Demon Dynasty

Technically I believe that is a throw. But.... the game has evolved for better or worse to allow disposal like this to occur. Just look at all the overhead handballs now allowed and shovel motion throws that players do when tackled.

Modern tacking and pressure has pretty much mandated that dropping and throwing of the ball is ok. In fact more Melbourne players need to learn how to pick it up and move it on in this manner.

Master this is spot on.

Melbourne are WAY behind on this part of the game as i've been harping on for nearly a year now.

A BIG part of the way top players train (and others around them within most of the present day top teams ie., copy cat, do as i do) involves this half flick/toss/scoop/shuffle throw.

The idea is to clear congested areas and opponents with a much faster disposal by hand versus a technically correct handball (in the traditional sense ie., by AFL law) in order to gain that first posession or multiple quick possessions to someone spreading latteral, forward or even behind the contest and escape that contest or opponent. But usually it's to someone very close and latteral to or behind the disposing player as often a traditional handball is the best option when moving the ball some distance away, forward ot the player's general motion.

No, It's not used every single time a handball is on, but under the pump/in congestion (especially in close) it is being used quite widely and consistently and has been for the past 3 to 4 years now in a professional sense. And no doubt much longer in an accidental/unconscious sense by a few individual players prior to it catching on.

The half flick/shuffle throw, demonstrated by Stratton in this passage of play, is technically illegal under strict interpretation of the hand ball law under AFL rules. It constitutes a shuffle throw and incorrect disposal in that Stratton moves/pushes (technically throws the ball) with the hand that's holding the ball (his left hand) just before making a "motion" to hit the ball with his right clenched fist. The ball is guided/pushed/shuffled in the direction of Buddy (ie., to the side of and behind Stratton's body) and only after this movement has commenced from the left hand, does Stratton just manage to connect with the fist putting a little extra air on the ball. So there is a connection with the fist but only AFTER Stratton has managed to push/shuffle in a throwing motion with the left hand in the general direction of the oncoming Buddy. I'm sure if the umpire could see this in slow motion under video review, or he was positioned under Stratton and whoever the Pie player was tackling him (laying prostrate on the ground lol) and had a perfect view, he SHOULD deem it a throw and penalise Stratton. However this is live/fast motion. There's virtualy no way an umpire would be able to call this in a live play situation. Hawthorn knows this, as do many other top teams and they've perfected this and a number of other scoops/shuffle methods so well now that the umpires can't see or call many of them. Especially in congestion with many bodies obscuring clear viewing.

This is exactly what Melbourne (and some of the lessor) teams MUST learn to do effectively if we're to have any chance of moving the ball/spreading/clearing congestion quickly away from our opponents as well as move the ball quickly i50 for our talls if we're to have any chance of competing against the top clubs.

We are already way behind in this and this is a significant part of why we are unable to spread and move the ball away from stoppages and our opponents quickly, like they do to us week after week. Part of it is talent yes, part of it is fitness yes, and part of it is drilling practice during training. But a large part is drilling practise using these flick/scoop/shuffle methods.

If we don't start doing it you can forget about ever moving the ball away from the stoppages as quickly and as effectively....and (at the very least) as often....as many of our opponents are presently doing to us. At least those clubs that have mastered it (including many within their respective playing groups). The clubs that have so far gone a fair way to perfecting it include Collingwood, Geelong, Essendon, Hawthorn and West Coast. Sydney i haven't looked at enough to focus on this appect of their skills but more than likely they've probably caught up somewhat as well.

Neeld and the boys better get moving with the times or we'll never catch them!

I heard from a reliable source who was there and this is apparently how it went down guys....

Frawley was boasting big time that he had a beard and Col didn't ...this was in front of a few lasses they were chatting to at the time. Sylvia responded "you can keep your beard Chip.....nobody can match my smooth looks on the field or the dance floor mate!!". Chip then stated that he could take anyone on the dance floor anytime including Col "smooth as" Sylvia!! Some bloke called 'Rick' happened to be near them and overheard Chip boasting and challenged Chip to a dance off!

