Moonshadow

he announced on Friday he wanted to come to the Dees, today is Tuesday calm down people clam down!

Ooh, I like a good clam chowder.

Typical of the bullying for which Collingwood is renowned and hated.We need Dawes so have to pay 'overs' to get him. Does it really matter if Petterd is included in the deal? Would he get a game with them on his performances this year? He played very few with us!Get it done. Give us a second big tall in the forward line.

In the presser Neeld did with Hogan he mentioned bringing in around 12 players into the 2013 list. Some experienced and some thru the draft. That means that borderline players who are not getting a senior game like Petterd are likely to go to make room. We are going to see a number of 2012 players leave or be pushed. That's the reality of trading this year when you include the mini draft, FAs, 2010/11 compo picks, FA compo picks, and OOC players. There was a good article in the Age on the weekend on the power the FA rules give clubs, as opposed to the power it gives players. Mentions Petterd as a example of a not-yet-RFA player who is OOC and not getting a game in the seniors. Worth reading.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/torn-free-20121013-27kbj.html

I cannot believe you are a day over 40, BBO. You look great on your avatar for a man of 60. What's the secret?

I actually started as a Tigers supporter at age 4 cause I liked the tigers at the zoo. My grandfather was a lifelong dee supporter, so is my father. At around age eight I found myself on the edge of my seat at Melbourne games and not particularly interested in Tigers matches. After declaring to all my friends at primary school that I was converting to a Demon supporter, I got repeated beatings - there were NO other Melbourne fans at school. Must be in my genes. My 4 yr old is now declaring she supports Melbourne, but doesn't quite know what the game is about or what the big deal is. She'll learn.

It will be interesting to see MN's drafting strategy should we take the ruckman Grundy (or should he be available) at pick 4. That would mean we only recruit one high quality small midfielder in this draft (Viney). Most here agree that our midfield sucks and the main priority this year was to get a number of very good mids. So far in the trade period we have seen good results in seeking KPPs. ATM, we have Jones as our only elite performing mid. Whilst Trenners, Grimes, et al might become A graders, I was under the impression that we were going to target very good mids this year. Or do we wait until next year's draft?

And yes, I am aware that a ruckman is considered part of the midfield.

Ok, I take the 'dumb' bit back. Replace with 'gullible', then.

So you don't know anything about Port but you want to trade for their players?

Hmmmmmm...........

I'm guessing with a new rookie coach, Port will keep what they have (except Pearce and Chaplin, FAs) - unless its an offer too good to refuse. Will build in the draft.

The Roos also look set to part company with ruckman Hamish McIntosh and tall utility Cameron Pedersen during the trade period, with the club likely to reach deals with Geelong and Melbourne respectively.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/149590/default.aspx

Interesting.

Cruise Gartlett wants out, Hansen yet to be re-signed, as is Warren, Edwards and McKinley. McIntosh out, Pederson out. Sounds like a clearance sale.

Anyone know much about Gartlett?

Wats happened to the talk of John Butcher? 21 Yrs, 197cms - 90Kgs?

Swap Morton with Butcher.

Would RIV like to finish his career at home?

Could we find a swap for Jay Schultz? Martin? Or, Russian for Schultz & Butcher?

Are you serious? How dumb do you think Port are? Just cause they have a new rookie coach doesn't mean they're going to give us their best prospects for a can of coke and a half eaten pie. We'd have to give them TMac for Butcher and Howe for Schultz or similar. Honestly, be serious or just read rather than post.

Not sure if this has been posted

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/demons-confident-of-luring-dawes-20121011-27f3d.html

Promising.

i agree whole-heartedly that it isn't much better, but it wont be the 10year forward line we'll be making a flag tilt with until 2014 and the introduction of hogan.

pederson or gumby for a 3rd rnd pick i could understand but from 2014 onwards whoever we pick up becomes a depth player imo behind clark and hogan...a first rnd pick seems wasteful if traded for mediocre kpf.

Absolutely agree that we want to keep pick 4 and 20. We need quality mids.

I don't think Hogan will have a big impact till 2015/16. He can't play till the start of 2014. I'd love him to kick 50 goals in his first year, but realistically, he'll prob only play 8-12 games. That's over 3 years away (2016), and also when Clark comes up for a new contract. We need another KPF in the mean time, and the three Neeld, et al are talking to are very worthy of having a crack at.

Martin for Dawes?

they dont have to be as good as cox and nic nat, just play a similair role.

Fitzy played the year as a fwd pinch hitting the ruck very well at casey all year and if his development continues next year he could be every bit as useful as dawes or gumby.

