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Stef doesn't have the smarts to go with Goodes. It's not just enough to follow him around, at stoppages he would be murdered.

If you really want to lay down a challenge, put Watts on him when he is in the middle. But then again we have been told he won't be playing round 1. Otherwise, Bail for mine. And Garland when he goes forward.

Tomorrow

he looks slow yet hes not.

runs a 42(i think) 400m, well he used to....

The world record is 43.18

Lets go through these one by one shall we....

It's not good enough to drift aimlessly through the season but that's where we seem to be heading if the last three games are any indication.

Not sure how you came to this conclusion. But it's your opinion. On that basis though, geez Geelong are going to be horrible. And Freo are taking a massive step backwards. It's pre-season. Lets take a deep breath. There is no need to go 110% for 4 quarters in a game that means diddly squat. And also...did you have a telecast of the game tonight? Because you seem to have been able to read quite a lot into some words on a screen.

We draft players like Watts, Blease, Strauss & Morton because they have sublime skill but no heart. You can never teach courage and mongrel none of these players will ever have either of these traits cause they have never shown it in there life. Then you have a look at who Collingwood draft. Drawes, Sidebottom, Beams & Wellingham all players that aren't scared of body contact.

Another example from Collingwood. Dale Thomas. When drafted he was as [censored] scared as anybody on a football field. Maturity and experience have brought him a tougher edge to his game, and maybe even a bit of courage and mongrel. Previously, I doubt he had ever shown it in his life.

If we are in the business of singling out players to try and make a compelling argument, then lets look at the other side of this. Melbourne have drafted the likes of Grimes, Bail, Tapscott, Jetta, McKenzie & Trengove - all players that aren't scared of body contact.

Depends which way you look at it really. Depends which handful of players you decided to choose to make your argument seem feasible.

And where is the significant improvement from Bennell, Watts, Blease, Strauss, Tapscott, Gysberts. All these players look too comfortable or seem to losing their battle against injuries.

Wow. That's a little bit rich. I could write a paragraph on each, but I will just choose the most stupid for now.

Blease - Really? The kid has managed to get back from a pretty terrible injury and make it out on the park. What kind of improvement are you expecting to see? Actually...from what base are you starting at? Hard to gauge improvement when the kid has barely had a chance to step across the white line. If you are disappointed that he hasn't played every single pre season game - its called player management.

Tapscott - Really? From all reports he was quite good last week for his first ever hit out at senior level and from the snippets tonight he seemed okay. Now sure how you can judge improvement again on a player who hasn't had the chance to kick a ball in anger in a proper AFL match.

Gysberts - Really? He has played what, 3 games? If you want improvement, he is going to need to average over 20 odd disposals a game this year. In my opinion he looked pretty good last year...and correct me if I'm wrong, but dont you think its fair that he at least has a chance to have a crack in 2011 before he is judged to have not improved?

Great call. If Simon Buckley can improve enough to get a game in a premiership team (I know it's pre season but they have a fairly strong team in and i wouldn't be surprised if he played some handy games for them this year.

I would be surprised if he played a game for them this year.

Meaningless to the supporters but to the players I reckon they were expecting more this pre season.. It's not the amount we lost by it's the way we lost. Not winning clearances no tackling in the forward line. Very deflating for the boys I'm sure

Do you have access to some kind of stats that none of us have been privy to? Or vision? Another with in depth knowledge of how the game panned out without actually seeing it.

I've already got that in. And I'm using your final 6 method.

Thing is, should we do 18 rounds (2 games against each team) or 21 (same as 18 with three extra random games)?

Play each other twice in my opinion if you want to run with a fixture.

Yeah we have a little while to get a good system up and running and agreed upon. It should be kept very simple like you have suggested Roger. No need to complicate it.

Hopefully we get some input from those involved in the coming weeks.

You're right, but what I'm talking about isn't an actual league on the Supercoach site - just a private league of sorts which only has 18 players and 10 teams.

If you are thinking of creating like a fixture over the season I dont think there is a need. I just think a total score basis over the whole season would be best - as it would in a way even out for injuries etc over the course of the year. Unlucky if you get some LTI but thats luck of the draw. Would be interesting to see how teams go.

Probably whatever's easiest - the League would work everything out for you but probably wouldn't accept teams with only 18 players? Is that right?

And as I mentioned the positional/salary cap issues.

Eth, all yours. I wouldn't have time to do it anyway for everybody - your call if you want to do that. Agreed that supercoach is a better scoring system. I recommend fanfooty like I mentioned earlier, would be the best and easiest way to grab all the scores in my opinion.

