Macca

Zac Purton 5 from 7 today up in HK (so far) And he's probably not done yet with a few at value to come. Superior horseman is understating things. The race caller just quipped that he'd probably win on a Merry-go-round right now!

Weekend Special MLB Monday 06.10am LA Dodgers vs San Diego Padres LA Dodgers Win (-1.5) $2.20 Following Purton at Honkers today and so far, so good! Demons win but 'We are Us' applies. We make hard work of it all fellas.

Well 'Enable' won as expected ... they run these outstanding horses quite scarcely over there so not sure when it runs again. Almost certainly set for the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe (for no.3?) in early October so there is probably a race for it in between. The replay of the Coral-Eclipse Stakes can be found on Tab.com.au or Racenet.com

It's more about the overall and the greater good ... the extra players won't add to the quality either. More so playing games from a squad perspective rather than a best 22 Gawn to play 18-19 games per year for instance. Regardless of how good his form is. Not written in stone but as a real option. It's hard for even the best players to be at their best every week in today's footy so spelling a player for a week every now and again is not such a radical move. So to do all that the clubs need bigger lists. In some other sports around the world players are given good amounts of rest ... baseball pitchers, soccer players, NBA players, running backs in the NFL etc etc. AFL players in the veteran stage (Jones) was where this conversation originated. Bigger lists allow clubs to keep the veterans around (in theory) I was thinking it was a total of 44 so thanks for the correction on that LH. So 52-53 is more the case then. All full list players with various contracts. Players are now required to run up to 15ks (or more) in an endurance/collision sport played on a weekly basis with loads more congestion these days. It's any wonder we see so many injuries.

Add 6 players and dispense with the whole rookies thing. Make them full list players. I year contracts as the clubs see fit too ... 2 year deals for the top 36 draft picks. After that, a player takes what he can get. So lists of about 50 is my call. We're looking at about an extra million per club per year but the whole process could be done incrementally. The clubs & the AFL could find a way. But we're dealing with an AFL that are poor custodians and they too often have got their eyes set on the $$$$'s.

I would have Jones over Garlett, Hannan or Spargo any day of the week. At least you know Jones is going to provide a contest and he can win his own ball. And he is a more reliable kick for goal. Not exactly a small forward per se but why do we have to follow convention?

Agreed ... the game is now so taxing on the body that I'm surprised that there hasn't been a call for bigger lists. The salaries would be spread furthet but once the transition is made, you don't have to do it again. The lists were much bigger back in the day probably for good reason. The past can teach us a lot sometimes DJ. And footy can learn from other sports. For instance, Soccer is a lot about squads rather than best 11.

If we go on current form Jones might have found a niche for himself at half back. But he could play forward as a tryout. Our forward line is full of non achievers and is largely dysfunctional so why not? As previously stated, I'd keep him on and if his form holds up he plays, if not, he plays 2nds. It's not like we have a long list of ready replacements. Our depth is deplorable.

We need all the experience we can get. Roos brought in experienced players because he could see the gaping chasm that the club had. Jones is a keeper for that reason. He plays if his form holds up and if not, he'll have to play in the 2nds. But that rule applies to all players. I have seen your views on Jones previously and we are poles apart on how we view the player. We can do a back and forth here but that will prove fruitless. Agreeing to disagree is the better way to end the conversation. But you are certainly entitled to your view. Taking a closer look at the list tells me that there are about 20+ players I'd let go before Jones. The talent levels fall away dramatically past the top dozen players or so. We need to turn the list over but as always, finding better replacements is a difficult assignment. There just isn't that many good players in the system or players coming into the system. The drafts tell us that. And there are a stack of C graders who end up being swapped around the clubs too ... because of the above reasons. I also think it's time to play the ageing veterans in a different way ... play them in selected games or blocks of games and then rest them up for the next lot of games that they might be required for. It happens in other sports (soccer especially) so why not in the AFL. List spots are often taken up by any number of NQR's anyway so why not? So I'm one for keeping the ageing talent around ... their experience is invaluable and they can be great for building a club's culture. My playing days taught me all that.

