nutbean

yup it made a huge difference - we won two wooden spoons with them at the club two years previously, we improved with them last year and did we actually fall away dramatically because they werent at the club ? We absolutely lack leadership and experience but did Bruce and Miller actually provide that ? I take Junior out of the equation because the major cross on him was that his body was not coping - recurring soft tissue injuries. Edit - our improvement last year came not because our leaders stepped up but because some of the youth started to provide impetus.

Loved him as a player and the club should have told earlier in the year however the bottom line is that he is a player who wanted to play on and the club didnt - it happens. Cameron Bruce wants two years we offer him one - it happens. Brad Miller thinks he has more to offer - it happens Guerra gets told by two clubs his services arent required - it happens Heath Scotland wanted more opportunity so he moved to Carlton - it happens Brogan,Cornes and Power - thanks for the careers and then move to GWS to play some more - it happens. The club could have told him earlier but the end result would have been no different - he wanted to play on, we didnt want him to. End of story

Malcolm Blight

Agreed - there is not doubt that a "scully" would come on quicker at MFC than at GWS and that he would come on even quicker at Collingwood where he would he would be fourth tier mid behind Swan, Pendlebury and Thomas

The "spirit" and "intent" of the Lyon contract is for another 12 months - compare that to Eddie MacGuire - "If Mick decides to go elsewhere we will go legal"

My solution ( and you helped old !!! you mentioned this previously) Bring in free agency rules as of last year - give Gold Coast first dibs last year and two years of GWS ( not sure why GC only gets one and GWS gets two) and then bring it in for all clubs

Delicate Des O'Dwyer

Schwab brought up the subject of limiting the age of uncontracted players but this was not accepted by the AFL ( that was in an article about 2-3 months ago). It does not surprise me that the poaching of first contract players was not seriously considered as it still doesnt make sense to me. Given the choice of Ward or Griffin who is now 25 - no brainer Given the choice of Scully or Sylvia - I would be taking Sylvia (Col's consistency is a concern) Given the choice of Davis or Rutten - no brainer Given the choice of Palmer or anybody - I'd take anybody The Suns recruited exactly as i expected - harder older bodies to compliment and teach the youth. Recruiting Scully and Davis - makes no logical sense to me.

I heard the interview and Bailey was a thorough gentleman. Again - shows media telling half stories - Bailey did say what was in the article and then went on to talk about Chocko Williams as coach of Port who didnt drink and never understood why people wasted their time doing it and Bailey went on to say that some people do and some dont and Tom doesn't - no biggie. He really made the drinking into a non issue and the headline saying that the issues at Melbourne had some bearing on his decision - I didnt take that out of the interview at all. Edit - even the subject line of this post is inaccurate - no barbs at all thrown from my hearing of the interview

We have the obvious - another number 31 - fabulous Phil Carmen And a little more obscure - from the late 70's - he was dubbed "The Great White Hope" - any guesses ?

Nutbeans law - do not whack any under 23 - it will ultimately bite you on the bum. Have we learned nothing ? I have not whacked Watts or NicNat as they are still learning their trade - mere 20 year olds. I will not whack Tom's performance to date as he is a second year player who spent most of his second year injured or underdone. Get into him as much as you like for accepting the pot of gold and debate all your like whether he was honest or dishonest but writing him off as just not that good right now is lunacy. (Brendan Goddard says hello)

It will be - Pendlebury next year - pencil it in.

It is ok for players to leave for big money if they want. I posted elsewhere - we supporters are 100% emotional - we pay to watch our team. ( and dip into our pockets every time we are asked). Some players will stay at a club for less money for the "dream" of premierships, others will take the money and run. I understand that players have to make these decisions ( Cam Bruce). Just dont expect us supporters to accept it. It wasnt a soft response from Jones - it was a dumb response from Jones. Complete lack of understanding of how supporters feel. The better post was to not post at all.

The interesting part of this ( which I posted earlier) is around the reported $6M and 6 years. When did this happen ? If we are to believe the reports , for last 3 months we were at $5M for 5 years and all of a sudden Bazinga.....another Million and another year ! How did this reconcile with a deal done a year ago ?

I posted this in another thread but I think it is worthy of its own thread and discussion We can debate until the cows come home when the SCully "deal" was a "done deal". And Jimmy is right in saying that the current GWS scenario forces players to lie. This is not going to go away because we are coming into the new era of free agency and more lying, perceived lying, charades, players protesting innocence will take place. We, the AFL and the clubs, need to stop being children and adopt the NRL model. When you sign up with another club or are looking to move, you sign up ( or signal your intentions) and say - next season I'm with the Lions/Saints/whatever. What will happen is the clubs in the hunt for the flag will play their leaving players as winning is everything. The players out of the running for the flag may drop their defectors ( the problematic part is if the players existing contract may have bonus's for games played, goals, B&F votes etc etc) We will hate it for 5 years and then it will be the accepted norm. It happens in most other professional sports - it should in happen ours. It may be foreign to the culture of our game but it is the only way to go in my opinion - thoughts ?