Chip foolishly accepted, Col tried to stop Chip from embarrassing himself and this is where a little push and shove occured between the two of them but nothing too serious.

This was caught by a patron on a smart phone and posted on you tube this morning! Check it out guys!!! ........

Oh.....one other massive positive.....Nic Nat didn't play! Phew

We lack midfield depth and with when not punching/tapping (i.e. when kicking or handballing) we have periods of being absolutely thrashed out of the middle.

This then leads to Clark having to go back to stem the flow, we lose all forward line structure...

If we can get Gawn in the ruck and Dawes to come we would be able to clear more ball and keep a Clark and Dawes forward structure together for longer periods... this will improve us rapidly.

Good points. Still lack any dangerous goal kicking smalls forward of centre around drop of ball too. The opposition clears the ball too easy from the drop of the contests up forward. Having an under manned mid allows too many easy transistions out of our forward line. Not only too many easy transistions, our inability to put intense defensive pressure on through the middle & out wide means the ball is coming into our defensive 50 far too often & too quickly to get extra numbers back = heapz of marking/scoring opportunities for our opponents.

As much as I'm looking forward to Dawes coming in, we are still seriously deficient in the quality small man dept and have been for decades (with the exception of The Wiz) and the mid field stocks are ugly as hell

Not really anything new I realise.

Trying to be positive Terlich had another solid game. Evans, M Jones, Howe, Tappy & McDonald had a reasonable dip. Sylvia actually fired for a change. Clark was solid. Jones boy in and at it always giving his all. Grimes ok in the first half. Trengove showed something in patches but fairly dodgy under pressure. Much better game than last weeks effort though.

At least they fired a little for the first half. Beats one quarter or so against Port and about half a quarter against the bummers. At this rate we might win a match in approx 5 weeks or so!

We NEED MAGNER - just put anyone on the LTI list. I know he is not the classiest player but he will put in 100% no matter what the score.

Right through the Nab cup and Casey games he has been a standout. He knows how to find the footy (shown by his 30+ touches in the last 2 casey games) and he will put his body on the line.

It all starts with the center bounce!

It does. Jamar.....Gawn. For Lucifers sake, get him in. & somehow get Magner & Couch off the rookie list & into the squad. While Rodan isnt gonna be a game breaker either...he must be given 3 to 4 chances in the seniors. Has to be better value than Seller, Garland, Frawley, Toumpas et al. & not having a go at Toumpas. Shouldn't have been selected over Rodan in the first place

Far from ready. Another poor decision by coach and selection committee. Rodan (premiership player with an AFL bod & massive experience) versus an underdone inexperienced Toumpas? Nah, lets choose Toumpas haha. Wouldnt have made that much of a difference to the result but even a few extra possessions going our way and maybe a goal here or there helps.

Probably too early for Kent as well but i'd choose him over Toumpas at this point if there weren't many experienced alternatives on the selection table (& unfortunately there isn't). Sure know how to ruin a young blokes confidence at this club. Well done Neeld & crew.

Ww and wizz I just wanted to congratulate you both (& anyone else who helped get this rolling). I've been past Goshes a number of times in the past 3 months filling in for some drivers of ours on the 605. I used to honk on way past the boys when training as I felt they needed every little encouragement possible seeing as there was hardly anyone watching. Seriously I could count on 1 or 2 hands the numbers other than officials.

Then yesterday I drove down around punt. Turned into Swan. No one training in the usual front paddock there. I figured must be a change up to usual routine due to Sorrento. Ok fair enough. Then I get to Olympic park. I was in shock. Thousands of Pie supporters watching them train and egging their boys on. Suffice to say I was hit by another wave of depression. As if witnessing the last 2 weeks wasn't enough.

To drive up Punt today and look across and see a fair turn out in the red & blue. What a great sight. This would have to give the players some sort of lift & reason for being surely?

I'm even thinking of taking a sicky or RDO next week or whenever the next designated day is to get there.

We even got coverage on SEN which is the most positive marketing this clubs had probably all season.

