Hannabal

I loved Trengove and Morabito when I first saw both at the Dome, even though Trengove was relatively quiet. One could just see the class. Unless you were thick, or just watching on TV. I no longer belong to a particular forum dominated by groupthink due to a [censored] that thinks his doesn't stink when in fact it does. Badly. This [censored] didn't rate Trengove. LOL. Trengove has done enough now to warrant either selection 1 or 2. Thanks for the updates.

Unlike Freak, I actually quite liked the look of Carlisle, but am uncertain if he warrants a pick 11 at this stage of his development. It might be a slight gamble. But that's what the best recruiters are paid to get right.

I actually tend to agree with you - assuming Butcher doesn't slide that far.

I can't comment unless you name names.

Because media careers aren't included in the criteria which award Legend status. I loved watching Richards as a Kid on Sunday's World of Sport on channel 7, but he should not be a Legend in the AFL's Hall of Fame unless they change the criteria. His playing career doesn't warrant Legend status. He's a worthy Hall of Famer. Leave it there.

I don't know enough about him, but from my limited viewing the query would be over his athleticism at AFL level. He's got legs like tree trunks on him already, but won't have the same strength advantage that he in the TAC. Carlisle was very quiet in the GF, but he has the pace, height and athleticism that's required at AFL level. I'm not saying that Temel won't be a quality AFL player, but there's more uncertainty about him and he'll be more limited in the role he can play. I'd be very surprised if he was picked in the top 20.

11 is too early for Vardy and Temel, imo.

2008 Steele Sidebottom 2007 Patrick Veszpremi 2006 Andrejs Everitt 2005 Shaun Higgins 2004 Adam Thomson 2003 Beau Waters 2002 Jason Winderlich 2001 Richard Cole 2000 Trent Sporn 1999 Darren Glass 1998 Lenny Hayes I'm feeling benevolent, so I'll humour you. It's unfair to judge the last 3 draft years as there's just not enough weight of evidence yet as to how their career will unfold. And I'll not go back too far as recruiting has become much more of an exact science than the early years. I'll go back to 98, which leaves a pool of Higgins through to Hayes - 8 players. I rate Higgins, Winderlich, Glass and Hayes as better pick 11's. I rate Beau Waters really highly, but his injuries have cruelled him. Also, due to pace issues, previous injuries and 'build type', I reckon McLean has about 5 more years of solid AFL footy. I don't see a 30 year old McLean ripping it up. So any wise pick 11 from 09 should have double the length of tenure. But once again, trying to rate McLean against a static pick is madness. We have access to all players from pick 10 to choose. A far more effective way of evaluating the choices available at pick 11 would be to include the top 20 picks from any given year, as they're the likely pool that a choice of pick 11 is going to come from. Are you still with me ? It goes without saying that most of the draft pool from pick 10 onwards won't seriously be considered for pick 11, but any recruiter is going to have a list of 5-10 players that they expect to be available at any given pick. So you'd be better served listing all the picks from 11-15 or 11-20 to guage what success has been achieved within those parameters. Also, if another club has previously stuffed up pick 11 is it fair to pillory a MFC trade in 2009 ? It's a fairly unconvincing and myopic arbitrary measure. A tenuous argument at best. Lastly, and I said this on the main forum, coaches very rarely lose players they want to keep. It may happen occasionally, or due to the 'go home' factor, but it's very rare. If Bailey really wanted McLean as part of our future he'd be playing next year. When was the last time anyone was in awe or amazed by a creative and lightening handball dished out by McLean to an outside player running at pace ? If you come up with more than one I'll be gobsmacked. It's a very, very good move by the MFC, imo. PS: if you think that McLean is better than Winderlich, as I expect some will, then you didn't watch enough footy in 2009. Winderlich regularly hurt the opposition with his pace, goal kicking and ball use. Now a question for you ? Do you think that McLean was an A grade midfielder ?

He just reflects society. IQ levels vary considerably.

You severely overrate McLean as a footballer.

I'm not saying that it never happens and usually it's the go home factor when it does, but coaches very rarely lose players they want to keep.

