Rogue

Exactly...and I already fork out for an AFL Membership, which is not an insignificant purchase for a student.

Bit of a loaded question to ask whether a run of wins will hep or hinder Riley's application, should he make one. Obviously it's not going to hurt, but I don't think losses should matter either. I hope Riley and whoever else is qualified and interested are looked at. Him being the incumbent should be neither here nor there. Fwiw I don't have an opinion on Riley - I don't really even know who he is.

I see where you're coming from but tend to think that drafting in younger kids to build a stronger team for the future quicker is more important than shoring up our list for the next year or so. I agree that Holland in particular is one guy that's difficult to replace. However, he is only valuable in certain circumstances. I'd rather send guys like Miller or our young defenders out there to give it a shot in those weeks where we're faced with a huge forward. I agree that we need to develop someone to take over from him ASAP, and I think fast-tracking their development by giving them gigs on these players will be helpful in the medium to long-term (even if a guy likes Rocca occassionally kicks a bag). I don't believe keeping Godfrey is great value if he's not part of our medium to long-term plans - and for me he's not. It'd be better to give our other midfielders tagging jobs IMHO. I do think Bizzell might be worth keeping. I think we should be looking at a minimum of five and perhaps more delistings though. I moved Bizz into the 'keep' category after you mentioned Neville though, so I agree with you on this one. I do think the guys you've mentioned have some value, so hopefully this explains where I'm coming from.

No. I don't like him and have found the media spat between him and Butter(!) unprofessional. Riewoldt isn't where I'd be spending big bucks either.

I can see where Balme is coming from, but on the other hand Frawley has said he wished he didn't continue as Coach of Richmond after it was announced that he was gone. I don't agree at all with your implication that ND is soft.

So you want to prop up our list now in the gamble that an ageing group of Neitz, McDonald (you missed him), and White can carry youngsters - who are generally inconsistent - to a flag at the expense of building for the McLean & Bate era? I don't share your faith in guys like Yze and Pickett at all. Blokes like Holland, Ward, and Brown aren't especially talented and are fringe types who wouldn't get a gig in the best sides IMHO. Whelan is struggling to get out on the park more and more, and while I rate the guy I wouldn't bet on him breaking his finals hoodoo and win us a flag. Providing we can adequately replace Neitz at FF (agree it's a massive hole) and White in the ruck we'll be better in 3-5 years when the mind and bodies of guys like Petterd, Garland, Frawley, McLean, Jones, Bate, Dunn & co. have matured. PS. Wheatley won't be gone in three years - he's ~26.

I wasn't aware he was out of contract & have never seen him play. Posters on here certainly think he's gone though. Why not run guys like Bartram, Buckley - and McDonald while he's still around - as taggers? Give them consistent AFL experience in '08. I mean really, Bartram would have played before Godfrey had he not been injured. Holland gives little value - how many 'gorilla' forwards are there? Better to give younger players that experience - we're going to need them to step up ASAP anyway. Holland isn't getting any younger - or quicker. Rivers has already taken over as the general IMO. Bizz would give us value next year IMO, but at the cost of experience to a guy like Frawley, Garland, Warnock etc. Could be worth keeping as depth, I do agree. Some valid comments on most players, but I think you're rather optimistic and it seems we're keeping virtually everyone. Who would you delist? Btw to address your query re: Ward/Brown, Ward's pace helps him immensely. We're a pretty slow team all over the park, but certainly in defence. Brown is pretty one-paced, can't kick very far, and his disposal isn't great either.

Neitz (aged 32 in 2007), McDonald (31), Bizz (31), Brown (31), White (30), Ward (30), Pickett (30), Holland (30), Yze (30), and Robertson (29). Oh, and Pickett. I agree with the majority of comments. We might have an ageing list but we don't have an ageing 22 and within two years most of the fringe-type older guys will be gone - without overly significant harm to our on-field performance. Do we need to 'rebuild'? Most of the older guys are fringe, being pushed out by younger players or losing form. Neitz, White, McDonald and Robertson are the only best 22 players there. I think we can cover the departure of McDonald and Robertson still has a few years left. Neitz is the major concern, and we need to recruit rucks as a priority (recruit and rookie 1 p/year). No idea why we didn't draft more rucks last year...

Next year is essentially meaningless. So too the year after I guess. How about we use that bargain basement price to draft a young kid who might not make it (we lose maybe a year or two of Woewodin as a contributor - at best) but who might turn out to have what it takes and be part of the McLean and Bate era that has a crack at the flag.

