binman

I'd add that chandler didn't kick a goals in either final, when goals were gold. Goals from small forwards often make a difference in big games - it's their time to shine. I hope he can go up a level, but I'm not convinced he will.

Dees fans, even those who think they were ill advised or plain wrong, should double down and really lean into maysie's comments. Add a dash of conspiracy - 'I've heard from a reliable source that Gill was obsessed with finishing his career as CEO with 100k plus crowd at the gf and put pressure on the tribunal to get Maynard off - the flag has a huge astrisk' Tell them the blues were a better team. Make some other merde up. Collectively troll the hell out of pies' fans. Psy ops.

Typo, which i thought was pretty obvious given the context and my comments about over rating the skills of oppo players). It should have read: I thought he was excellent this season - though his kicking wasn't as good as i had hoped

I know nothing.

Kate Roffey called on dees fans to get louder and MORE obnoxious 'like Collngwood fans'. To be honest, i'm not convinced we need more obnoxiousness at the footy, but i get what she was saying. Maysie was merely doing what the prez asked!

Great post. Some reflections on it: How a midfield is defined is a semantic exercise to a degree. But i think its a stretch to include the wingers given it is such a specialist position and don't really get involved at center clearances and around the ground stoppages - other than being an outlet distributor option. For example in your list above Sidebottom, Hunter and Langdon didn't attend any centre bounces all season (Sidebottom might have attended 2 or 3). Josh Daicos was also a winger (an AA winger at that) and only attended centre bounces when his brother went out of the team. You'll get no argument from me that Sidebottom and Josh Daicos are better kicks than Hunter and Langdon and were more impactful this year. You left out arguably their best mid, Taylor Adams, who attended 40% of all the Pies centre bounces over the season. Adams only averaged 52% by foot, which is in part a function of being an extractor and often kicking under pressure (something that makes Mitchell's 60% by foot super impressive given he is also an extractor). If you take out Sidebottom and Josh Daicos and add Adams the pies KE average goes down. I would add that of the Pies players you list Nick Daicos played more than half the season at half back flank and Pendlebury also spent large periods behind the ball, as did Crisp, which is a big factor in why their DE is so good (more time and space). And you included Max Gawn and Darcy Cameron's as mids. Rucks are not usually considered midfielders, but of course are part of the midfield, so for the sake of this exercise lets include them So, if you don't include Sidebottom, Josh Daicos, Hunter and Langdon, but DO include Cameron and Gawn, using your metric of including rucks and utilities who roll through the middle as midfielders: The Pies seven mids are: Cameron, Daicos, DeGoey, Pendles, Mitchell, Adams and Crisp (7 AA selections, with pendles having 6 of them) The equivalent seven mids for the dees are: Gawn, Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw, Sparrow, and for the sake of argument James Jordon (12 AA selections) I 100% agree the Pies seven are better kicks over all than our seven mids. And i also 100% agree we need to bring in a quality distributor with elite kicking skills and one or two utilities of Bailey and Mcluggage's ilk who can kick goals and reliably hit targets by foot. I have said as much in several posts of late, including this post in the What's needed in 2024 thread. In fact I've been banging on about this ever since i started posting on DL 10 plus years ago. For example, i was strongly in favor of taking Kelly rather than trading pick 3 out and ending up with Salem, Hunt and Tyson instead. And for the same reason i was against trading Watts out. But kicking efficiency is of course only one metric to determine the relative strength of midfields. And arguably not a particularly useful one. From the 14 players listed above the top four for average: center clearances per game are (in order): Oliver, Viney, Petraca and Pendles stoppage clearances per game: Oliver, Petracca, Mitchell and Gawn contested possessions per game: Oliver, Petracca, Viney and Gawn metres gained per game: Tracc, Daicos, Oliver and Crisp (nb: Daicos' numbers are inflated by the fact he takes most of their kick outs) score involvements per game: Tracc, Daicos, Oliver and Adams goal assists per game: Adams, Tracc, Pendles, Viney goals per game are: Tracc, Daicos, Adams, Sparrow Perhaps of most value in terms of determining who has the better midfield is the AFL player ratings, a metric that the industry apparently values very highly. The top 4 rated players from the 14 listed above are (in order): Tracc, Oliver, Daicos and Gawn. The upshot of all that is i don't think the numbers support the assertion Collingwood’s midfield is/was better than ours this year.