As others have mentioned, judge the entire pool from every draft from pick 11 onwards. We get the first choice of every player that's available after pick 10. We have to be good enough to make the pick count. There will be some very good players chosen post 11, ergo, we have the chance to get it right. I'd rather that chance than to hold on to a very well paid player that is serviceable at best. You, of course, can please yourself. That said, you better start getting used to it.

There are a few misconceptions about McLean, imo. He's just as 'outside' as he is 'inside' except he's not elite at either. He's not a 'first dibs' Scotty West, Joel Selwood, or Simon Black type that feeds it out; and he's often too slow to do much damage on the 'outside'. As Wisbey would say, he's 'predatory' by nature. Brock is a solid meat and potatoes 200 gamer, but he's not an A grader. His "toughness" is also greatly exaggerated. I always thought he'd be as tough as old hobnail boots, but it never eventuated. He 'goes' when he has to, but he's not tough, or intimidating, even though he looks like he should be. Some people think he's our best clearance player. I disagree, in fact, we don't have a good clearance player, but Jones is the best. And when McLean does get first disposal how often is it clean ? He usually just does a quick blaze away gaining some metreage for advantage. He doesn't have good hands in close. (Scully is a clearance star.) I accept that injuries have restricted him and that he'll play good footy for Carlton. I'm now far more interested in what might fall our way at 11. I don't know how many, but there will be some very good players picked after 11 in this draft. Obviously we need to back BP to draft well.

Why not ? We'd like to make a prelim in 3/4 years time to help ensure a flag in 4+ years. Why wouldn't you want 80 games out of a Burgoyne or Lake ? Especially when you get them for nothing in the PSD.

I said at the beginning of this year that we were 5-7 years away from a flag. As of preseason next year it will be 4-6 years. This mirrors the view of the MFC, which pleases me. They know exactly where we're at even if some supporters don't. This will ensure that the club makes the right decisions about the playing list. The club saying 4-6 years doesn't mean that they think that we won't be playing Finals well before then, just unlikely to win the only thing that matters - a flag. Fwiw - 2010 7-9 wins 2011 - 10-12 wins 2012 - Finals 2013 + Finals and premiership mode i.e. "4-6" Also, I reckon McLean rightly read the writing on the wall. The club asked him to take a paycut. He sees that it's likely we'll get two gun mids with pick 1 and 2. He's no longer a genuine chance to captain the club. He decides on a fresh start. Happy times.

I disagree. The game is evolving all the time. Luke Ball is a better player than McLean and he's on the fringe of the Saints side. Don't we aspire to be a premiership team ? McLean is very much border line for me already. This will be exacerbated with an influx of midfield talent. There are no guarantees with pick 11, but on the surface I'm pleased with the deal. If someone had said to me a week ago "is Brock worth a top 12 pick", my answer would have been 'doubtful'.

Isn't it strange. I'm the complete opposite.

I think he means that we don't yet know what we'll get from pick 11, whether that be on-trading or draft.

I'm pouring the bath and have assembled the razor blades.

What's funny is that many Carlton supporters on fan forums are [censored] off for giving up pick 11 and Dees supporters are [censored] off for only getting pick 11. We'll have to judge this in 5 years time.

Mate, they're cattle to me unless they're a star. And don't believe everything you hear just because he got one right.

Other than the connection with his fellow indigenous players I've got no problem with Davey leaving if there's adequate compensation. Davey raised his level this year, but I've never seen him perform in a big game and have never been his biggest fan. Would prefer to keep though. Mind you, it won't be easy for him to get to Essendon. The bad press would be the biggest issue in my mind. Also, because your source had one piece of accurate information doesn't mean I'll get carried away by all your assertions. Someone with an axe to grind may have been on the money once, which for the gullible suddenly gives all of their views credibility. And this is often what the informant seeks. For all I know it's you who have an axe to grind. I'll not be too worried about Davey leaving.

When a star leaves drop me a line. If they're not a star and we're well compensated I couldn't give a toss.

Fark there's a lot of panic merchants on here. What an embarrassing lot.

I'm happy. As posted earlier I couldn't see McLean in my 2012 team. Three picks in the top 11 unless they on trade it. Once there's a name to pick 11 supporters we'll be in a better position to evaluate. Thumbs up.