Well done guys and to all who got down there.

You just may have started something special.

Carn the Demons!

Slowest players going around...

There's no room on the list for 3 slowies.....Jordy Mac, Couch and Magner.

Don't need to be quick to get posessions through the mid and use it decently. Ask Sam Mitchell, Lingy, Kelly, Chappy etc. Just need the work ethic and football smarts....and an AFL sized bod. Simple fact is we don't have enough mids of AFL size/quality in the 22 we put on the park each week so far this season. That's why we've been smashed and will continue to get smashed by almost every side in the AFL that does this year and beyond until we do. The better teams have 6 to 8 players (and some have about 10!) they can rotate through the mid who are fairly solid/decent quality. And the top teams each have at least 1 A grader or more. We'd be lucky if we had 1 solid (Jones) to rotate through and 2 fill ins (Grimes/McKenzie) who can hold their own (to a point). We might have approx 3 others as fillers but just aren't up to it.

So we manage for approx a quarter (barely) and afterwards the oppositions quality/rotations get us. Pfffft.....game over. Easy picking and they run off our men knowing they have us well and truly covered (out classed) through the mid field. Having such a poor skill set (Coach & FD...WTF??) in the rest of the team doesn't help either. Other Coaches/teams know this of course. Know we'll turn the ball over with even a mediocre degree of pressure placed on us, so most of their players just run forward in waves or latterell to the contest, waiting for the easy receive out in space whenever there's a contested ball. They're usually rewarded by either their players quality of ball use or our turnovers. Massive confidence boost for them. Ugly for us. Pitty our defence. No wonder they're confidence and mental state is shot.

Having Jamar contesting the stoppages and centre bounce doesn't help either of course. Not the Russian's fault. A great bloke and i'm sure he gives his all, but the game appears to have passed him by after that unfortunate injury.

There's only one person that i believe can truly unite this club and make it a powerhouse of the AFL (given a reasonable time frame of say 5 to 10 years).....

poll anyone??

What i would like to have seen....

(OUT) Jamar, Sylvia, Toumpas, Blease, Gillies, Watts, Seller & Trengove

(IN) Gawn, Jetta, Evans, Bail, Couch*, Magner*, Tappy, Kent (Sub)

I realise * = rookie listed but what a massive error placing these 2 on the rookie list. Reminds me of the 2 Jack Captains blunder. Mid field screaming for some kind of support and the only 2 reasonable ball getters at Casey can't be called up. Seeing as we can't and he kicked 6 then Tappy's an auto call up obviously. Trengove was recalled at least 2 to 3 games too soon IMO so only placing him in as an (Out) as i believe he should never have been called up last week. Tappy should have retained his spot and given time to settle/redeem from previous week's poor effort. Chopping and changing 2nd or 3rd season young blokes every other week is the worst thing for their confidence i reckon.

And lets leave Sylvia in (again and again and again) after yet another sub par performance. Yet Rodan, who had about 1/3rd as much game time gets 1 less possession, but we'll drop him straight away, best he doesn't get a chance to settle and find some form! Send him back to the Magoos and lets bring in a less experienced player with a smaller mid field AFL bod so he can get taught a lesson by Priddis, Kerr, Selwood & Co

And Jamar stays in after getting smashed last week? Can't leap, can't mark. Shocking disposal even for a ruckman. But lets leave Gawn in the Magoos who is at this point our most 'likely' ruck prospect for this season and beyond until/unless we trade in someone decent. Height will at least help him compete in the centre bounce under the new ruck rule and couldn't be a worse liability around the ground vs Jamar. More than likely isn't AFL match fit at this point but i'd take even half a game of competitiveness versus a whole game of virtually zilch including dropped marks, panick handballs etc.

Comedy selection capers at the MFC.....yet again

Cam Pedersen: Cam was required to play in defence, as Troy Davis withdrew from the game with illness. In a much improved performance, Cam finished with 21 disposals and took 11 marks, which included a couple going back with the flight. Cam will take plenty of confidence from this game.