2013 fwd line- byrnes clark fitz

sylvia watts howe

if you rotate fitz with jamar throughout the match i think we could retain solid structure and not have to give up a first rnd pick on a caretaker kpf

I see your point Rolly, but that fwd line you suggest is not much better, if at all, than what we started with this season.

Try:

Byrnes, Dawes/Ped/Gumby, Silvia

Fitzy, Clark, Davey

With Jamar or Gawn drifting in as 3rd or 4th big.

Watts will stay in back line for time being, as will Sellar, Garland and Rivers (if they stay)

Howe will play more in midfield perhaps drifting fwd, swapping with Sylvia.

Out: Martin (trade), Green (ret), Jurrah (delist), Cook (delist).

Heard from a guy who is friends with this Vlastuin character, and Neeld interviewed him at the Combine, however he looked him in the eye and told him I don't want to play for Melbourne, something about the bad culture. Absolute rubbish for an 18 year old kid- I feel like gone are the days were its an honour to play in the league, 18 year old's lead by this Josh Caddy idiot think they pick and choose what happens.

I hope Viney splits that little **** in half.

And when we look at the interview with Dom Barry on DeeTV, that kid is over the moon at being on an AFL list. He looks like he has to hold himself back from punching the air and yelling 'yeehhhh!!!'. Now there is a kid who is working hard to be the best footballer he can.

Not sure I'd fully believe the Vlastuin story though. Surely this kid would know that if Neeld repeated that story to the AFL he'd be in trouble. Could be construed as draft tampering by some.

I really think this is spot on. I'm not sure that he's 100% to blame, especially taking the whole Bailey 'lack of development' era into account.

Lets see what Neeld and Mission can get out of him before we throw him to the dogs (no pun intended).

Edit: Holy crap I just realised my first ever post is one agreeing with Olisik. There is no hope for me.

Welcome Choke. Worse things have happened than agree with olisik. I just can't quite think of any ATM........

How did he have a promising start???

getting cheap no contact kicks by himself from the kickouts,,, (stats, mindless stats) hah. "useless as [censored] on a bull".

I could go out there now and get those kicks he got. so he can catch the ball when on his own,,, right.

No you could not. Your post adds nothing.

Cale Morton had a good first 2 years for a skinny kid. He showed a lot of confidence and ability. He has lost that confidence and his body is still wafer thin.

I think he is the best of his brothers (which is not saying a lot, granted) and, if Neeld thinks he can be of value, I back him to develop and work Cale hard, and get out that potential many saw after 40 games. A second preseason under Misson might make a big difference.

But if Neeld doesn't see hope, there is nothing more to do than trade him, as he has a contract for 2013.

Neeld and co. just signed him to that 3 year deal.

It would take a reversal that I don't see them making.

We have two AA players at the club. Don't really think we have to get rid of them to be honest.

We have two EX-all Australians at the club. I think if we sign Grundy and Jamar has another year like 2012, we will regret not trading him now and he'll be traded this time next year for lesser value. Really, Jamar has had only one good season. Regardless of when he was signed, I'd be looking at all options. We are still developing and plenty of clubs have only young, talented rucks on their list, knowing that they will develop with the team.

I like the possibility of Fitzy, Gawn and Jamar resting forward as the third tall forward. Like Cox and NicNat.

Clark, Hogan and Gawn/Fitzy/Jamar should cover us for tall forwards.

Unfortunately, Gawn/ Fitzy/Jamar will never be as good in any combo - ruck or fwd - as Cox or NicNat (settle Rangey....)

Cox could very well be a high quality permanent fwd, if Worsfold chose to. And NicNat will be, in due course.

That is why one or even 2 of Ped/ Dawes/Gumby is a good idea, at the right price.

Also, if one or both of Clarke/Hogan went down with a LT injury (touch wood no), the above recruits could step in.

Or would you prefer the likes of Rivers, Garland or Silvia to do that again for another year?

PS - please please please lets keep pick 4 live for a gun mid in the draft - Toumpas, O'Rourke, Wines.

Sellar is ok in the back line, I like him there. When he runs straight at the ball and can see his options up ahead he generally does well. I don't think he's clever enough (runs to the right spots, uses space well, assists crumbers, etc) or a strong enough mark to be a key fwd. Think we'll find him improve in 2013, assuming he is given a contract, which is likely if Riv leaves. One of Pederson, Gumby, Dawes at the right price would be a good pick up for 2013 and beyond. Difficult to expect too much of Hogan in 2014, ok if he plays 6-12 games. I like the idea of having 3 or even 4 KPFs on the list because at any one time it is possible that a KPF will be out injured, or poor form dictates they need a spell in VFL. Look what happened when Clark went down mid-year. Competition for spots on the list is important. Added to this mix of KPFs is Fitzpatick, who will show his worth next year if the rise in improvement continues.