Bollocks. Leaving aside the fact that clarry missed half a season, a starting midfield of maxy, oliver, tracc, viney with Gus and sparrow as back up is the best midfield in the afl. Just look at the annual midfield award, the brownlow, tracc didn't win it because viney got 24 votes and before he got injured Oliver got votes. Leaving aside the ruck, our best 4 mids collectively got 60 votes (with our best missing half a season). By way of contrast Neale got 31 votes of the 47 votes their best 4 mids got (noting Ashcroft missed half a season - it says something aboot the lions midfield though that a first year player pllled the second most votes for a mid). And the pies had 63 votes, but daicos got probably aprox 20 of his 28 votes playing at half back flank. Port got 64 votes between rozee, butters and Horne Francis. But whilst all three are super impressive they are still young and in oliver and tracc we are talking about, what, 7 AA selections between them, god knows how many best and fairest (6?) and both already are considered amongst the best mids of the modern era. And on top of all that we have the best ruck of the modern era, and the best ruck in the AFL to feed our mids. Our whole game is based around the relative strength of our midfield in the sense that it allows us to play one less at stoppages to either put ahead of the ball in an attacking spot or an extra behind the ball. I'm pretty sure we are the only team that sets up this way. By contrast the pies and lions bring an extra to stoppages. Despite have less players at stoppages we were still sixth in the AFL for clearances, just behind port and ahead of the blues (whose game plan revolves around winning clearances) and the pies (who bring extras up). In fact I would argue we were over invested in pure mids and need a better balance - more like the lions and pies with more outside distributors. So no issue losing JJ.

I wasn't having a shot at you dd. And many wouldn't have picked him to finish top 10 - chronically under rated player. Well, not by the coaches and players, just fans. How did I go with my predictions? Picked the top 10 in order. Edit: picking the top 10 in order was meant to be a joke.

Nibla 6th.

Whitfield would have been great, but i am surprised at how how much heat Hunter has copped. I thought he was excellent this season - though his kicking was as good as i had hoped (it's funny how easily is it to over rate the skills of players from other clubs - i mean it makes sense, i don't watch other teams' game as intently or often as i do the dees - but its a bit like draft highlights)

No ANB?

This is a key point ie needing some players who can pierce zone defence by foot. Create scoring chains, but as importanty not turn it over Teams have needed such players, not heaps of them but at least 2 or 3, for a few years but the pressure and intensity in games has gone up a level and such players are more crucial than ever. We saw how important they are with Coleman's final series. Salo and Bowser played that role in 2021. Neither was as effective this year. Hopefully we bring at least one such player in, but regardless it will be critical salo has an uninterrupted and strong preseason. He never got close to his best this season and we really need a fit, firing salo.

Point of views?

I posted this in the rumors thread prior to the Grand Final, but it's a better fit here: If I were in charge of recruitment I'd be focusing on getting in: - one or two quality high half forwards who are elite athletes and decent kicks (ie two more nibblers - who by the by was our best kick inside 50 this year in terms of kick to score ratio). Bedford would be ideal (yes I know he ain't going anywhere) - a mid size half forward/utility/mid who is an elite athlete, above average to elite kick, wins their own ball and kicks goals (the player type I'm thinking of is McCarthy and Bailey from the lions. Sparrow is our equivalent. We need more sparrows) - a distributor from half back (or wing or outside mid) with elite kicking and decision making skills who can reliably execute difficult, high risk kicks - even under intense pressure (salo and bowey have been these players for us, but for diff reasons neither were able to play that role to the required level this season. I'm thinking of players like locasious, Coleman and anderson) - a second ruck (I've got no idea who) On the second point it is worth noting that in the Grand Final: McCarthy and Bailey both kicked 2 goals and their combined 4 goals was nearly a third of the lions' 13 goals Add Hugh McCluggage's 2 goals (he also had a match high 3 goal assists) and Robertson's goal and more than half of the lions goals were kicked by mid sized non permanent forward utility types Half of Collingwood's 12 goals came from their midfielders Our forward line 'issues' are a furphy IMO. All of our regular forwards, including Petty, are excellent set shots and pretty good from general play too. The key issue, IMO, is the poor execution and lack of goals and goal assists from our mids and utilities (wingers, flankers etc).

Perhaps no comment is an indication of our strategy? Which I hope involves giving clarry a massive rocket and wake up call. Like every dees fan I would be shattered if clarry left. But there was plenty of publically available evidence of lack of professionalism on his part this year. Applying the iceberg principle there was no doubt more stuff not in the public arena. Another year of distractions could torpedo next season and beyond. For goody it is all about creating a team that is contention every year. Culture underpins that goal. Crossroads for clarry me thinks. I was absolutely against trading out Watts. But I acknowledged the club had all the info and respected the right of goody to make the call. And hard to argue it wasn't the right call. I'll put my trust in the club to make the right call again.

A better gag than letting a degenerate work mate move in would have been something about having to manage another kid.

Tom is the Oscar of the Fogarty family

Bit old now. His best, playing for CCR, was some time ago now - though he was good in centrefield. So, don't put him in coach, he's not ready to play.

Agree, and to further improve the shape we're in, We best chase that big fella Flynn.

I don't care who we take with our first pick, So long as that player is an elite kick.

Inside mid would be my guess.

My comparison early this season to joey kennedy having to go to Sydney to get minutes has proven prophetic! (Nb: not saying jj is in Kennedy's class, just that the scenarios are similar ie mid who can't break into a star studded midfield)

Can kitty Coleman, Noah Anderson or Jack Lukosius ruck?

Well, i'll wager both will finish top 10 in the bluey. A couple more top 10 players can't hurt!