Demon Dynasty

What a farce this site is becoming. Full of whingers and negativity. Can't even have a thread to simply support a struggling player without it turning into the usual rubbish from the usual people. Try and remember the reason you originally came on here, because you love the dees.

Pathetic effort.

there there Stuie... is that better?

IF the club had your mindset they would be broke you just dont walk away when your on 35 grand a game, if he cant do his rehab and give the fans and the club some bang for there buck its time to retire the supporters have had an absolute gut full of it.

If it is a "personal issue" ie., relationship matters, then sure, give Mitch a few weeks off to sort it but after that he is contracted and getting paid handsomely to boot (pardon the pun). After that IMO he has to start performing or ship out.

However, if it's a rehab issue that's obviously what the experts at the club are paid to manage and make calls on. I would rather they give him every chance to recoup than allow him to hang up his boots without giving it the best shot possible.

Many MFC supporters, myself and OD included have stuck through far worse than the loss of a player. It is, above all, a team game

It is but you still need class and grunt throughout most lines in any team at this level. Losing our only potent forward (outside of Howe's part time worthy efforts) in the last few years (when he was on and fit) is a massive loss to a lowly team. In a middle rung or top team this position is more easily covered over by a senior group of core players, some of them proven A graders who can lead and lift the team and contribute to the scoreboard when needed. I haven't seen a Melbourne "team" anywhere near that mental and physical capability since 2006.

Another example is Carlton and Judd. You take Judd out of an average team like the Blues and they struggle big time to cover his class/engine/finish both around the ground and particularly through the middle. I'm not saying Mitch is a Judd, but he was a potent option when we managed to get him on the park and his absence is a massive blow in the short to medium term for "this" team. We better pray that Dawes gets fully match fit soon and he has a stellar year up forward. Howe and Hulk (assuming he recovers nicely soon) will both benefit from Dawes's prescence and "effort" examples when he's on the park.

The Dream Is Over.

What dream was that?

It's a good point you make.

We actually have a pretty shallow injury list. It just happens to contain our 3 valuable tall forwards.

I won't factor Clark any more and look forward to Dawes and Hogan, who along with Howe, JKH, Kent and perhaps Fitzpatrick can still provide a potent forward-line.

Potent? All i'm hoping for is to see those two running around "together" for most games later in the year. If that happens we might at least be competitive with teams from around 9th to 18th at some stage.

Anything more than that would be a bonus. Had we been able to field a fit Clark, Dawes and Hogan from the get go we might have been a potent opponent.

On a lighter side note.... The D'land banner is looking decidedly dodgy as each day passes. Is it cursed lol?

From left to right...

> Frawley - Speculation that he may well move on at year's end (pic fading a little?).

> Clark - Unlikely to pull on a Demon jumper again (pic fading big time)

> Viney - Injury prone debut last year although seems to be progressing through pre season ok so far. But surely too early to be a banner boy at this point (see Trengove)?

> Grimes - Major injury setback half way through 2013. Good comeback so far in 2014. Has earned his place on banner.

> Roos - Fingers crossed for an additional year's contract (at least) This might also secure Frawley on a short term deal as well. Obviously needs to be front and square on the banner.

> Jones - The one shining constant on the field and a seriously worthy banner boy.

> Trengove - Finally some common sense allowing him to just learn develop and play. Has he earned a banner guernsey at this point? IMO definitely not.

> Garland - Significant ankle issue over summer but appears to be progressing well. Should make an appearance in the near term. Looks like a safe and reasonably worthy banner boy at this point...touch wood.

> McKenzie - The epitome of "battler" and "tryer". Not sure he's worthy of a banner posting at this point though.

Howe is about the only worthy "additional" inclusion from other possibles.

Looked more like he was just nervous to me. First interview on TV, don't blame him.

Don't let the negatives cloud your judgement

Yes that's also a possibility that i was hoping was the case Demon, however given our run of luck over many decades i'll believe it isn't something ugly when i see him in full flight on game day

This club is cursed.

