old dee

I was speaking to someone at the club earlier this year, and i think there are thoughts to try and develop him into second ruckman to Jamar. He is not as big as Jamar but has the capacity to get bigger muscle wise. What brings him down mostly is his goal kicking, so as a second ruckman, he wont be wasting the oppurtunities. Thoughts?

Interesting Idea, Not as silly as it sounds. Played ok at Casey last weekend.

He currently has a lot better basic skills than Spencer and PJ.

If it is a goer we should see him play in the ruck a lot more for Casey.

Both of Strauss injuries have been contact as far as I am aware.

Wonna's last injury ...shoulder is a contact injury.

Without elevations onto the main list we need to cut minimum 3 from the list.

Do you reckon they might rookie Wonna at year end?

It might be his only salvation!

I think he is in real danger of being cut.

Yep,,, We really need to get a couple of AFL games into these 2 this year to recharge their batteries, of hope. Especially Straussy, I feel...It would be nice to see them both IN,,, for the last couple of games of the Year, to give them something to carry over the summer.

They both worry me, I have seen plenty of examples of players over the years that are injury prone.

This pair seem to fit the mould.

More so Wona but I have a horrible gut feel thay will never reach their full potential.

From what I have seen ( Including Casey ) Wona has played 4 -5 good games not great games over 3 years ).

He may be close to the end by August, Strauss has the luxury of a little more time.

Remember 4 - 5 players have to be cut at the end of the year!

I really liked his game on the weekend. I thought it was a really positive step for him to compete with a guy like Gardiner and look pretty good against him in ruck contests.

The co-ordination with really tall players can often take time. As they grow they have more control over their limbs and he's starting to fill out. This is something that will naturally improve with time.

What he does have is really good aggression for the ruck contests and great competitiveness. As the game becomes more about the quick transitions and games played at high speed, the role of a ruckman around the ground becomes less important. What is important is their ability to influence the contests in close through aggression and bodywork, just like Jamar has been doing this year. Spencer works hard around the stoppages and is actually very good in ruck contests, which is unusual this early in a project ruckman's career.

Look at Darren Jolly, the poster boy for aggressive tap ruckmen, in his first games and see how effective he was in the ruck. He played 22 games in his first 2 years, averaging 5.2 hitouts per game. Jake is younger than Jolly at that point is his career and is averaging 11.4 hitouts per game, include games of 16, 20 and 17 (this weekend) hitouts, all of which were better that any of Jolly's first 22 games.

As for disposals, it wasn't until 2008 that Jolly averaged more than 10 disposals a game. Spencer averages 6.9 at the moment, which isn't too bad for a player of his style at this stage of his career and his age.

People judge these sorts of players far too early. He looks uncoordinated, so people automatically judge that he's no good and no amount of what he actually does will change their opinion. I think Spencer was good on the weekend for the most part, very promising at stages, and I'm very happy with how he is progressing.

You have my vote the above says it all with Jake and if we can give the likes of PJ and Jamar a number of years surely we can invest another year or two in Spencer.

Has anyone read the " Player review" on the MFC website?

I am surprised we lost hardly any player got a poor rap.

I must have been watching the wrong game.

On the basis of that anyalsis there will be very few changes.

Best I can see on that basis is Sylvia in and if Cheney suspended than perhaps Bail.

Seems the rest were ok!

Pity we lost!

OUT - Grimes ( Inj), Jetta, Scully, Jones, Bennel

IN - Sylvia, Jurrah, Bail, Morton, Mcdonald if ok.

I thought we held our own in the first half however after that were very ordinary.

I do not think we have improved on last year.

We need to beat Essendon next week, if we don't then we have come no were so far this year.

I am surprised to say it but Watts earned his spot this week there were 5-6 that did not contribute much yesterday.

Scully should be rested he has been poor since Darwin he has not earned his spot the last three weeks.

He is a good player but needs a run at Casey to get back his form.

Cheney produced what I expected ( Very little )1 more week

Spencer I keep hoping but my confidence is fading. 1 more week

Bennel Poor back to Casey

Jones poor back to Casey

Forgot Jetta Poor back to Casey

That should leave room for a few promtions

I thought we held our own in the first half however after that were very ordinary.

I do not think we have improved on last year.

We need to beat Essendon next week, if we don't then we have come no were so far this year.

I am surprised to say it but Watts earned his spot this week there were 5-6 that did not contribute much yesterday.

Scully should be rested he has been poor since Darwin he has not earned his spot the last three weeks.

He is a good player but needs a run at Casey to get back his form.

Cheney produced what I expected ( Very little )1 more week

Spencer I keep hoping but my confidence is fading. 1 more week

Bennel Poor back to Casey

Jones poor back to Casey

Hey Old Dee, I guess a point I was making is that the performance of competitive sports people is derived from attaining the optimal balance between arousal (intent) and clarity (decision making). Slow starts, playing better against higher ranked teams and worse against lower ranked teams seems to be the result of a young team not knowing how manage their own balance. Instead their balance is derived from events out of their control, i.e. the opposition, the ground, 1st quarters, teammates sparking them, etc... Good players are able to internally generate and find this optimal balance between arousal and clarity, get into the zone and stay in it for longer...

