binman

"There's two teams out there today and only one of them's playing footy"

A lot of talk about culture of late. The culture of any organisation is not tested when you're flying. It's tested when under pressure and there are internal and external shocks. Let's see how ours stands up this season.

And threads - and posts - on demonland.

The media should stop using words and phrases like concussion and head knocks. They only serve to minimise what we are really talking about: Brain damage and brain trauma.

And the media took their sycophancy a step further with puff pieces painting Maynard as a top bloke with a heart of gold who was dead unlucky to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. The second victim of an unfortunate accident. Distraught. Kick to kick with a kid in the park. What a bloke. Flowers for the missus and wine for Gus. Sweetheart. Supposed to be on the downlow, but surprise, suprise, somehow the media get wind of it and dutifully report it. A soft ball interview with an emotional Maynard. Poor fella. The AFL wasn't going to allow the product to affected. A pies flag is gold. And the remora media, who also have their snouts in the pies trough, are more than happy to help out.

I respect your opinions HT, and see what you you are saying, but i strongly disagree with these points (with the exception of the bolded bit). Leaving aside the culpability of Maynard, and any anger i might feel towards him (which for me has dissipated and todays news hasn't really changed that) there is no doubt it was that incident that directly caused Gus to have to retire, not a cumulative effect of multiple head knocks. For one thing he hadn't a concussion in 5 years, as i understand it was regularly tested and was in good brain health. That hit, legal, or not, was akin to a car crash such was its severity. The only thing close i have seen on the footy field watching live is Matthews laying out Steve Smith at Princess Park. In the opening para of his letter to fans Gus makes it crystal clear the reason he has to retire is because of the Maynard hit (my bolded bit): 'Scans taken 2 weeks after the qualifying final against Collingwood compared to scans taken last week revealed further deterioration of my brain as a direct result of the incident I was involved in that September evening. This means that medically, I can no longer continue to play contact sports of any kind to protect my long-term health. Note: the context of the further deterioration he references is a comparison of a recent scan to one taken after the Maynard hit, not historical, cumulative damage levels. Today's not the day to debate the AFL's responsibility and role in this awful situation, suffice to say i absolutely think the AFL's inaction is a causal factor in the incident, as i have little doubt will soon be fully ventilated on court. Happy to come back to this discussion when emotions have cooled, because i think it is an important one and i couldn't agree more with Gus that a lot more needs to be done to address the scourge of concussion (and also with what i read as his implied criticism that not enough has been done, again my bolding): 'The issue of concussion is incredibly important for our game and industry to address over the coming years. We have made great strides in this space, but there is more that needs to be done to safeguard the brains of players not only in the AFL ranks, but from grassroots all the way up. I believe the future of our game will be strongly impacted by how we deal with this element of player safety as more information comes to light. I hope the AFL will be proactive in the future when it comes to the safety of its players as opposed to reactive, so we can continue to enjoy this amazing game and protect the brains of the players. They must be sacrosanct.'

Performative. The AFL put on a woeful case and then didn't appeal a ridiculously flawed decision.

Heart break for Gus. His teammates too. Super brave decision - but obviously the right thing for him though. CTE is a nightmare. Hard not think it will ultimately change the sport. Fir one thing, I'd go with goody's take, and flat out ban the bump. People will say it would change footy too much - but would it really? I mean how often does a bump actually achieve something other than rattling someone's cage? Tackling is almost always the better option than a bump in terms of say winning the ball back and/or preventing an opponent disposing of the ball. Thanks Gus for all you've given the club and fans.

Oh, yeah sure, I go out of my way to troll the dolts who think AFL footy hasnt moved on since 1994 and get triggered by something as non controversial as the impact of training loads on performance. By the way dazzler, you must be gagging for STMJ to start posting again. I mean, i have to say your face palm posse that trails me around the forum looks pretty sad (the company you keep and all that) and Steve would at least add some credibility.

100%. The impact of losing melk was underrated I reckon. On addition to his forward craft he would have negated the intercept marking of say Moore and weitering (or whichever defender he went to).

Jags with my feeling they were playing fatigued coming of a heavy training phase.