As far as KPFs are concerned i reckon you're spot on Red. Other than Neitz, who played about half his career at HB (roughly), i can't recall us being capable of fielding a regular KPF throughout the years i've watched. Not for more than 3 to 4 years before breaking down anyway.

Always a career ending injury here...another there.

And i hate to be a pessimist but after watching Hulk on the footy show with Gazza the other night, i wouldn't be holding my breath on his return this year either. He looked shattered IMO. Hopefully it was just over the thought of missing a few games and the start of the season and nothing more serious. Body language not good though.

Then there's Dawesy. To think we might be taking a "no key forward" forward line into this season, no Garland and a FB who potentially doesn't even want to be here at season's end ...

Roosy will have to be a serious magician to make something from that.

Why do they do this to us. Just be quiet go along and don't say they'll be back until they're back.

Give this man a drink!

I agree re Dawes. If both Dawes and Clark are in the same side it would almost be like the days of Nieta and ox!

Throw in howe and kennedy-harris and theres almost abit of Lyon and Farmer.. Haha if only!!

Laces didn't you read. Listen to what the good Dr says would ya

Gary was one of my all time faves.

I went in the rooms and even got a footy signed by him as a kid.

Mine too DeeZee... loved this bloke and is one of my early childhood heroes in my early games along with Wells, Alves, Bourke, Park (et al). I still recall Park butting out his smoke under boot in the forward line just as the siren blew for the start of a match haha.

Coming up on the Finey show right now

Yesterday the 11th of March. Heart flutters all-round . Extreme sadness in Dean's Passing. An excellent coach and coaching under an extreme set of guidelines for much of his tenure. The MCG Freo game with Jurrah Flying everywhere and marking everything was one of the highlights for me under the Bailey Tenure. That one game alone was worth a years membership! Dean's honesty, straight forward, positive no nonsense approach to Coaching and life makes him irreplaceable . A sad sad day. A delightful man and deserved better from Melbourne FC.

Paintsman im not often in sync with you mate but this says it all for me. A true gentleman and a decent human being which is pretty rare nowadays. Had a great smile Deano as well. Will truly be missed.

Hopefully you've gone to a better place mate...cruel way to go at such a young stage of life

My round 1 predictions...

Make absolutely NO predictions under any circumstances whatsoever!

Danks hasn't even been summoned!!

This is all very strange. I still think he should have been the first spoken to....

WYL you're making no sense at all. Would you bother interviewing the key suspect in a murder if you were the detectives in charge of the case? Of course not!

2014 Season (with Bombers in full flight under new Hird short term/interim substitute coach) roll on. Nothing to see here folks, business as usual....move along!

Then we must have had 30 000 optimists in 2013 mono .

We probably did have that many in 2013 OD! Unfortunately any optimisim was snuffed out within about 10 minutes into the opening game against Port

Our injury list looks as good as it has in years, but I am beginning to think that Tappy and Mitch might be bonus players. They just can't seem to get their bodies up to a 22 game season. If - and it is now a very big if - they can get fit it is a bonus to our season, but we might need to fit our future plans around a team without them both.

Maldon i don't think Roosy would be planning the team's future around Tappy but he'd no doubt be crossing his fingers and toes for a fit Mitch ASAP. I have no idea but my gut feel is that the hamstring problem is a pretty minor issue albeit they'd be treating with kid gloves.

The metatarsus issue must be rearing its ugly head whenever they try to up the ante on the training track doing the basics. I'm not expecting to see him in full flight this side of mid season but it would be a nice bonus. Hate to see his career over this early over a cronic foot prob. Fingers crossed for a quick recovery though.

FWIW, spoke to Wattsy briefly just before Christmas at Chaddy.

He was there for a photo shoot and said that the message under Roosy is much clearer than anything they had been getting under previous coach and coaching staff. Said it was all starting to make much more sense.

I reponded that i would hope so, especially given we now have one of the land's top 3 or 4 coaches (ie., the boys can no longer blame the coach/coaching staff for any woes from here) and wished him and the boys all the best for this season

There was no mention or indication of being hard done by or any malice towards the past coaches/set up etc that i could gather in our short exchange.