He would want to. I think another 3 to 6 games with Casey would have sent a better message and also provided him some good game time in defence learning his craft. More than likely he'll only end up being dropped again after this week knowing the way our revolving door ins & outs record has worked in the past. That will do a world of good to his confidence! As Frankie-D says.... Honor before Honers.

What about the Queens Birthday clash a few years ago, I think it was Jack Watts first game. We got flogged and Sylvia got 30+ quality possies. Not standing up for him in general but you can't put him in the same boat as Moloney re disappearing when we need him most.

Sometimes dee-luded, I'm not sure you believe what you are saying.

Martin Pike had to be moved on, no matter how good a player he was. I have heard a pretty damning story about what caused his departure from the club that I will not repeat here but the man himself, an

Cheers fellas. Got the picture. Although i'd still like to see some hard evidence. Only due to the fairy tale finish lol

Rusty, from the stories I have heard it was never an option for him to stay at the Dee's after one incident. Good player but as you point out he was pretty wild in his early days and continued to be wild really until he got outta the AFL fishbowl and up to Brisbane.

- from link provided. J.Niall article.

Good god........battle stations. Hold on people.

I hope that's a mis quote. If it isn't then the Ox better better be ready to take over the reigns from DM. Otherwise it would be best for him to just butt out IMO. Another G Lyon hit and run job!!?? The last thing this flailing club needs atm is a part time ring in advisor who wont be there to be held accountable after any recommendations he makes are (potentially) acted on.

Can people just forget about Gary Lyon - its doing my head in. He's not interested and the help he's given us already has resulted in 1 failed coaching experiment and another that looks destined for the toilet. The more we ask people for help that don't have the time or simply do not want to help the more desperate and silly we look. We need people who have the time to devote to the club and will do a great job, not just an ex player for name sake!

Garry who??

Here's the audio of him speaking on SEN today. Make of it what you will.

Wouldn't mind Turfy down there either!

http://www.sen.com.au/audioplayer/Audio/David-Schwarz-on-meeting-with-Don-McLardy/7588

Ox isn't going to shake anyone up. He's merely there to offer some assistance.

And if you ever see Turfy there we're in even bigger trouble! As much as it's nice to have 2 Demon boys on SEN, Turfy's said on many occasions he would never consider playing a role at the club and doesn't hold any sway down there. And personally i wouldn't like to see him within a bull's roar of the place, not in any official role anyway....but that's just me. Some grudges just don't get any more mellow, no matter how much water passes

Sometimes dee-luded, I'm not sure you believe what you are saying.

Martin Pike had to be moved on, no matter how good a player he was. I have heard a pretty damning story about what caused his departure from the club that I will not repeat here but the man himself, an older and wiser version it would seem, said on Open Mike that there were ongoing issues with his time at Melbourne. He didn't pretend he was hardly treated by.

Jeff Farmer left of his own accord because he wanted to go back to Perth.

Ox was frowned upon, and the man himself will admit it, because he was leading some of the younger lads down a dark path. It's awesome to see he has turned his life around now but if we are talking about his time at the club and not now, then there was a good reason why. I would suggest you look up Daniel Ward to see what I meant (though Ox assisted Wardy after the financial hit was taken).

Jaka could have been anything. If he had the training ethic of others, he would have been an all time club great. However, it wasn't in his nature to harness himself. Proof of that was shown in that he went to the Dogs, remained out of shape, played 9 games and then retired.

It would want to have been VERY damning given that he he was starring for us towards the end of 94 (including solid finals appearances) and went on to be a 4 x premiership player. He was a pretty wild fella in his early days, even according to his own accounts, but it would seem Norf and the Lions had no trouble getting the max out of him afterwards.

We need to get Don out.

360 is spot on, Don drowned in that press conference, Schwab handled himself like a professional, Don less than an amateur.

