Slartibartfast

He was pretty good for Adelaide and I reckon he will do well for us. I fear for JT. I always thought he was a big man in a small man's body. Great in the air but didn't get it at ground level enough. Now he doesn't get it in the air. He was due to sign a new contract after the Geelong game in 2011. As a result of that game his manager suggested he wait but Jack insisted on signing as a show of support for the club. He's been a favourite ever since. I really hope he gets his mojo back.

Many thanks Jack.

Sorry Sat, but I do. He's done well and I like him but he's not an AFL footballer yet.

How do you think Trengove, Scully, Watts, Grimes, Morton and Gysberts would have gone? We've made mistakes, that's obvious, but we've not got anywhere near the best from what we've had. FWIW I think Prendergast made two fatal mistakes. First is he didn't select "genuine" midfielders and second he didn't/couldn't identify competitiveness.

At least on that we can agree. But you remind me of someone else who always quotes stats to support his view but when they don't he says "I rely on what I see and make my own judgements". It's a great danger because it's usually wrong.

It's time to get a bit more demanding Nash!

I agree regarding "getting ahead of ourselves". But the joke is about Carlton, not us, and if we were only to beat one team this year I'd have chosen Carlton.

What on earth have "tackle counts" got to do with disposal efficiency of a player (which is what we were discussing)? And of course now you're saying the tackle count is an ineffective measure, despite Roos saying that it was the most important statistic we had on Saturday, If McKenzie didn't have the skill level of an AFL footballer how come he has a higher possession rate than Crowley and an effective disposal rate the equivalent of AFL footballers? The reality is your opinion of McKenzie is not supported by measurable identifiers and you're too stubborn to recognize that. Well, I'll assume it's stubbornness for now.

It's both, obviously, but I think it's more a failure to develop than recruit. You've listed a lot of players who have not made it but more to the point is those who every recruiter would have drafted that have gone nowhere. Watts, Trengove, Tapscott, Blease, Strauss and Grimes are all players who would have been drafted with the expectation of developing into really good footballers but who, to this stage at least, haven't. Clearly players develop when surrounded by elite players and coaches, Geelong is the perfect example. Guthrie and Murdock are just two examples of players who would be miles behind where they are now if we had drafted them. The lack of mature bodied leaders with "good habits" has cost us as much if not more than poor drafting.

Now you're being silly. The stats don't support you. And comparing him to Nathan Jones is just proving the points Nutbean and I are making. But you probably don't understand that.

The knock on McKenzie's disposal is overstated. He has a disposal efficiency of over 70% in 2013 where he played as a tagger and got the ball in pressure situations. It was higher than players such as McLean and Melksham who played in finals teams and is very similar to Montagna. His disposal efficiency on the weekend was over 90% and he was involved in scoring assists for our second and third goal. His kick to Frawley in the first was a ripper. He's not fashionable, I get that, but he's effective in the job he does and he's clean with the ball. If the midfield goes past him then that's good for us but I think under Roos he'll have a role for a while yet.

6. Tom McDonald 5. Nathan Jones 4. Jack Viney 3. James Frawley 2. Rohan Bail 1. Daniel Cross

And for Hannibal.. No Jordie, no Melbourne.

Thanks Jack. Surely Aiden Riley had a tackle!

I've met his Dad and I know someone who has known him for some time. He's a ripping bloke, not the problem as far as I could tell. Cale thought he was the smartest bloke in the room, never listened to the coaches, probably needed to go to somewhere like the Swans, Hawks or Cats to have the arrogance beaten out of him.

I hear what you're saying but there are too many players that haven't developed to be coincidence. Trengove would have been in every teams top 3 picks in his year. Morton also, some clubs had him number 1. You can go on. It's not all development and it's not all drafting, it's got to be a combination of both. I think our major opportunity was in 2008 when we clearly identified the wrong type of player. We needed genuine mids and instead went for talented flankers. We could have had Shuey, Redden (or Beams), Sloane and Rockliff (although he was not seen as a genuine mid). Instead we went for skilled kicking flankers in Blease, Strauss, Bennell and Jetta. That's the draft that makes me cry.

"Finally Kingy Makes Sense". He always made sense. Most just wouldn't listen.

Lyon and Roos know each other well. I reckon in this situation there would be a bit of honour.

If he wants to do the best thing by us then he would remain on the list on some reduced salary and then allow us to trade him to the Dockers for some compensation next year. That way he could be assured of getting there (which he can't through the draft). Sad situation.

My source had the internal club stats.

I've no problem with Richmond declining to disclose what is wrong with Deledio and I don't really have a problem with them declining to say when he'll be back. The problem is if they say next week and it's 3 or 4.

I agree Nut. Riley is a tackling machine and a really hard at it mid and I'm keen to see him. Always held out more hope for him than Michie who has struggled to have any influence. Spoke to someone in the know yesterday who said 11 of our players laid 4 tackles between them on Sunday. Cross laid 12. Embarrassing. McKenzie and Riley will be welcome additions to the team when fit as whilst they are not glamorous they are tough, they have a go and they tackle. I reckon Ro Bail has got a really bad rap here. He's a bottom best 22 player and yet people are judging him on the basis he has to be better than that. He runs all day, he get the ball (which players like Byrne, Howe, Michie and a few others don't) and when he does get it he runs forward trying to create. There isn't a player in the team who hasn't butchered the ball this year and Bail is far from the worst. And not many have created play like Bail did for the JKH goal on Sunday which was about our best play of the season. Bail started it. He won't be a world beater but he has a go, he runs all day, he's tough at the ball and his skills aren't as bad as being portrayed here. He played loose in defence in the 4th quarter last week and did well. Under the "lets throw them about" strategy of Roos this week I reckon there is a good chance he'll play spare in defence or midfield.

Well since I posted my OP I must say I've been pretty impressed with the communication from the club. The weekly session with Paul Roos is very good. I don't think we learn much that isn't available elsewhere but the fact that the segment runs provides a good snapshot of what is going on and what the coach is (publicly) thinking. And I'm hoping for a player summary after the Casey game this week. And maybe it's just me but the injury reports seemed a little more circumspect with more realistic return dates for Hogan and Dawes. Well done MFC, lets bounce back this week and put some fun back into footy!

The disruption to the preseason of so many critical players has already cruelled our season. They may play but they will not influence in the way you'd want. Having said that, it will be nice to have them back if it happens. I'm in the camp that will believe it when I see it.

We differ, don't worry about it. I believe that if Roos can't get substantial improvement this year and provide hope then we face a difficult future. TV will complain because nobody want to watch the rubbish we produce, supporters and members will have had enough, corporate sales will deteriorate and we will be a huge problem for the AFL. With a supportive AFL wanting to solve a problem I wonder how much of the immeasurable water to flow under your bridge will evaporate. We are controlled by the AFL now, Jackson and Roos are AFL men and so is Bartlett. We survive at their discretion. I'm happy to apologise if you can show me where in this thread I've offended without cause. If you're referring to some previous encounter I'd suggest you just move on.