Jaded No More

I think that despite the heated debate, we've remained fairly sensible here on Demonland, which is a credit to everyone who posts here.

Well I'm a moderator and I sometimes get logged out while posting and reading... so there you have it, we're all suffering here! The way to solve this, is when you log in, make sure that the box 'remember me' is ticked. This way you will remain logged on (you can still log off whenever you want by clicking the 'log off' button at the top of the screen).

Yep, just like there is no drug problem in the AFL So if one of our players hits say one or both of the Carrs this weekend, can we plead 'exceptional and compelling circumstances' on grounds of them being complete tools and therefore deserving of a good beating?

The AFL is run by a bunch of scared little men. Instead of tackling this issue head on, they swept it under the rug by clearing both parties and wiping their hands clean without a guilty conscience. They've done the same with drugs, player depression, they've even managed to stuff up 150 year old rules. If they can't get a simple 'hands in the back' rule correct, what hope have they got of dealing with bigger, more concerning issues? But here's the stupidest part, by trying to get rid of this issue, they've opened up an even bigger can of worms. How long before a player pleads not guilty on the count of his victim's offensive sledging? What an absolute joke!

Once again the AFL gets it wrong, so totally and completely wrong. They clear Selwood due to lack of evidence, then they clear Headland for decking him, which is a clear indication Selwood did indeed make the comments. How can they not suspend Headland, when he clearly hit the guy, and how many players are now going to use the excuse of "oh, but he offended me, I had every right to punch him" to try and get off a charge? And if Selwood's comments justify Headland's reaction, don't they also justify some sort of punishment for Selwood? What the hell are they hoping to achieve with these decisions? Swiping the issues under the rug yet again, hoping to not upset either camp and make this whole thing disappear. How typical of Demetrious' administration!

Ummm... never? But I'm not going to cry if he gets suspend, that's all. Also, he looks like he'd throw a good punch.

I agree, and I understand your point, however... With no Farmer and no Medhurst, who do you think Bell should play on? He could always play a more sweeping role, taking over in the absence of Rivers. Alternatively, he could be put in the middle and throw his weight around. Put it this way, with such a depleted midfield, our backline is going to come under serious fire this weekend. But if we could somehow minimise the midfield damage, it will make the job of our defenders a lot easier. I'd be keen to see Belly tried in the midfield this week. Maybe not all game, but definitely for periods throughout. Occo, Daniel Bell is top 3 in our B&F at this point in time. The way he's going compared to the rest of the side, he could very well win the damn thing.

Oh great, just great. If anyone deserves to be suspended, it's that low-life snipper. Who the hell needs evidence when it comes to Josh Carr? Of course he hit someone, it's second nature to him! I guess with half our midfield out injured, and the other half filling holes up forward and down back, he can line up on Godfrey and Godfrey can hopefully whack him one back!

I guess I should have said, they pushed him too hard too soon. Playing 70% of game time is a big load for someone who spent virtually all of last year and this pre-season, nursing his groin. Why was he brought back onto the ground in the last quarter anyway? They shouldn't have let him move from the moment he felt a bit of pain. And you know what they say, when one door closes, another one opens... Roll on the kids! Edit: This is taken from that Wikipedia link: "Surgical intervention, such as wedge resection of the pubis symphysis, is sometimes attempted in severe cases, but its success rate is not high, and surgery may lead to later pelvic problems." I guess it is up to the individual whether they are willing to take the risk that comes with surgery.

Funny that. Good family friends of ours are Richmond supporters. Last weekend they took their 5 year old to her first ever match, all decked out in yellow and black. The following day, I asked her how she enjoyed her first match. Her answer: "It was good, but we lost". I didn't have the heart to tell the poor soul that she had better get used to it. It's absolutely criminal to force your children to barrack for Richmond if you ask me.

I don't know too many players in the system who have suffered from OP for 4 years, to the point where they couldn't get on the field. Luke Ball managed it, as have others. I remember Stephen Powell had it operated on, spent a year on the sidelines, and made a full recovery. If that's what it takes, then just do it. He cannot continue to survive in this game if he can't play more than 2 VFL matches in a row. It must be terribly frustrating for him, and I wouldn't blame him if it completely wore him down mentally as well as physically. We can give people new hearts, lungs and kidneys... surely there are medical solutions to this problem. Even if they are drastic, after 4 years it seems that we are well and truely ready to take drastic measures.

Jesus, that article is horrible. The fact that Petterd or Garlan MAY debut this weekend, doesn't really make up for the fact that Rivers, Moloney and Sylvia have all been ruled out, while TJ is no certainty either. What the hell is going on with the OP epidemic down at the club? Surely, after 4 years in the system, you would expect Sylvia to be fit and ready to play. As for Moloney, they clearly pushed him when he wasn't ready. Grrrr. Depressing!