CS was all class on the way out. I think he (Don & the Board) knew the end had finally arrived, with his fate sealed by that disgraceful effort on Saturday evening on the field and the pitiful performance the week prior. The cries from supporters finally shook the hallowed halls of the Green room with echoes of "186 !" reverberating through the board room (and no doubt a few calls from sponsors!)....ITS TIME!! TIME TO MOVE FORWARD AND SHAKE THAT UGLY BAGGAGE LOOSE MATE!

This might be the first time i've ever seen the MFC executive actually sit up and take serious notice of what many of its members were screaming for! And part of that message, as Don reiterated many times over during the presser, is ...... to start bloody winning games of footy...BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR!

What CS's removal does is.....it puts everyone on notice, EVERYONE. From the executive down to the coach, every single player, right through to the trainer. "Hey, we love you guys and we'll give you all the support and every resource we can possibly muster, but if you f*@k up enough from here......well..."

Don isn't Eddie, nor is he a Smorgan (thank Lucifer's trident), but for the first time i really thought he took the bat to the press vultures and was standing up for this club. That's quite amazing given the crap i've seen served up by some of our recent presidents.

I don't believe the AFL had the ultimate say here. Sure, no doubt Vlad would have voiced his concerns to DM, but it was the overwhelming and consistent attack from many of the members, most likely the sponsors and to a lessor degree the AFL that would have forced DM and the Board's hand in asking for CS's resignation.

I'd be happy to see DM stay on in his existing role at least until we find an alternative candidate. But the alternative needs to be a big player and a massive Demon man who'll carry significant weight in football circles and is willing to get out there and spruik like crazy. And part of that would be to regain the confidence of recent disenfranchised/lost supporters and potential new ones. Robbie Flower would be an amazing appointment for this club as President IMO, but unfortunately i know he won't commit.

And in many ways this is where our old club has problems being seen as standing for anything. Most of our past greats prefer to stay out and watch from the sidelines, happy to provide the occasional morsel of advice, but unwilling to commit and do the hard yards and actually represent. There's power in numbers in a club as well as greater transparency, especially when you have great people on board demanding the very best of each other.

It's this aspect of the make up of the board that concerns me the greatest regarding our future from here. I realise we don't have many "living/able" past greats. But the ones that are able and still exist have truly deserted us in our greatest hour of need. Just as they did during some of the ugliest times i've seen at this club (1996).

In the end we're going to have to back someone. At this point it has to be Don, The Board, Mark, Craig and most of the FD from here (i'm excluding CC and Royal in that group as i believe they both need to move on).

Don finally appears to have been woken from his recent apparent apathy with recent goings on. He's woken from his slumber at last (i hope) and decided he's going to fight tooth and nail for the club from here and has stated clearly what we're all about. However, this should have been the message/culture from day 1 when he inherited the role as president. To do so now feels somewhat hollow, but as the old saying goes, better late than never.

Lets hope Mark and the boys finally got the same wake up call!

Carn the Demons!!

Why are most players unable to lead up and hit up targets on a regular basis and why are our disposal skills, both by hand and foot, some of the worst i've ever witnessed by any team after 2 pre seasons?

Why do we allow outside players to have so much space at the stoppage and run/spread, seemingly at will, from the stoppage?

Why is there seemingly no effective forward press after 2 pre seasons?

Why do we use what appears to be a "rigid" zone press at the oppositions kick outs when the AFL coaching standard is more commonly a "rolling" press pushing to the direction of the kick out and closing down space?

Why was Heppell (among a few others but mainly Heppell) alllowed to run riot during the first half on Saturday night and at no stage did it appear we tried to put a lock down on him?

Why was Gillies allowed to remain at full back on multiple opponents for 3 quarters (approx) and till the game was well and truly gone when it was clear he was being smashed at pretty much every contest?

Why didn't you say no to the camera fiasco and save our boys and the club the embarrassment of the 'behind the scenes' TV intrusion?

Who was the idiot that came up with that idea?

Is he still at the club?

Here's a idea....Pick a man....man on man footy

HELL YES!!!! If only this would happen. Hec we might even see a contest for 3 or 4 quarters!

I'm fine with the beards and would happily grow one if my boss wasn't going to shoot my ass. However, where i draw the line is the contest to grow the longest.

