nutbean

Agreed. I for one don't connect the trading of a pick and what we use the pick on. We did very well getting pick 11 for him. What we did with the pick is completely unrelated ( but truly horrible).

I was about to say the same. I applaud him for his love the club and wanting to do the right thing by it. You can put me in the same group - love and passion ! But you wouldn't be making me general manager of football for the same reason they shouldn't have given Chris that position.

He knows no boundaries.

And you would play all those players before him as you know they should have upside whereas we have seen all the Brock has to offer.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

No - no he is not clearly better than half our list but keep taking a swing at the club - I live for the slim hope that one day you may say something remotely positive about our club. Whilst he is not responsible for things that happened at the club either before of during his time - when he gave his candid opinions on one of the most watched football programs what did he think was going to happen. If he wanted a lesson in dignified responses maybe Brock should have taken a leaf out of Juniors book, who had much more reasons to unload on the club than Brock did. Brock - "better to keep silent and have people think you are a fool, rather than opening your mouth and removing all doubt".

saw the Whitlams at the corner last Friday night - they were great as usual - little did I know I would hear that song and then he would pass a week later

The profession as a whole has all but erased loyalty. I call players many things but the days of me labelling a player as loyal are over. Players will be "married" to a club if you can tick a few boxes - money, relationship with coach, chances of success - a combination of the 3. People label Nathan Jones as the probably the most loyal player at our club - the contract before last, by all reports he was strongly tempted by an Essendon offer. I would have thought a close second behind Jones on the "loyalty" scale would have been Trengove - but the club was ready to jettison him. A combination of players actions and club actions have made the notion of loyalty obsolete. Maybe I now have a different definition of loyal - as long as all that is important to a player is covered then he will be loyal to the club.

Just a question - how exactly do you know he is loyal ?

damned if you do, damned if you don't

Not too sure he wouldn't get that at any club..the clubs that are playing in finals year in and year out.

Thinking inside the box yielded us Toumpas instead of Wines. So there is no right and no wrong in this argument. To repeat Roos quote - "it's a raffle"

Yes yes and yes. I argued with all and sundry that Toumpas was the obvious choice over Wines for that exact reason. I will argue that the expert consensus was Toumpas was always a higher rated draft pick than Wines. Therefore on all expert consensus we did not select incorrectly. However - the expert opinions are almost always wrong.

You do understand that Jones is a player as opposed to us being supporters (redundant question). I fully understand players supporting other players irrespective of how we see it. Players are professional footballers and no matter how much we want them to think "club first" it is their livelihood and they will always more understanding about the trials and tribulations of their fellow players than we will. We write players off the minute they leave the club - players don't do that to fellow players. You only have to look at what I think was Josh Gibson wedding on the weekend with Buddy partying up with his ex team mates.

Well said... sort of makes of mockery of "don't get the picks wrong FFS " doesn't it

no... no we shouldn't

What I have learned is the experts are pretty close to correct on estimating at what pick a player WILL be selected. What they get wrong with alarming regularity is at what pick a player SHOULD be selected.

What I liked is his foot skills - if you watch lots of these highlights packages you see lots of targets being missed - some pretty ordinary footskills. Whilst I know the package is a best of - the kid doesn't miss a target.

Its interesting - I agree with what you are saying but then I throw Roos "they are too young and its a lottery " into the mix and I am not sure we shouldn't move away from groupthink. Our recruiters get lambasted over Toumpas but these experts had Toumpas as a top 3 pick and wines at 5 plus. Our recruiters get lambasted over Dustin Martin when Scully/Trengove where clearly rated one and two by all the experts. Then we have gone too early on Cook, Gysberts, Strauss and got burned. The only certainty is the Roos quote "its a lottery"

These are same blokes who said Toumpas was better than Wines. edit - have a look at the draft order for the top 10 over the past 10 years which have in the main gone to predictions of the experts - now do an exercise of grading the players from 1-10 from those drafts and it shows you that the experts may get the order pretty well right but the actuality of how these players perform dont match the order.

easy - count the registered posters on Demonland and divide by 2.

And they don't develop in the order they are selected either. Revisionist drafting would have Bontempelli as pick one from last year and Wines from the year before. There is a reason that Roos has said on countless occasions regarding drafting - "My thoughts are that they're too young the kids and it's too much of a lottery,"

this is all I get to see as well and couldn't agree more - if you hadn't heard and read the group think on where certain players would be drafted and saw the highlights of Lever and McCartin - you would hands down put Lever as a better choice.

Our number one priority needs to be turn a fair few of the those 9 " leading in the last quarters" last year into wins this season. We as supporters saw genuine improvement last year under Roos but that didn't translate on the scoreboard or in the wins column. We need to give any of these out of contract players concrete proof of the direction we are heading - it will making bagging one or two of them so much easier.

I thought, like you, that "permission to train" with a view to drafting in the PSD was routine ?