Hey guys. Happy new year to you all. Been in Hawaii for a while and just returned.

Anything interesting happened in AFL/Demonland while i was away?

The news that we can't lure a successor and the recent statement from PJ is the best news i've heard since the Roos appointment was announced.

"It’s an important decision and not one we are going to rush as a club. If we have to wait a year to find the best candidate, we are comfortable in doing so."... Peter Jackson 14 October 2013

...If there was to be a public mention of a successor and a big push so early into the Roos appointment then at the very least, this should have been the official line from day one. And, as i have argued strongly before, mention of a successor should never have been made public at all IMO, at least not until certain criteria/benchmarks/hurdles were met by Roos within the first 2 years (approx). Afterall, we did employ him to coach as well surely!!?? If he wasn't keen on doing the hard yards over 2 or 3 years (at least) then we should never have made the appointment. I'm assuming this is not the case with fingers and toes crossed and i will remain positive that Roos is in this boots and all unless proven otherwise.

This club was in a parlous state and still is. Fix the problems on the field (which will no doubt have a run off effect financially off the field as well), get the club competitive and earn some respect over at least 2 seasons (ie., show the AFL and all concerned that it wasn't a flash in the pan). THEN... start talking successor. You might also find that with that new respect and a "winning" culture, some decent candidates on offer in a year or two might be more willing to seriously consider joining us instead of staying where they are or taking up other offers. The same can be said of prospective player talent/trades who might be available in a few years time.

The following terms/quotes aren't used often because they aren't true. "Build it and they will come", "Success breeds success", "Genius is 1% talent and 99% percent hard work (Einstein).

Finally we might be getting on with focussing 110% of our attention to the massive task of making this club competitive and, in the short term, making the most of the draft period etc.

Honour before honours!!

To those who are a bit non plussed or worse re Col leaving, i wouldn't be overly worried. Roos will bring a "team" factor to the Demons that's been missing for decades. Individual greatness and effort will also be needed and will need a decent replacement/improvement soldier for Col, but Roos will find a way and build and improve on the loss plus some.

Roos is not about to sit back and just allow things to continue "as you were". We are in good hands.

Just throw as much $ and support at the club as you can, sit back, and enjoy what's to come. We finally have a bloke in charge who can turn things around. Won't happen overnight but it will happen. The day of the MFC accepting medicority is dead. Col moving on is just part of a much bigger Roos driven picture and winning culture.

ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOS!!!!

http://afl.com.au/news/2013-10-03/dew-still-a-chance-for-dees?utm_medium=RSS

Would you be happy to wait for Dew or should we get someone who is available straight away?

This has been my concern from day one of the Roos announcement. The appointment i love. However, the public (and behind scenes) announcement that we are on a mission to appoint a successor from the get go is flawed IMO.

It paints everyone into a corner and on a path that this "must" happen asap. Whereas a better option, i would have thought, was to have Roos at least "achieve" a pass mark on a short term set target. eg., say something like.... "finish somewhere between 9th to 12th by end of year 2". Once this is acheived (with maybe other benchmarks linked to some sort of target like this) you then move on to the successor phase beginning year 3 onwards and a slow withdrawal of Roos as head coach with his replacement taking over once Roos & Co. are happy that all is well. The new man taking over in say year 4 or 5.

IMO it's a massive ask for Roos, Jackson & Co. just to get the club to being a consistently competitive unit, week in and week out within a few years, let alone trying to find and put in place a number of candidate/assistants from day one, start grooming them, then choosing and setting a preferred one on a path to replace Roos ASAP. If Roos were coming into a reasonable AFL club set up/culture i would say no probs. But the MFC has been a galaxy away from anything resembling a 'reasonable' footy club for at least 3 years now. And as we can see already, the window for the best possible option may open up in 6, 12 or 18 months. In addition, if the club shows some significant improvement, the list of potential candidates and their enthusiasm to join us, may well grow from it's present state. With the existing P.J. strategy, it would seem we are almost locked into a 'selection phase' now with whatever might be available in the next few months only. I could be off the mark. P.J. and Roos might be quite flexible on this and might be in no hurry whatsoever. I hope so.