Starting to get a little excited!

i dont think using pick 20 to trade in a key forward for 12months is good value.

I also dont think 1gun mid + viney is a massive return for the talent in this draft.

If we traded pick 4+20 and got picks 12+13 i think we could get some exciting midfield speed and class.

It has been noted by many draft watchers (on forums, media and club talent scouts) that this draft is very good at the pointy end, but drops off after that significantly. Trading pick 4 for picks in the teens is madness. Give me one BMW over 2 x Corollas any day. Hogan will be worth it IMHO, but a gun midfielder is what we need to compliment taking Viney. This draft is rich in mids, next year is better for KPPs, apparently. Toumpas, O'Rourke or Wines, please.

Id trade Cale for one of those Wakey waving inflatable flailing arm tube men.

Too many on the mark. That's a certain 50m penalty.

That's not how it works - the MD occurs during THIS trade period so we will officially select Hogan next week or the week after and GC Martin.

GC will take Martin and we will take Hogan. It's just a formality.

http://www.goldcoastfc.com.au/news-and-media/news/mckenna-talks-jack-martin/

Cheers Dr G.

Nah, we just have to select him in the minidraft.

GC have pick 1, we have pick 2, those are the only 2 picks.. but gc have said they are taking martin, so we are left with the rest, and of which we have chosen hogan

My understanding is that GC have pick 1 in the MD and we pick 2 - these are picks, not specific players. While GC have said they will select Martin with this and we Hogan, I'm not sure there is a binding contract between these players and clubs.

Is there a chance GC could select Hogan before us this time next year? I'm not sure of the exact rules. Anyone know for sure, rather than speculation?

What deal needs to be done on an RFA?

If Port want Moloney they take him. We've already expressed our desire not to keep him.

Compensation will be from the ND, not from Port.

Ed: At least that's how I understand it.

If we were to match Port's offer to Beamer (highly unlikely) then he could only go there as part of a trade.

I don't get it that a club would trade for a FA or RFA when they can be obtained for nothing.

Compensation then comes from the ND.

Another midfielder, especially if we get Grundy at pick 4. Viney and Barry are too little from a so-called supper draft blessed with midfielders.

Where are the midfield FA and RFAs we were gonna target? With Beamer seemingly gone, we severely lack experience in the midfield.

Yeah i am a bit, but provided we get a good deal for him if he was to be traded i wouldn't mind but i fear we wouldn't quite get what he is worth! He showed what he could do when he was our ruckman in 2011, but as you said he was a solo ruckman and he doesn't quite perform in a duo (a bit like goldstein + Mcintosh). i do feel if we do trade him and he is used as a solo ruck then we may see him dominate us, this i also fear if we were to let him go.

And I do agree with you on Gawn. If he can become fit (no injuries) then i would say he would overtake martin just because of his sheer height as he is like Sandi!

It's unfortunate, because I think he's a good footballer when he's given a bit of freedom in the ruck.

2011 was not a good year for us, but Martin showed considerable promise against a lot of quality opposition. I wouldn't be surprised if he developed to be amongst the best 10 rucks in the comp. Just wont happen with us.

Should be worth something in a trade.

Fitzpatrick is an odd one. Before his diabetes was diagnosed he was terrible. Watching him play was like a watching a stick insect drown. Lots of thrashing limbs for little result and the sad realisation that the poor creature shoudln't be there in the first place.

Since then I've seen a couple of Casey games on tv and he looks like a player. Very quick for his size, very agile and can hold a mark. His kicking action is uglier than a Phil Scully nude calendar but I think we could see Fitzy play a lot more AFL games this year.

Lol!

You have combined perhaps the most humorous analogy (stick insect) with the most repulsive (P Scully calendar) I have heard in a very long time!

I'd say given that we re-signed Jamar for another 3 years he will be our no1 ruck, with Martin as 2nd ruck. Its hard to tell whether Gawn(injuries), fitzpatrick and Spencer will develop into no1 rucks so martin as Jamar are our safest bets atm. Sellar seems to be getting used as a defender/forward and i'd say that will be where he stays.

I'm aware you are somewhat besotted with Stef Martin, YDE, but you should also be aware that Martin is of little use to us as a second/resting ruck. He really does his only good work as a solo ruck. He's of more value to us as a trade, unfortunately. If you love him, let him go. I'd suggest you (legally) download and watch the film 'Born Free'.

Jamar and Gawn will be our rucks, with Spencil as depth. If we get Grundy, then he may well get a number of games in 2013, and push Spence further down the pecking order. I do think the Russian needs a big 2013 to survive on our list. He's been around long enuf to be well aware of this and he'll rise to the challenge.

Good luck with Stef.