What's the point? You're not going to get a great player for Carroll. I mean sure, essentially virtually anyone is trade-able. However, Carroll is going to be worth more for us given our situation than we're likely to get for him. If Holland, Ferg, and Bizz go then our tall-ish defensive options are down to Warnock, Frawley, and Rivers (need at least 3 in the team) and little in the cupboard to cover injuries - perhaps Garland, Miller, ahm, err, Neitz to CHB Bartram and perhaps Buckley can tag, maybe McDonald too. Godfrey may have got the ball vs Richmond but turned it over time and time again - little respect shown to him by the Tigers and for good reason...I don't have the stats handy but the clanger count was very high. If Pickett played another season he might help us perform better than some of our younger players. However, we're not giving the flag a tilt next year IMO and thus he's just stifling development for the extra year he would play. Pointless in the grand scheme of things, even if he does have plenty to offer for a season. Wheatley isn't a very good defender. Ferguson is not in the same class as Rivers and he's not young and undeveloped - he's around 27 years old! He's not going to fill out, and as ND apparently said - too slow for the flank types and too weak for the KPP players. Give game time to guys like Frawley instead of Ferguson IMO, and allow Wheatley to play along a wing. Or we could get a kid for bargain basement who might not be any good, but might turn out to be part of the McLean and Bate era that challenges for a flag. Figure this is just for laughs though and I did like Woewodin.

Based on a list of out of contract players on Demonology Definitely worth keeping - David NEITZ //Best 22 Jared RIVERS //Best 22 James mcDONALD //Best 22 Russell ROBERTSON //Best 22 Nathan CARROLL //Best 22 atm Colin SYLVIA //Young, potential Just worth keeping - Brad MILLER //worth persevering with (particularly if Holland goes) Daniel WARD //Contact for 1 year? Need to field a team and we lack pace and smaller defenders Mark JAMAR //1 year if we don't get a readymade ruck Delist - Ryan FERGUSON //Barely fringe Ben HOLLAND //Old, fringe Nathan BROWN //Old, fringe Simon GODFREY //Poor disposal - Bartram, Buckley(?) more potential Byron PICKETT //Old, lesser player, departure will give potential MFC Premiership players opportunities Clint BIZZELL //Old, still able but depature will give Frawley, Warnock etc opportunity - wouldn't mind 1 year contract EDIT: Apparently Neville is out of contact and is simply not good enough. Perhaps delist 1 more or move Bizz into the 'just worth keeping' category.

The Age The Age As I said in an existing thread, I thought ND would see out the year, but I guess it makes sense. Worth noting that apparently at the mid-season review ND had essentially given the second half of 2007 over to development for '08, so the young guys would have been getting opportunities regardless of whether ND was 'coaching for his future'.

Hrm

Very interesting comments regarding Petterd.

You're kidding me :|

To... & et al. You may have heard it all before because this post was from over a month ago.

If it's what I'm thinking of it was along the lines of Yze being a matchwinner - a guy you stick with because he can virtually win games for you.

For me out come Yze (inj.), Holland (no match-up in the backline), Pickett and Godfrey. Apparently Godfrey and Pickett have milestone games coming up, so perhaps they'll be saved. In fairness, Godfrey's disposal has generally been improved but it was back to bad on Friday and I don't think we need him tagging vs Ess. If he's not tagging he doesn't have a role IMO. Pickett was extremely uninspiring and still doesn't look very fit. I'd include Dunn & Newton and look at CJ and Buckley. Wheatley to play on a wing in my team so perhaps there's a spot for Warnock who has been in the Sandringham best recently. I can see why some have suggested Miller come in, but I'd only be considering it if he's to be used as a CHB a la his role in Pavlich at the 'G last year. While there's value in giving kids a crack at big jobs there's no point in losing a game and have a younger player embarassed because we don't have options. As another poster said, a winning culture has to be developed so a balance between fielding a competitive side and blooding youngsters is important.

Agree with this part.

I don't think ND should leave immediately. I don't agree with the assertion that the players will fail to perform to the extent they have with ND because he won't be there next year, if for no other reason than they will be playing for eachother and themselves. Many of them will also feel insecure about their future. IF ND departed immediately we'd need to find someone to take on the role - One option would be to promote one of the assistants as caretaker coach - is there any real value in that? I'm not so sure there's value for that assistant or the Club in general. Alternatively, we would bring in a new coach who was going to lead the club for X period of time. The Coach would likely be unfamilar with the Club, the list, other staff, etc. In addition, a poor performance from the team in the second half of the season would create much pressure (think the reverse of Roos and Sydney). Fwiw, I think that having a potential candidate in the box with ND would be intolerable for ND and very difficult for the aspirant. Shouldn't - and won't - happen IMO.

Hurrah.

I wonder if something big is brewing

Read the full article at The Age online

Hehe.

I imagine promoting him now would cost money and be rather pointless if he wasn't actually going to play.