A lot of our blokes seem to just be happy to be part of the system and our club allows them to continually think this way. We are too soft as a club and our standards have been set too low. They might be training a lot harder but our players are poor at the fundamentals of the game. It's staring us right in the face. Everyone at the club needs to examine what they bring to the table. They all need to get a lot better. Everyone.

If you've got copies of Heartbeat from previous years, check out our arm sizes and the shoulders on our blokes. We look puny. And that is just one aspect. No, it's not just about the drafting and never will be. Do we have a kicking coach down at the club? If so, who is he and how does he still have a job. We are woeful with our kicking skills and the club has had ample time to improve their kicking skills. Too much emphasis on processes, structures, systems and not enough on the basic skills of the game. In any sport, a player has to have good basic skills before he and all the others can progress to parts 4, 5 and 6 of a game plan. If you can't get the ball enough and then do something with it with good disposal, how on Earth can you execute any sort of game plan? We can blame BP until the cows come home but we can't change it back. But we can do something right now about our development.

Yep CBF, people can go on about "It's only one game" but .... if we only get 5 wins or less this season then references will be made back to the 1st game of the year. Much like last years season was defined by our dismal effort against Brisbane in the 1st game. I know this thread is about Cook but it's about so much more than Lucas. He is representative of how our club drafts and develops our players. Take Viney for instance. He comes into the club after looking like he's spent his entire life devoting himself to be a good footballer. He's obviously worked hard in the gym and is a self made player. I would be stunned if he doesn't make it. There might be more than a few at the club 'claiming credit' but considering our history in development how can they? Viney is an aberration unfortunately. Maybe a few on the list will look at him and Jones and see how it's done. Hope so. Most of our blokes not only don't approach footy the same way as Viney but the club doesn't demand it of them. The bar has been set far too low. The easy 'out' is to just blame our drafting but this may not even be the issue in a number of cases. We develop poorly and have done for a number of years. Half our blokes can't even kick the ball well to position. The standards should be set exceptionally high at our club. They talk about it but we don't see the evidence of it. The proof is in the pudding - fundamentals aren't there.

I agree, the club doesn't talk about winning. If they're not talking about it then they're not thinking about it. They talk about 'bi-products', structures, processes, systems etc etc. It's all bs, rhetoric and it's all said to 'deflect'. And a fair percentage of supporters lap it up. You were right Wyl, we needed a clean out after '186'. We could somehow win tonight, but the club isn't getting any real praise from me until we put in a sustained effort for a number of games. It's all about winning. Those who believe otherwise are making excuses in advance. The real world punishes losers and always will.

Isn't it just ridiculous. Just about everyone on this site would know what the basic fundamentals of the game are so it's hardly 'ground breaking' stuff that I've mentioned. It all starts out of the middle. Our centre clearance onballers often get caught from behind (Sylvia was a major culprit last weekend) Jamar's taps go nowhere so that bit has to be addressed. Jones is our only onballer who reads the play well, plays in front of his man, gets the ball and then tries to do something with it. Viney should develop into a similar player but the rest of them have no idea. More should be expected and demanded from our players (especially our midfielders) It's not enough to merely say "They're all crap". They'll all got ability (you don't get onto an AFL list without a certain amount of ability) The club has a history of not developing our players well and the players themselves are not self motivated enough to improve (aside from Jones, Clark and probably Viney) 3 blokes - that's all I can find.

I specifically said in the opening sentence that I'm not letting Cook or Prendergast off the hook. Refer to post #12. I'm not letting the club off the hook in any way. I pointed out that there were more mistakes and obvious errors made than just the pick in the draft. Bigger picture stuff - and Bailey and now Neeld are all part of it. Here's a list of the basic fundamentals not being adhered to. It's up to a coach to instil them. What chance does an 18 year old have at our club? Our current crop of players can't think for themselves. The team has no confidence. Has no dash and daring. Has very little teamwork. We don't run to position. We don't kick to position We don't shepherd. We don't back each other up. We play from behind. We're constantly 2nd to the ball. Gut running isn't part of our game plan. Our disposal skills are woeful. We hang our heads too much. We don't use the corridor anywhere near enough. Our 2nd and 3rd efforts are generally poor We play an outdated game style. We don't talk out on the ground. Give and go handballing - rarely see it. The players don't care enough when we lose. Our players are lazy. We don't man up. We give up too easily. We don't chase or tackle with any intent. Our forwards get caught from behind too much. Our clearance work and system out of the middle is virtually non existent. We don't know how to win. We're generally soft and have been since the start of the 2008 season.