Too difficult to set up a dream team due to the limitations of salary cap, player positions etc.

If those who were involved wanted to keep tabs on how each team would score each week maybe individually those who want to can just quickly add up their score and post it in. Wouldnt take too long using fanfooty as your resource for scores.

Then maybe at end of each round we have one post to summarise the total scores to date for each team and continue this over the whole season to get a final winner come the end of the season.

You ask some very valid things in your opening thread.

To me, and I am different to most- I think it is a great time for coaches to try to get the players to implement what the pre season is all about, try young players and implement strategies if current plan is not working.I thought the coaching department let down the club and it's supporters yesterday as the day-game was a nothing, excepting maybe gaining some match practice into several players. I attended match and afterwards left very disappointed,not that we lost , that we did not optimise the time.

Not to be rude...but how do you know the club didn't optimize the time yesterday? Maybe they did everything they wanted to do, maybe more.

Hi Everyone .... My first post!

I was at the game yesterday and the thing that struck me was the lack of leadership. It seemed to me that this is where the game was one and lost. I watched Sylvia being very judicious in deciding when he would compete, backing away from the contest on a number of times. I saw other experienced players pull out or just jog if they thought that the contest was too far away. I reckon a lot of the experienced players were doing "just enough" to keep the game ticking along whilsty the youngsters tried for the few spots available. IMO this contributed as much the the overall display as the lack of experience.

Welcome aboard Deefor. That is pretty much as you would expect from what is just a glorified practice match. There is no need to go like a bull at a red rag and risk injury, whilst the kids and those on the fringe do need to give 110% to try to put up their hand for a regular season gig.

I don't think there was any doubt we have a long way to go, but we have to remember it is only pre season. Teams very rarely play in the regular season as they do in the pre season.

Is there parking available at Visy Park/Optus Oval/Princes Park?

Lockett Back, Frawley forward

Dermie back, Langford Forward

Lloyd back, Fletcher Forward

Breath in, Breath out...just a touch of patience perhaps.

Off-centre ideas are fine...While I disagree with the Watts thing vehemently, I can personally understand out of the box suggestions. But moving an all-australian calibre player from one of the most important positions on the ground is insane

Chippa is already a player who should be written in indelible ink at FB/CHB in the Melbourne side for at least the next 200 games. Leave him there to dominate

Agree completely. He is by far our best defender. No point robbing Peter to pay Paul or whatever that saying is.

Our forward line is extremely functional as is, the issue is getting it in there.

Believe we are being shipped off to the Gold Coast according to Ricky Petterds twitter.

Feel for the boys last nite! Upside we play on the goldy.

Petterd definitely not playing - on his twitter.

So you're placing the blame on a vulnerable 17 y/o, and not on the 47 y/o man who went to her hotel room with alcohol in hand?

Interesting conclusion isn't it. Especially considering Nixon himself stated that she was very vulnerable back when the photo fiasco was occurring.

Doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Scumbag of the highest order. You would have to be insane to managed by this bloke.

All clubs do it mate, known as 'Community Camp'

Have you played Supercoach?

Was going to ask exactly that question. Some players just don't score high in supercoach but can have a big impact on a match.

Unrelated, but has anyone considered the fact that in 2009, the young, non-AFL player/Richmond supporting Tom Scully was watching the round 18 Melbourne V Richmond match with his Dad? They were likely well aware that Scully would be considered for the no.1 draft selection, and that the McMahon kick after the siren could potentially be the difference between joining the Dees and his beloved Tigers.

Imagine the scene - McMahon trots in, kicks..... and goal!!! After that kick, while many Melbourne fans were celebrating, the Scully family would probably have been on the floor in agony.

Just a thought.

Now, back to your bickering folks.

Wow. Just....wow. Just a thought.

Surely this can now be closed considering the statement made by Scullys manager?

I would have thought Dunn should top this list after his repeated 50m+ goals last year.

Davey doesn't register many from that distance.

Agree. Dunn and Beamer on the run are the obvious candidates for me. Even Jones on the run.

He is in the background of picture 19 from the intra club gallery here - http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/gallery-e6frf9o6-1225999604981?page=19

You can notice arms have bulked up but not defined and legs looking a bit stronger

I think I'll leave it to others to decide who's what.

Don't bother Robbie. Suggest you have a read of the Breaking Demonland News thread wolf.

To calm all the troops here I asked Cam about the jumpers. His reply...

"The colour isn't quite right. New Balance are sorting. They look a little crimson. Bit of trial and error with new fabrics."