I mentioned that. My thinking was two fold. One, even if he has been working his backside off he still missed a chunk of preseason and the sort of match conditioning training might give him. That said he did look in good nick. But my concern more about taking the pressure off him and allowing him to ease into the season. But with all the press about us atm perhaps clarry wont get the attention he might have, so perhaps that's not such a worry. We'll get a good sense of where their thinking is at next week in terms of whether they pick him, and if they do if he starts and/r how many minutes he gets.

Spot on. Any dees supporter who was a fan in the late 70s to the late 80s knows what a woeful culture looks like - and this ain't it. I'll never forget RDB's reaction when he came home to the club to coach. He couldn't believe how bad the culture of the club had become. He was legitimately shocked.

A couple of levels of irony here. This is a thread started by a new poster asking posters to consider uniting behind our team and stop fighting amongst ourselves. The site owner follows up with a post noting he wholeheartedly agrees with this message of unity between fans You ask me this question: 'Surely even your confidence is a little dented watching this unfold? I answer your question respectfully ('no, not at all'). Then add some words i hoped might contribute to the spirit of this thread - lets unite behind one of the oldest and greatest sporting clubs in the world. Our club. I didn't ask you for any editorial feedback. But you gave it anyway. Waffle. Again, in the spirt of the thread, i didn't bite, and instead made a self deprecating joke. Again, I was not asking for any feedback But you gave it anyway. 'You fell a little short, about the English Channel gap' Perhaps you were trying to be funny and not trying to have another dig at me. Only you know the answer to that and frankly i don't care. But so there is no confusion, I didn't find it funny. The second level of irony? Claiming people are triggered by your suggestion we might slide. As i have noted i have not seen evidence of anyone being triggered by your assessment of where we are at. But I appear, for whatever reason, to trigger you. And if i were honest i find unnecessary rudeness, for example having a shot at me for no apparent reason in consecutive posts in a thread calling for unity, a little bit triggering. I don't get it. But each to their own i guess. So, for the sake of both of our mental health i'm popping you on ignore. Life is too short for silly back and forths on a footy forum. I'm telling you this because i don't want you to think I'm being rude when i don't reply to any more questions from you. Enjoy the season rooster. Go Redlegs

That's disappointing . I was aiming for Churchillian.

Good point. Would actually make a bit of sense - good way to get both Gus and Salo some mid time without losing anything defensively. Did you watch the last 3 periods of the scratch match? If so, thoughts on Salo as a mid?

He is a gun

In fact, some will find some pretzel logic to claim the pies losing actually makes our performance worse!

Ta. Do those players swap with each other? For example Sinclair comes from HB to the middle and Crisp takes his spot at HB? Will be interesting to See if Goody uses Salo the same way, and if so who he then might swap with (he wouldn't necessarily have to swap directly i guess, for example sparrow goes the bench, salo to the center and say bowser comes on and goes to HB) Nothing wrong with Goody taking a lead from other coaches, they have cribbed plenty of his notes too.

Not at all. The MFC is the oldest football club in the world. We have been around for over 160 years. That doesn't happen by accident. We are made of teak, not balsa. The history of sport is littered with examples of sports teams that channel being unfairly attacked and maligned and having their backs against the wall into the ultimate success. Hell, in 2021 we won a flag after failing to make the finals in 2020 and getting smashed from pillar to post - including by many on here (there are receipts). We were written off, given no chance of winning a flag at the start of 2021. Again, even by many on here. Even after winning 10 games straight, a mid season loading related slump saw the haters casting shade and writing us off. Including many on here. Backs against the wall, we proved the doubters and haters dead wrong. Overcame the odds, travelling to Adelaide for our first final and quarantine in Perth. And won the bloody flag. Beware the angry Dee with a point to prove. Bring it.

Umm, all the bloody time?