As I said in the initial post, all of this is nothing but mere allegations, and we'll probably never know exactly what took place. Selwood will keep defending his position, and Headland will defend his. The issue for the AFL is now bigger than just this incident though. They will surely examine sledging, just as they have high-tackles, tripping, eye gouging and so on, to try and establish some sort of guidelines. People will say that sledging is in no way dangerous like high tackles may be, or eye gouging, and that's true in a physical sense, but who are we to judge what emotional pain comes from these incidents? Already we know of players suffering from depression. Who knows what your opponent is going through behind closed doors, or what highly personal and inappropriate sledges may do to their well-being. The AFL has an obligation to keep its players safe and healthy, and this is part of it. Any workplace with decent OH&S laws has rules in place in regards to bullying and verbal taunting. I'm not saying we should completely eliminate talk out on the field. We don't want to sterilize the game to the point where it's boring and lifeless, but some things are not fair game and there is a point where 'white line fever' becomes a poor excuse for stupid and hurtful behaviour. BTW, claiming that anyone on has commented on this issue supports child abuse or pedophilia is completely ridiculous and unjustified. Nobody has come out and condoned child molestation and if they did, they wouldn't post here anymore.

It is pretty ironic that Melbourne fans come on a Melbourne site to complain about being Melbourne supporters. Football has its ups and downs, but it's not a must and nobody is forcing you to stick around. Being a Melbourne supporter is a tough job, but I firmly believe that we're all stronger people for it

Nope, but it [censored] me off, and we all know you don't want to mess with me! <_< I hope I deleted it before anyone got a chance to see it, especially the poster in question. And another thing, I started this thread hoping to get some mature discussion going on, given everything that has been happening at our club lately. If people can't discuss or argue their point in a mature way, and feel the need to abuse one another (and this goes to everyone, not just you SS), I will lock the thread... which will be a shame because this is actually the first non 'Melbourne is crap' thread we've had on this site since Round 1.

Ok Slander, this is what you said... Firstly, child abuse is also against the law, as is pedophilia. Secondly, again I'm not justifying Headland's reaction. I never have. Thirdly, race or culture is more personal than your own child? Maybe in your eyes, but not in the eyes of a lot of people. As I said, different people are offended by different things. The comment made was distasteful, and inappropriate. I guess what it comes down to is, where do you draw the line? We say no to racism, and rightly so, but everything else is ok? I don't have kids, and I'm no footy player... who knows, maybe I'm just too sensitive, but a lot of people do seem to agree that Selwood's alleged comments stepped over the 'what happens on the footy field, stays on the footy field' line.

Oh my lord, this thread has gone way beyond its original intention. Now people are sledging one another, and it's messier than a West Coast after-party. :D The new issue now seems to be, that what offends some, many not offend others. That's human nature. We can't make rules that please everyone, but surely there are certain social issues that are deemed unacceptable by the majority of people. These issues usually include racism and child abuse (which encompasses pedophilia). If everyone agrees that racism is not on when sledging on the footy field, why is this different? If Selwood called Headland a 'dirty [censored] so and so', everyone would raise their eyebrow, even though some of the comments accompanying the racial slur may not be true. So why then, is it not ok to racially vilify an opponent, but having a crack at his 6 year old daughter is fair-game? Again, not justifying Headland's reaction, but just as we fine all players involved in a scuffle, the AFL should also punish both these parties as they were equally to blame for what went on. BTW, Headland should be free to tattoo himself with whatever he likes. Blaming the tattoo is just stupid!

Which comes back to Nasher's original point, that the sledge is not offensive, but rather stupid, because it's not true. I don't see it that way. It's offensive regardless, and is inappropriate. Let me put it another way. Say somebody accused you of being a 'so and so Jew', and you weren't Jewish, is that offensive?

The issue here is NOT whether Headland's reaction was stupid, of course it was! He is a headcase and it's easy to put him off his game, which is a problem for Freo. The issue here is whether or not Selwood stepped over the line when he used a sledge that involved sexually explicit remarks about a 6 year old. The action and the reaction are two separate issues. Nobody doubts that the reaction was stupid, the question is, was the action itself appropriate when you consider that 'anything goes on the footy field', or are there certain boundaries which players must not cross? How would you feel if an opposition player went up to one of our boys and said "your dead mate Broady is having a better game than you"... is that appropriate?

I couldn't believe it when I read it this morning. Thank god for that!

Well, if nothing else, my deflection tactics worked. :D For what it's worth, I agree with Old. Selwood has to be accountable for his words, but then again unaccountability is nothing new when it comes to players of the West Coast Eagles.