Don't get me wrong, i'm 100% behind the Roos appointment and have already re-joined/increased $ spend on membership, Something i've never done so early pre-season. Hec, I'm so wrapped I've even signed son myself and son up in the Demon Army for the first time. It's just that i believe we can't afford any distractions from the main game in the first few years of his coaching tenure. And that main game, as i'm sure most would agree, is to right what was a seriously listing MFC ship. 100% of everyone's efforts will be needed just to do so. IMHO the successor plan is a good 'medium term' idea, but a premature distraction early on in the Roos tenure.

Get some respect back into the Club first. Worry about the new guy (and who's available/willing/appropriate) sometime after that's been acheived.

Makes me even more mad that the b$@#% wouldn't give us a priority pick.

You get Swans who've won two recent premierships and can still afford Tippett and (looks like) Franklin cos of their extra mill, Hawks, who've also won two flags with their PPs, Pies with Pendles and Swan, etc etc - all squealing that we don't 'deserve' a PP, even though we've won 5 games in 2 years and haven't won a flag for fifty.

Sorry if I'm straying off topic here. Just starting to feel this anger and hopelessness growing inside me.

Equalization? HA! Pigs rectum.

Never seen my team win a flag. Kinda doubt whether I ever will.

This isn't a new scenario. We've been snuffed by the likes of the Pies, Bombers and Blues (and to a lessor extent the Cats) for years. That's how they became strong winning culture clubs while we wallowed and scrounged our way as bottom feeders, looking for the scraps for decades. Nothing's changed. The big boys don't wish to give up the power they acheived from back then. Who would. We've been part of the dumbass mediocrity clubs within the VFL (now AFL) that accepted this carp and we (with the other small fry) continued to roll over on it for decades. I would also include the Hawks in here. They secured the Morning Peninsula zone in the late 60's which produced a prolific breeding ground for them and many a great footballer. Some insignificant ones as well. You know, minor name players the likes of Knights, Mathews and Dermy, just to name a few

Extract courtesy of wikipedia....

From the mid-1960s, Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon (and to a lesser extent Geelong) perennially dominated the competition because their greater wealth allowed them to monopolise top country players and build up greater playing strength than was previously possible, while Footscray, St Kilda and Fitrroy were in grave danger of folding.

The VFL's response was to zone rural Victoria and the Riverina of New South Wales in a similar manner to metropolitan Melbourne. Because of the sparseness of Australia's rural population, the country zones related not to the player's address, but rather to the league in which he played. This difference made zone boundaries impossible to adjust and was a critical component of the failure of country zoning.

Because the VFL was aware that discrepancies existed in the strength of each zone, it was originally planned that the zones would be rotated every year so that each club would obtain a chance of receiving the best young country players. However, Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon had productive zones and were naturally unwilling to give them up for less productive ones, so the zones remained the same from the inception of country zoning until it was abolished in 1986. There was also no provision for demographic changes which occurred in the various country zones, which exacerbated the problems mentioned above.

If Col wants to walk away from being coached by Paul Roos he is a fool.

If we replace him with Heath Shaw that is a win in terms of what we put on the park.

I hope Col stays btw, but i don't think he will at this stage.

I wouldn't be so eager to replace Sylvia with a HB. Maybe one more year to see what he can offer under Roos but i'd rather consider replacing him with a better outside ball user as well as targeting another 2 to 3 solid insiders to assist Jones and Viney. But they would want to be prolific ball winners in and under if replacing Sylvia as he does a pretty good job for us here.

Alternatively, if he's on the move anyway, replace with someone who uses the ball very effectively with limited opportunites. That's the key in todays highly congested stoppage/rolling scrum style of game. I believe our defense is looking pretty solid at this point. No need for another running HB with limited lifespan who wont be around during a potential premiership window in Shaw.