Not letting Cook or Barry Prendergast off the hook, but we develop our players poorly. We're the worst in the League at it 'Wyl' and I'm talking about the fundamentals of the game and other vital areas of a young players development. In previous years, it didn't look like a lot of our players had set foot in the gym. And our fitness levels have been appalling. All this coupled with the fundamentals of the sport being neglected, contributes to ruining a young blokes career (and I'm not specifically referring to Cook)

Blistering, you may have been referring to my post (#25) in the 'Does this bloke inspire you' thread. It was last Monday when I made the following points and I've no reason to change any of it. I've had a number of discussions with a few people about the 'move' and apart from the "That's the way they do things these day's" explanation, everyone saw it as a poor decision. You could maybe understand it if Clark was a midfielder.

Condolences P_Man, Cards, Chook and others. Heartfelt words and it must be a difficult time for those in similar circumstances. Thanks to all for sharing their memories and a great post, P_Man. Hope our team gets a win for you especially.

Maybe you're right, Chook. The 2nd half and/or the last quarter will tell a story. And did we expel much energy last Sunday?

We should be critiquing groups of players more often so as we can have a clearer picture on where the team sits going forward. I wasn't pointing the finger at you or any poster in particular re the scapegoating reference. Individual threads about certain players are always going to happen and maybe that can be fair enough. RR started a thread about 9 players and I'd like to see more of the same. Maybe those type of threads aren't as 'interesting' but they are probably a lot more beneficial in explaining the big picture. I just reckon we get sidetracked on the 'micro' sometimes when the emphasis should be on the 'macro'. There is no doubt in my mind that a number of our players have gotten off the hook and collectively, they need to be held accountable. I cannot imagine Barassi, Northey or Daniher putting up with these sub standard performances. They just wouldn't stand for it and more than a few of our 'so called' senior players would be kicking the dew off the grass in the magoo's (so to speak) However, a coach should only drop a player to improve him, not punish him.

Essendon are coming off a 2 week break and that is a huge advantage in today's footy. We need to put in a 4 quarter effort regardless and to be brutally honest, if we get within 3 or 4 goals, it might be a begrudging pass mark. Who wants to lose though? We throw the kitchen sink at them in the 1st quarter and you never know what might happen. All our players need to have a goal of beating their direct opponent with another goal of being the best player on the ground. If every player can take that attitude into the game then we can take it right up to them. How good do they want to be as individuals? Don't they want to be great?

So does that mean that anyone can go back and like all their own posts without anyone noticing? Hey, don't get any ideas you lot

It's gonna take a bit of work stuie, but if more and more references are made about our senior players then the penny will drop eventually. Who amongst the following players could we give more than a 5 out of 10 for last year (10 = Champion year, 9 = Elite year, 8 = Great Year, 7 = Very good year, 6 = good year, 5 = fair year and 4 or less = not up to standard. Frawley, Garland, Jones, Jamar, McKenzie, Sylvia, Trengove, Tapscott, Dunn, Watts, Howe. Of those 11 players I can only give Jones a mark higher than 5 for actual output. Injuries played a part but can't be used as an overall excuse. One good year from one player out of 11 blokes is diabolical. And they've started the year off in the same fashion. (save for Trengove who didn't play and Jones who played ok) We've got to stop pointing the finger at one bloke all the time. Scapegoating achieves nothing. It's a team game and all our senior players need to step it up. By the way, all 11 players were involved in the '186' game.

Yeah, good point HT (of what I can remember of it !) We'll take 2 spinners to England. The following quote is from an 'Age' article a couple of days ago. Bit of a misleading headline but interesting, nonetheless ... We'll cook the pitches: Skipper

I've no real issue with the heat on Watts but there should be an equal amount of heat on the senior players. Frawley, Garland, Howe, Jamar, Sylvia, Dunn and McKenzie continue to under perform when the going gets tough. And they continue to get off the hook. Collectively they don't put their hand up and show the way. Apart from the odd game, when do any of the aforementioned players play well, when the team gets well beaten? They go missing. These 8 players all played in '186' and they never seem to come under proper scrutiny. They don't do enough. They all have to be put on notice on Saturday night (by the match committee). Dunn is out injured.