As the Ox said (i think) on SEN today ....if they're going to play games make it footy related....eg., they should start up a competition to see who can get the most bloody tackles, kicks and marks!

RR, when an addict seeks a cure he does so in the hope that the person he has gone to will help. The media will not help. It will hinder, and several will relish the opportunity to do so.

It's about standing up to them. We hate Eddie Everywhere but I'll tell you what, he defends his club to almost ridiculous levels.

Does he what. I only wish the MFC had someone at the top who stood up for us and went on the front foot as much as Eddie does. I realise he's a media magnet and knows how to play it, seeing as that's where he came from, but our profile/culture and a passionate/charismatic person at the helm to defend us to the hilt and push that message (Visibly on TV) is sadly missing.

Even when the club is at its lowest ebb, the best McLardy and Schwab can do (so far) is to send us a written message and do a few brief radio snapshots.

Yet another reason (of many) that they both need to be replaced in good time.

We need people with a passionate football background and some charisma at the helm who have some understanding of player issues, the value of senior players and who can relate to the members. Not more white collar lawyers, accountants and corporate bean counters.

If the media actually checked their facts and were even handed in their criticism, then that would be ok, but some of the lies and misinformation are unforgivable.

We were singled out as the only tankers in the history of the game when every journo out there knows many other clubs did it as well. They treated us like garbage and that is unforgivable. Look how easy they are going on Essendon, how much did Collingwood, Carlton, Richmond, Hawthorn cop, zero. They picked on the weak animal trailing the back of the pack and savaged us.

That is [censored] poor and that really sums up the level of journalism in this Country.

So true. But that's where Old Dee is correct, we've effectively made a rod for our own backs and opened ourselves up to being a very easy target by failing in so many aspects of the game as a club. So many opportunities lost over so many decades. Never able (or is it willingness/competancy?) to go the extra mile and take the necessary steps to the ultimate pinnacle of success.

Garry was involved in the committee that chose Bailey over Sheedy when the rot started under Paul Gardner (and not for the first time) in 2007. Passing up a legend with 4 premierships under his belt and massive AFL marketing weight/drawing power for this wallowing club? That says it all for me. Personally i'm not a huge Sheedy fan in terms of the way he handles things, but i'm pretty sure he wouldn't have brought us to the train wreck we're seeing (on the field) now and i'm pretty sure he would have told old Cam to stick his bloody nose out of FD business when he felt it wasn't warranted and was potentially effecting the running of the FD and the playing group itself. I'm also pretty sure 186 would never have taken place either.

A once in a lifetime opportunity and they blew it. Only a fool (along with the bunch of other fools on the committee) would have done this. I loved Garry on the field and was there for most of his matches cheering him on like many here i'm sure, but off it he should keep his nose out of any executive decisions from here unless he's willing to put his balls on the line and actually take up an official role. Then he can do whatever he pleases as far as i'm concerned. IMO he's responsible in a significant way for our present position. When we (me and family members) hear him getting stuck into us i seriously want to whack him over the bonce!!

An excerpt from an Age article from November last year about the committee's interview process with Sheedy in 2007 is quite ominous....

''It was all about 'How will you coach the team?' Well, I mean I know how to coach the team, I've got no problem with that,'' he said.

''But it's about how the club sees itself. To me … I have no problem with Dean Bailey and young [Mark] Neeld [who succeeded Bailey] as coaches, but you needed to take over the club and really get it right up there with marketing, members, sponsors, the whole lot.

''You needed to be in a position to take over Melbourne, like Sir Alex Ferguson [did at Manchester United], to really shake it and rattle it.''

There aren't 60,000 members, but are we sure there aren't 60,000 supporters in the area?? I live in Brisbane but would be there in an instant and would be there every week with my family of five were it possible...

Besides, it's better to shoot for the stars and miss than aim for the gutter and hit.

Heyy the boys of aimed for the gutter 2 weeks in a row now and hit it admirably. They don't seem to mind! Maybe they prefer the gutter