I don't know how you train young player to find and maintain this balance but I imagine it is something Bailey and Co are working on. Top level tennis players hone this skill and demonstrate that the ratio of arousal:clarity differs with different personality types i.e Hewitt (high arousal = best tennis) vs Federa (moderate arousal = best tennis), but i may be wrong.

You may well be right, thanks for the insite. I must admit a few of these new ideas have passed me by.

So I won't waste my time going on Sunday because all the signals I get from Bailey and company are this is a "tuning" game that we do not expect to win or get close.

Probally better I go and watch Casey at Werribee ( which is not a long way for me .) That might sound cynical but that is the message I get.

If this time next year we have a 50+% win rate I will know you were right, Bailey is a genius and I am a dill.

Hope you are both correct.

What am I expecting?

A slow start where we look totally outclassed.

Much better second and third quarters so that at three quarter time we're actually in with a show.

Dominating the first ten minutes of the last quarter but unable to score a goal.

Fading to lose by 38 points.

What am I hoping for?

A brilliant first quarter where we kick 9.9 to one solitary point.

A solid second quarter where we pot a lazy seven goals to two.

A sloppy third quarter where we let them in for four goals, but we still score five thanks to Matthew Warnock scoring three consecutive running, bouncing goals.

A masterly last quarter. They don't get the ball in their 50 metre zone. We score 10.2. The crowd goes crazy. Ross Lyon says we are the best team ever. St Kilda players ask for Jared Rivers' autograph.

I suppose we can all dream "Demonised" I am expecting a lot less than you. I hope that on Sunday night you can call me a Dick---- But I think a min. 60 point loss is coming.

Read Bailey interview about remedying slow starts And I think I have the solution. In the warm up for the Brissie game I noticed Moloney in the cue behind McDonald giving his captain a series of hearty whacks to his arse... true. Both players started well...

Predman I just read it and the overpowering feeling I had was that he was not that concerned,

"We looked at a couple of main things in the warm-up. We'll probably trial some of that again,"

"We don't want to change all of it, just throw it all out and start again. That's the wrong message to send. We'll keep working at it, but we don't want it to be a massive thing."

Excuse Me! "we don't want it to be a massive thing." I suggest that unless we fix this we are not going anywhere fast.

And that is a massive thing for me.

The feeling I got from the article was all is going well we just need to tinker a bit.

I wonder about Bailey, there had better be a lot better results by this time next year or it may be all over for Bailey.

On the bench for Casey this week.

THANK YOU REDLEG.

Still do not understand why he was never on the injured list however back in action so that is good.

well mate, they ARE playing. They're in the 18 and the Club's Release makes it plain that they're both in. So there's at least one other out from last week.

It's high time that Cheney got a game

I am not a fan but after last week they could hardly keep him out.

Cheney unfortunately I think falls into that group that are good VFL palyers but average at best AFL players.

However he deserves his spot. Hopefully he will get a couple of weeks to prove me wrong.

I think the players to drop out will be the last three as listed Miller Warnock and Maric.

Millar has been poor the last couple of week,

Warnock was dropped a few weeks back and got back at Cheneys expense ( and a fine to the MFC )So I think he will get a rest,

Do not know why Maric was named he has done nothing at Casey.

AS some others have asked is Syvlia still injured or is he coming back via Casey! My memory reminds me he was not playing all that well

before he got injured.

I think Spencer should get a run we need another ruckman and we need to find out if he has anything to offer.

If we can play Watts week after week than surely Spencer deserves a go.

Well if he's not injured, he's not playing and he is contracted then where is he? Someone said a few weeks ago on here that he played at Casey and was dreadful so maybe he has a virus or something; does that constitute injured?

Spot on "RobbieF" what is the story? this is really frustrating, where the hell is he and what is the story?

I have contacted the club and the silence from them is deafening?

I don't get it or I am missing something!

Jurrah is not even remotely ready to play. He's played one game at Casey and it was a shocker. I want to see him show some of his old brilliance and also a little desire for the ball before we bring him back. Worse for me than his poor form was the lack of interest he showed. As with several of his pre-season games this year, he walked around the ground as if he wanted to be anywhere else and stood there watching the game go by when the ball wasn't coming directly to him. Every person on this board who liked to bag Robbo about his lack of accountability and second efforts should be backing me on this. Robbo was never that bad. Something has changed in Jurrah's attitude since last year and until he gets it back he should be staying at Casey.

I went to the game at Willy however I must have been at a different game to you as I though he was ok for a guy who had not played since february and was his first game back from a very serious injury.

He was played well forward in the first half and the ball did not get up there much.

He looked to be having a red hot go to me, his touch was not there but I saw nothing that suggested poor attitude.

There was no Casey game last week so to select him this week seems a little early to me.