We need elite ball users by hand and foot thwough the middle and i'd be looking at someone like Tayte Pears* who's out of contract. Only 23, had the best 'average' disposal efficiency percentage in the AFL this year at 86% (for players who've played more than a handfull of games), ranked 14th overall. Is more of an outside uncontested ball winner but that's exactly what we need as well as an additional 2 to 3 insiders IMO.

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2013-07-04/pears-hopeful-on-new-deal

We have Jones boy, Viney (to grow into another inside mid role) and to a lessor extent possibly Trengove (can't see it though) for the next 5 years or so at least. Toumpas, Pears, Clisby, Kent and Pickles would be very handy outside runners drifting forward and back to help out.

The option for Sylvia, doesn't have to be Tayte, but we need much better ball users (efficiency wise) than Col (ranked 568th in the leauge). I note that Jetta (18th), Strauss (19th), Pedo (77th) and Clisby (87th) were the only boys to rank in the top 100 in the league in this stat. Obviously Jetta and Strauss having such limited game time may not be a true reflection of their ability here so they fall into the 'handfull of games' area where the jury is out.

Col does get a fair amount of it. Ranked 7th to round 15 in contested and uncontested (within the club). He was also ranked 3rd in the tackle count to that point of the season. So his big body and work ethic is there in and around the stoppages. His biggest difficiency at this point i believe is his disposal efficiency % where he's ranked 30th (club) and (568 league) at around 63.5% (team's average to round 15 was 70.9%). I believe the league average is approx 73%. Can Roos and co improve Col's percentage by about 10% to get it to the team's average at this late stage? The entire team needs a 4.2% improvement overall to get to AFL average. Not that insurmountable. However, to get to AFL average Col would need to see an improvement in his disposal efficiency by a massive 15%! That's more than 3 times what's required from a team point of view.

I have faith that Roos can achieve the team average improvement to approx league average in a season or 2. Not sure he can work that kind of miracle, or even close to it, with Col given the late stage he's at career wise, however i think Sylvia's done enough to at least have a season under Roos. Who knows, he might surprise everyone with this area of his game but his heart/head would need to be in the right place.

Roos and co are more than capable of sorting all this anyway so i'll defer to their learned judgement.

* Provided he receives WADA / ASADA clearance

Getting Roos on board is a game changer, not just for Watts but for the entire club. This is one part of that change and there's many big pieces of the puzzle that will come together over the next few seasons under the watchful eye of P.J. and the wisdom of Roos.

I have faith that Roos will get the job done and we'll see a different attitude and level of commitment from Watts next year (and some others). Without Roos on board I doubt I would ever have believed this to be the case. And I don't think Watts would have had that belief either. We'd be seeing him running around in a different guernsey and some on here, including myself, wouldn't have given two hoots.

Then Geelong slow the game down, should have put the foot down.

They'll be putting their foot up Chappy's bum I wld think. May have cost them a shot at the flag. Pathetic umpiring in the last 20 minutes of the 2nd which brought the Hawks back from the brink (they were rattled) and some poor play from experienced players like Hunt and Kelly didn't help. Rivers started the doubts/rot going as well with his woeful kick on the full when under no pressure. They played panick footy after that. Pods and Hawkins had little impact overhead and pods gave them nothing higher up the ground like he usually does. Both got towelled up by their opponents once the ball hit the deck.

The Hawks won more of the clearances out of the middle and with a strangling forward press in that last quarter. Fresher legs probably played a part as well. IMO Scott also managed the older brigade poorly by not resting a heap of them just before the finals a la Lyon (Freo).

I cant think of a worse GF than Hawks vs Freo. Freo will eventually get trounced and the game itself will be an absolute yawn for the first half until the Hawks finally break the shackles after half time. Oh, my mistake there's an equally worse GF match up looming and thats if the Swannies somehow scrape through. They'll get smashed from the 2nd quarter onwards I reckon.

Cant see either team getting within 8+ goals of the Hawks at this point. I cant watch another round of Hawks backslapping their way into the rooms yet again after running around the G with another cup. Such a bunch of chuckers/cheaters and arrogant pricks.

2014 roll on.