'Enable' is running in a Group 1 in the early hours of Sunday morning (Coral-Eclipse Stakes, Sandown UK) Only paying $2 but should win. One for your multi's almost as a banker if you're confident she'll win. I might try a few from Flemington and/or Randwick with 'Enable' in a few doubles. Just need to find a few winners in both Cities! Go to RacingPost.com for the form. Not much happening in Oz although I got a nice double today at Sandown (Forbid Me Not & Aristocratic Miss) Racenet.com tips this time although I've been keeping an eye on Justhorseracing.com bingers. Some real value in their tips too. This thread might start livening up in early to mid August so keep an eye out.

Barassi went hardest at his best players ... great coaches do that. The lesser lights can't do the exceptional or perhaps even the basics so why bother lambasting them? Pointless. Replace them yes, but until that happens you just have to put up with the mistakes. The best players on the other hand have no such luxury. Expectations are high and they just have to deliver. No excuses. That's why they get paid the big bucks. So the amount of time here spent evaluating players who really aren't up to it surprises me. They rarely ever get any better and the endless conversations about them seems futile to me. It's why I always concentrate on the amount of good players the club has ... not enough of them and you can't win games and in my time supporting the club we've never had enough of them (good players) So I feel for Frost yet I have noticed that there hasn't been much empathy shown towards him on this thread. Which is why I believe there is still some residual angst that lingers. He is not trusted but it's not his fault that his football talents are somewhat limited. He's not a top player and that's it. From my point of view Frost's output is easy to deal with. Most players tend to reach their ceiling by the age of 22-24 but often it's at an earlier age.

Well I was one of the few people here thinking that we could regress this season. And I made mention of that more than a few times in the pre-season (on this site) My view was probably seen as pessimistic but I class myself as a realist. So my expectations were tempered because my evaluation of the team going into this season was that we were slow, had godawful skills (at times) and that we might strike a few injuries. And the loss of Hogan was another big factor. The whole premiership window talk seems nonsensical to me. But I certainly did not believe we'd fall this far. But I still want the team to get to 8 wins (at least) It was 10 wins a few weeks ago but those thoughts are gone. We both see the same team and results Picket but my fix is different to yours. And there is no definitive right or wrong answer too. We just see things differently going forward. No big deal. With regards to Steven May, we have to wait and see. Quite literally. Right now, I don't really know what to expect. The bloke can obviously play and as always, I wish him all the best. It's all up to him. But he does not want to be in the news for the wrong reason (again) And I am certainly not wedded to writing the bloke off despite my misgivings. Far from it.

Midfield players like Oliver get scragged, held on to, blocked and tagged and he looks to me like he needs some relief from it all. So playing him forward with a license to go where he likes could free him up. Plus, he's a lovely kick for goal. Petracca is your prototype Paul Roos big-bodied midfielder who is not so easily blocked or held on to (or scragged) He too could relish the freedom of playing as a midfielder who can create an option or win his own ball. Or as a link-up player. The make-up of the structure of the team hasn't changed much all season. And it isn't working anyway. It is the ideal time now for Goodwin to show a bit of imagination with the game plan and our structure. As previously stated, we've got nothing to lose. If it doesn't happen, no sweat. It's just an idea.

Fitzroy had Murray, South had Skilton and Footscray had Whitten. The Bulldogs won a flag for Whitten in '54 but their team along with South, the Roys and our team at least had a great player who could mix it with the best. Flower would dominate in games where we got smashed by much superior opposition. And he did it consistently. The mark of a great player. But it is hard to replicate ... players are born with that never-say-die attitude and if they are highly skilled as well, you've got yourself a star. Fast forward to today and Gawn is our star along with Oliver if he can be freed up. I'd take Oliver out of the middle and played forward for the remainder of the season to free him up. Petracca into the middle and then see how they both go playing different roles. Let's face it, we've got nothing to lose and Oliver is not impacting games anyway. Brayshaw is another and he might shine more without Oliver by his side. Change things up I say. Rather than putting the cue in the rack we've got a great chance to start preparing our side (and game plan) for next season. And we can still win games in the process. Win/Win.