At least two mor weeks at Casey for mine.

So where's Stef Martin?

Isn't he supposed to be injured as well?

I have the same question where is Stef Martin?

No one seems to know!

I emailed the club a few days ago asking this question and no reply.

Is this a code that I am missing?

Has he gone walk about and no one is saying so!

DOES ANYONE KNOW?

I like it! I'm so old I was at the '64 GF. You'd better order 2 copies. GASP!

(By the way, we are a LONG way off being a genuinely good side. We have a number of players who arguably are not good enough to play in a good to very good side: Warnock, Bartram, Rivers, Miller, Dunn, ...)

Please bring in: Gysberts, Cheney, Junior

Yes Prof there are still a few of us going around.

I live in hope however days like last sunday make me wonder.

Carn' the Dees!

loving the reminiscing there guys, us young folk can only dream of such a day.

I am still dreaming "4Jack" of the second, it has been a long time between drinks.

I was there as well in '64 - where were you sitting ?

I was in the front row of the MCC members - as a full junior member.

Got there at sparrow's fart of course - what a day.

Wasn't a paid up MFC member back then, but have been for a lot of the rest, since.

I look forward to a repeat of that event, in a couple of year's time.

This team has the nucleus to get us there !

Only difference, is I will be the "old guy" who was sitting next to me that day and [censored] his pants, when Gabalich made the run to put the Maggies in front and then Froggy Crompton came storming out of the back line to kick the winning goal - Nothing like winning a flag and this group (in spite of yesterday) is starting to know that too !

Good God I thought I was the oldest person on Demonland!

I was in the standing room, forward pocket , Ricmond end in the old Southern.

My dad and I ( 15 )got there when the gates opened and stayed all day.( you got three games in those days )

You could not get out as you would lose your spot.

We are soft now!However I would do it right now for another win.

just as an indicator of how few games some of our lads really have had :

Bail, Rohan - 4

Bartram, Clint - 71

Bate Matthew - 79

Bennell, Jamie - 27

Blease, Sam - 0

Cheney, Kyle - 12

Fitzpatrick, Jack - 0

Frawley, James - 52

Garland, Colin -31

Gawn, Max - 0

Grimes, Jack - 25

Gysberts, Jordan - 3

Jetta, Neville - 20

Jurrah, Liam - 9

Maric, Addam - 11

Martin, Stefan - 29

McNamara, Tom - 3

Morton, Cale - 45

Petterd, Ricky - 35

Scully, Tom - 12

Strauss, James - 0

Tapscott, Luke - 0

Trengove, Jack - 12

Watts, Jack - 9

Wonaeamirri, Austin - 20

with a few exceptions theres not a lot of miles in those legs ( collectively )

as the OP suggests..add 30 to all of that and a very different team will be presenting

but id modify it a bit and suggest... make it about 32 games and two pre-seasons...and watch what comes out in 2012

54 games and 3 pre-seasons and we ought to be nigh on dangerous

My God can you have mercy on an old guy, I have been waiting since 64. Not sure I will make it on that scale.

Can you please leave a copy of the herald sun on my grave when we finally win another flag.

Good work.

I honestly feel more confident about Watts now.

So he is a gun next year right?

God I hope you are right, the crap I get from friends is getting hard to take.

Still think he should play for Casey next weekend.

Interesting, thanks for that. It answers the questions I was wondering too.

I saw the title of this thread before openening it I immediately thought of how many times I saw Scully and Watts slip over during the game. Nice to know I wasn't the only one who noticed.

I went to the Casey vs Williamstown game a couple of weeks ago.

Casey players seemed to be slipping over a lot more than the Willy players.

In that game Casey got thrashed. I wonder if you make your own luck in this situation.

The team that is second to the ball or trying to change direction when tackling falls more because the leading team is not changing direction as often.

On Sunday we were constantly second to the action or chasing, is that the main problem!

Not a pot shot at you old dee as I am sure it is just an enquiry but I'm with Jaded on the topic of remuneration of players.

I understand people wanting to know and making demands when players performance is not up to scratch but really, how many do you think run around and drop marks or slip over and think 'stuff it I'm making $200K so who cares'?

The figures people quote, other than media 'at times' are most likely not even close. There is an amount that clubs need to get to so in some cases, ie Melbourne some players are probably getting over the odds, others ie Geelong are probably getting unders.

I know I don't sit at my desk all day thinking what I just made in the last hour, maybe because I would feel guilty about my time spent on Demonland etc!

So what do you think he will get? I honestly have no idea.

Is $200k high low or about right?

PS I am sure he does not think 'stuff it I'm making $200K so who cares'?

He is a beauty, wish we had three more like him.

Never puts in a poor game and has lots very good ones.

In case we have forgotten he is at the Demons because we traded Travis J.

He'll get about $400,000 for 2 years imo.

This is a serious question I am not being a smart arse.

Do guys like Watts that have played a hand full of games and at best been average

get paid 200 big ones a year?