Great post sammy. I'm with you all the way. The fugazi? Bring it i say. Having supported the dees all my life the natural default is the media, friends and other footy fans bagging and ridiculing us. The snow jokes are oh so funny. Oh and do go on about volvos, cheese boards and golf clapping. Bring it i say. I've got my fair share of puerile needling from mates all preseason. Bring it i say. Let the media pile on. Let them them run with their click bait narrative. We're an easy mark. Bring it i say. Lets not confuse our chances of winning a flag and our our love for the club. For true supporters the two have nothing to do with each other. Anyone who posts on Demonland is by definition a supporter and cares for the club. Let the haters, hate. Avoid feeding the negativity and buying into the medias narrative and agendas And lets keep this thread focused on unity. Bring it i say.

I 100% agree with the bolded bit I'd add that it is possible to post constructive criticism of the club AND be positive about our chances. And that's the sort of analysis i prefer - ie balanced and not tilted to extremes. For example i have been very bullish about our chances in the last 3 seasons, but have also been very critical of our kicking skills (as i have been for many years). In my opinion our kicking skills was the number one reason we didn't finish higher than 4th (if say we finished first or second we would have played Port or the Lions at the G week one) and lost our two finals. But as an example of how I assess our chances and look for areas of improvement, one of the reasons i am bullish about our chances this season is that the club has actively looked to address this glaring weakness over the last few seasons. In 2023 they brought in Hunter, in large part because of his foot skills and they drafted the Juddster for the same reason. Ditto for Sestan. This year they traded in Billings becuase he is an excellent kick and IMO is a lock for round one. And they traded in McAdam who is another excellent kick. They drafted the Duke, who by all accounts is a brilliant kick, another lock for round one. And the Colt is another draftee with excellent foot skills. If Salem and Bowser both get a good run at it and get back to their best, Laurie cements himself in the side, Billings and Windsor come into the team, we have added five elite kicks to the team. I'd include JVR as an elite kick and Hunter and Koz both close to elite. So if all those players are in the side we have 8 elite or above average kicks. That's as many as the Pies have. Added to that, based on his beautiful kicking against the tigers, Viney appears to have once again improved his kicking after definitely doing so last season. Suddenly one of the clear advantages the Pies and Lions (and port and the Giants for that matter) had over us last season is negated, or at the least minimised. Hence my confidence we will finish top four.

If i was to guess rooster I would have thought you had us outside the 8. Sixth would bev slide, albeit not a calamitous one and good too see you think there's a chance we finish top of the ladder. I could absolutely see us finishing outside the 8, if like in 2019, we have a horror run with injury. The same is true of any side, including the pies. On maxy, I have been saying for at least 5 years that no one player is as important to a team's chances of success as maxy is to ours. If obviously depends when he got injured, but let's say he missed half a season I think our top 4 chanced are gone. Remarkably given his age, the same is true of the pies if nick daicos misses half the season, such is his importance to them (albeit not ad critical as maxy). However a reasonable counter argument is having maxy out for a block of time might create some positive outcomes - fast tracking verrll for example. I mean, we did pretty well with him not in the side last year. On the flaming, could I respectly suggest that just like the accusations of posters being triggered by what you see as valid criticisms of the club, there is perhaps an element of discouraging push back? Case in point, I think your commemt about 'the train wreck that this club has become over preseason' is hyperbolic and wildly inaccurate. Train wreck? C'mon. But I have no interest in having a dialogue about it because with that as a starting point it will go nowhere 'What else would you call it when......' Any dialogue would quickly descend into accusations of reflexively backing the club an refusing to see reality.

Seriously Roost, show me one example of a single poster saying success 'is just going to happen'. I'm not being facetious, but unless I've missed it I can't recall anyone saying anything vaguely like that. And perhaps I've also missed you being flamed for predicting we will slide. Push back sure, including from me, but flamed? To be clear no predictions about our fortunes in 2024 have been tested - a hit and giggle practice match notwithstanding. We don't know who will be closest to the mark yet. Your predictions of us going backwards may well prove to be correct. On that front, I note you haven't put your flag in the ground with the poll on where we will finish. A healthy 20% of respondents think we will miss the 8 amd and 40% think we will finish 5th to 8th. Which means the 60% agree with your assessment we are likely going backwards this season. That's to say, even if it doesn't feel like it, your views are shared by the majority of posters (yes, small sample, but I don't expect the percentages will change much). It also means that those, like me, who think we will remain one of the best four teams in the competition are in the minority.