Lets not move on - we can debate until the cows come home when this "deal" was a "done deal". And Jimmy is right in saying that the current GWS scenario forces players to lie. This is not going to go away because we are coming into the new era of free agency and more lying, perceived lying, charades, players protesting innocence will take place. We, the AFL and the clubs, need to stop being children and adopt the NRL model. When you sign up with another club or are looking to move, you sign up ( or signal your intentions) and say - next season I'm with the Lions/Saints/whatever. What will happen is the clubs in the hunt for the flag will play their leaving players as winning is everything. The players out of the running for the flag may drop their defectors ( the problematic part is if the players existing contract may have bonus's for games played, goals, B&F votes etc etc) We will hate it for 5 years and then it will be the accepted norm. It happens in most other professional sports - it should in happen ours.

It costs me nothing to believe that it wasn't a done deal until the end of season - ( howl me down all and sundry) BUT please......... "I dont play football for money" Be a man like Ward who said that money was a major factor in his decision. $6M over 6 years is huge - grow some and say. "Happy to be in Sydney - the offer was enormous and too good to pass up and has set me up for life" "I dont play football for money" - ummm yeah you do.. ( not that there's anything wrong with that - just man up and say it !). We as supporters are 100% emotional - we PAY to go watch our team. Players are PAID to play the game - it is their profession. Now some more than others base their decisions on the emotion of the dream of playing finals and premierships which you cannot place a dollar figure on whilst others draw the line at what the game can pay them. Again Tom, no problem with you going for the big money - all you have to do is say the four words - "I went for money"

I love Mark Robinson - watch on AFL 360. When he makes a comment, he cant even convince himself !! Its like he is half way through saying something and a little voice goes off in his head that says - "Ï dont even buy that...no one else will either" I dont hate any of the journo's, broadcasters except one - Bartlett. If you even think of disagreeing with him, he turns into my ex wife.

having way too much fun to stop

Criminal Court - beyond reasonable doubt - not a hope in hell that you would get it over the line Civil Proceedings - balance of probabilities - you still have to have a little something called evidence - circumstantial opinion doesnt count. not a hope in hell you would get it over the line. And just for your reference - by its very nature, Courts must not convict on circumstantial evidence. Courts decide whether evidence should be considered circumstantial ( and therefore carry zero weight) or not.

I was once of that camp - I have shifted ground slightly because anything is possible. I actually dont hold any opinion now on anyone telling the truth or not. Someone is telling porkies for sure. I no longer trust or distrust the journo's sources ( although I will shred them for inaccuate reporting), I neither trust nor distrust Tom and will not villify him. I choose to ignore all the froth and bubble and accept that he will sign a contract with someone. (this is on doctors orders !)

Mike Sheahan put it nicely when asked how stories can be so wrong. And the answer he gave was that at the time something is written it may be right. We may never have the insight but if he stays ( here's hoping) that still doesnt prove that he didnt get an offer last year - committed without signing and changed his mind. We may never have the insight but if he stays ( here's hoping) that still doesnt prove the he never received an offer early , never committed early and only just made up his mind now We may never have insight but if he goes that still doesnt prove that he got an offer last year - signed early and is now leaving. We may never have the insight but if he goes that still doesnt proves the he never received an offer early , never committed early and only just made up his mind now. I think that covers all bases. (oohh if he stays it proves he could not have signed a water tight contract with GWS)

The Ox's statement is an opinion not fact. For every Ox statement there is a counter statement elsewhere from someone else. You have interpreted what Silvagni said in TAC show and it was far from definitive of anything - clumsy - The only facts we have to date is there is a whole heap of misinformation and lies in the public arena and the other fact is we dont really know who the liars or disinformationer's (i dont think thats a word !) are.

And therein lies what a few of us have been operating on since day dot. No-one to date has ante'd up with "facts" (sources are not facts) so in the absence of facts we have chosen to believe the only people actually involved first hand in the process. We are relying on statements from Tom and his management and in recent days, The CEO of GWS and Silvagni - yet to make a decision. Now everyone who thinks to the contrary and are suggesting that lies are being told may be absolutely right but it can only be opinion (in the absence of fact) and the in grand scheme of things it doesnt matter one iota because the only thing that counts is official ink on paper. Play on !

So I add to your post - thank you for your contribution Cameron. I have no problem with what the club offered and I have no problem with you going because you believe you can get an extra season or two out of Hawthorn. Thank you for your efforts Brock - You think that pastures are greener at Carlton - Carlton offered us a draft pick which we happily accepted and we all move on. No hard feelings on either of them.