I just figured out who the new prominent poster is ... ha! An unmistakable style - should have picked it from the word go. And has 'Who' disappeared again. Gets outed then no more?

If we're not aggressive with regards to trading out a decent player or 2 (commodity) then 7 - 9 changes is my guess. If we do trade aggressively then the number of changes to the list might exceed 10. A lot will depend on how the club sees itself. As always, we are mere onlookers. Whatever we call all that doesn't really matter ... if we were a complete basket-case then a 'total rebuild' might be an apt phrase.

I agree but so often we see sides completely fall away from a 4 & 11 position. We need to do the opposite. It is all above the shoulders in the next 7 games ... we've got enough good players available to win games.

Sorry for editing your post in this way BM but this part of your post stood out to me. Even mug sportspeople can battle it out when it doesn't matter but the greats use it as practice. They never quit. Most others give up ... it's a mindset often confined to the elite but there is no reason why an average player can't have a never-say-die attitude. And that's what we lack (apart from a number of other weaknesses)

Wins do matter ... both to the playing group, coaches, admin & the board. And importantly, the supporters & members. Just imagine how we'd all view it if we finished at 4 & 18. Sponsors, prime-time games, membership, destination club, Goodwin and numerous other factors would be at stake I understand that you want to win as many games as possible t_u as I've read your posts on the subject so I'm not directing the above comments at you And given our history ... when we go down we stay down. For years. So make no mistake, we need to finish the season well but if we play like we did against the Lions, we'll be lucky to win another game. So it is all to play for as far as I'm concerned. Those eyeing off a top-end draft pick need to realise that there are many other factors at play. More important factors in my opinion.

But would you agree that we'll make 10 or so changes to the list? List the last 10-12 players on the list (in terms of value) and ask yourself whether you'd miss any of them if they were gone. I also reckon the club might trade out a valuable commodity or 2. Might. Sometimes you have to make changes and difficult decisions to get better. So if that happens the changes could be dubbed a rebuild of sorts. We need pace and an injection of skilled players - it is a glaring weakness. We quite obviously don't need a total rebuild like we did from '07 through to '15 but we're a long way off being a premiership contender. If it was me I wouldn't trade Petracca, Brayshaw or the like but it wouldn't surprise me greatly if tough decisions are made.

No ... you see it your way and I see it my way. I watch the game closely and there are numerous occasions where a player breaks team rules ... runs to the wrong spots, fails to lay a tackle, doesn't run back, jogging instead of sprinting, doesn't shepherd, unecessarily berating a teammate, not playing in front, going up for a spoil instead of staying down (although in the heat of the moment an 'error' of judgement can occur with regards to a spoil) etc etc etc As for the errors ... missed marks, poor decision making, errant kicks, poor conversion rates etc etc So I know the difference ... it seems that you don't. And I'm hoping that the news surrounding May in the future is all positive. Whether that happens or not is anyone's guess. So far we've seen him called out by the coach for rolling up in an unfit fashion to pre-season, get suspended, get called out by the leadership group for drinking whilst in rehab and now this. He's on big money and we gave up a top-end draft pick for him so a lot is expected. So far, I'm underwhelmed with his output. And if you're happy with all that, fine.

And I don't have an agenda with May either although I do believe he has now brought unnecessary attention onto himself. Both Leigh Matthews & Jono Brown mentioned that the berating went on for far too long so it's not just a few supporters here. I actually stuck up for May against many here over that whole 'drinking session' story. I thought he was being unfairly treated in that instance (more so the perception) although the leadership group did call him out over the incident. Still don't believe it was a 'session' though. Just a couple of beers is what I gleaned from it all. Harmless.

I just don't like seeing players being berated by their teammates. It's counter-productive in my opinion. If you don't have a problem with what May did that's fine. With these sorts of debates on these sorts of issues many have a strong, firm view (either way)

No I just want him to behave himself. There's a difference.

How about you give it a rest ... you take repeating yourself to new heights. And hypocrisy and misery. Even when we win you can often only find fault.