Just so we're clear, I don't condone Headland's reaction. He should have known better than to attack Selwood and cost his team 6 weeks of his services. But as someone else said, this is not about Headland's reaction, which was silly to the extreme, it's about what caused it. I'm also not suggesting that it wasn't a throw-away line by Selwood, which is no doubt a common thing that happens when you're out there playing footy. But where do you draw the line? If it's not ok to attack people based on their religion or race, why is it ok to attack children and make sexual comments about them? It may be a storm in a tea-cup, or a way for Headland to try and justify his stupid reaction, but if Selwood really did make these comments, then I can't say I feel sorry for the abuse he's about to cop. I don't have kids, but if anyone came up to me and said things of a sexual nature about my younger cousins, or any of the kids I look after, I'd be tempted to thump them too. Why is it necessary to bring innocent kids into the equation I will never know. Surely there are plenty of sledges to go around.

I thought it might be a good idea to deflect, and take the heat off our footy club for a minute by turning our heads to the west. I'm sure it comes as no big surprise to read that there has been a big fall-out following the derby over in Perth. Who would have guessed it, two teams with zero discipline or accountability for their actions going head to head in the fishbowl that is Western Australian footy, and causing problems. The most disturbing story to come out of the game though, is surely the Selwood sledging. Now before we go any further, it has to be made clear that this is yet to be proven and we won't know for sure until tomorrow night whether or not this stuff was said, although all evidence suggest that this indeed took place. Surely though, it has got to be one of the lowest acts of sledging we've heard on a footy field. For those who haven't heard it, the story goes that Selwood apperantly made sexually explicit remarks about Des Headland's six year old daughter. That's right, she's six, and Selwood was claiming to have had intercourse with her, except he didn't word it so politely. I'm no prude, and of course every player will try and get stuck into his opponent with a bit of sledging, but what sort of human being resorts to abusing a child who is in no way involved in the game? It may be unfair to blame the club for this, but it's another one for the book of 'Eagles' players behaving like immature tools'. I hope that just as Headland is about to spend significant time on the sidelines (as he should btw), that if proven true, Selwood joins him. There has got to be a clear line which players should not cross. It's unacceptable when it's racial, and it's unacceptable if it involves attacking innocent children and making explicit remarks. And as a side note, West Coast may be a hugely successful club on the field, but their players and the way that team is managed is extremely poor. There is no accountability from players or from the board, and because they go unpunished they continue to act as if they untouchable and as if they can do as they please.

We all know I'm the driver of the "play the kids" bandwagon, and this is how I see it: Inexperienced players will always be just that, inexperienced, until such time that they are given a significant run in the AFL. Some people are saying that we are risking damaging these young players by throwing them to the wolves too early. But speak to any kid coming through the ranks and they'll tell you that nothing can prepare you for AFL football. Whether you've been at a club for a day, a month or a year, you are never truely ready for what awaits you. Yes, young players can be damaged by having too much pressure put on them when they are not ready. Mentally it can shatter their confidence if unsuccessful (or elevate their confidence to unhealthy levels if successful), and physically it can damage their bodies if they are over-worked. I am certainly not in favour of either of those two things happening to any of our players, which is why I am advocating that we play players who have been in the system for a couple of years at least. Their form at VFL level may not be great, and their impact on game day may be insignificant, but it's not as if we are asking them to win us games of football, far from it. Furthermore, nobody is suggesting that these players replace senior players with a proven track record. But you tell me, what is the point of playing guys like Godfrey, Brown, Ferguson etc..., who while they try their absolute hardest, are just not good enough at this level? Not only are they going to do nothing for our long term success, they are not winning us games in the short term either. What good will come of protecting these kids for another month, or another year? At some point we're going to have to bite the bullet and throw them into the deep end. They may very well sink along with the rest of the side, or they might just keep their head above water long enough to give us a glimpse into their capabilities. One thing is certain, it serves no purpose keeping these kids back, when the alternative is to play players who are not going to be at the club next year or the following year. Because in two years from now, when Brown has hung up his boots and Godfrey is running around in some country league, we don't want their replacements to have had zero games experience and absolutely no idea of what it takes to be an AFL footballer. Well anyways, that's my two cents worth. I know a lot of people see it as a sign of resignation, but to me there is never a bad time to breed new talent, especially when you are 0-3, have an injury list the size of Sandilands, and your depth players are proving to be unsuccessful.

Jared Rivers - Has hamstring soreness after making his return from a hamstring injury that occurred during the pre-season. May be in doubt for round 4. Brent Moloney- Looks to either have suffered a strain or has had a recurrence of the soreness he experienced last season. Very unlikely to play this week. Colin Sylvia- Has groin soreness. James Frawley - foot stress fracture Rnd 6 David Neitz- Has a grade 2 MCL tear and will miss at least 4 weeks. Brock McLean- Fractured foot and will miss at least 6 weeks. Clint Bartram- Has had an arthroscope for a knee injury. Travis Johnstone- Looks to have fractured his hand and will likely miss at least 6 weeks. Russell Robertson- Hyperextended his knee and has extensive bone bruising. Injury was worse than first thought and he has had surgery and will not play before the mid season break. That is the most depressing injury list I ever read. They are all long term injuries too, which makes this even worse. *Sigh*