DeeSpencer

Zaharakis! No bomber I'd want more than this guy Would also be keen for Jobe for a couple of years just to help develop the midfield

Ok so the B+F system needs reworking. In some ways this ones been ok because it means for 100 point thrashings you can just give everyone 1 votes but it seems its become a who played the most games as long as they weren't completely useless they polled ok.. I'm not sure if it's 3,2,1 or even 5,4,3,2,1 and you let the coaches have discretion on awarding the 5 and 4 vote depending on team performance but something has to change. It has clearly identified the 2 best players but that's about all it did this year.

That's the kind of cop out that our list have been using to justify their rubbish efforts. We've got close to a dozen players who look ok under the Neeld regime, why do the others expect a coach will do it for him. The B+F result has not led me to change my view on Dunn, it's actually the other way round, I'm paying out on the B+F for being such a rubbish award that its let Dunn finish 6th

Will be the catalyst for my 'B+F voting system must be changed thread' that I will start tomorrow. What a joke

Where's Clisby! Still can't believe we didn't fight that suspension. The werribee team has a big ruck and good midfield. Should be a tight game

Fev and Lloyd both looked like the game was past them when they finished up. Old school full forwards that the game had moved passed. Roughead and Pav both move and at time play as midfielders. So yes you've made my point for me. And without a tape measure I wouldn't say Roughie is much less than 195cm, certainly 193 isn't much less. Where are the 190cm or less key forwards? Their days are over just as the 195cm rucks have been replaced by 200cm plus

Watts second half improved massively on his first but did his year improve on last? I'd say no.Totally agree it should be Watts, Strauss, Blease, Trengove, Tapscott

Not keen on the Yarran one but I'd take all the rest of those in a flash. Particularly the Armitage and Selwood ones. Getting a decent experienced mid and only going back a few picks in the draft would be ideal. Really like Sam Mayes as well so I'd love that one. I wonder if we did get pick 1 if we could start a bidding war like that. Surely all those teams you named besides West Coast and you can probably add Freo are in desperate need of a key forward.

Well you underestimate just how bad our midfield is and you also realise that if we are kicking the ball forward to 4 talls that means the forward pressure won't be there and it also divides the number of marks by 4 because you have to separate the talls. Otherwise 2 on 2 is much easier for the defenders no matter how stretched they are. Clark would have to ruck and probably full time for that to work. That's the only way all 4 could play together.

That was the old days before everyone ate too many Coles chickens. Every team now has key defenders around 195cm with excellent agility such as Chip Frawley. Very hard to be a gun key forward at less than that height and very hard to be a good medium sized forward these days. A lot of teams don't have any of them and if they do they usually are required to play in the midfield. I like Hogan over Boyd because I like Hogan's ability to get in the game when he's not just playing as a lead and mark or contested mark player. He looks to have that ability to be the loose man in defense or even do spurts in the midfield if his body holds up. But most importantly he'll be a thread around the packs and in contested play as well. Playing as a designated full forward is getting very hard. I've got no doubt with a fast ambitious game plan than Jack Riewoldt could easily get 80 goals most years and maybe more. He's got that ability to time a lead and mark strongly out of the square. But Richmond can't afford for him and the team to play that way so instead he comes up the ground and does his share of work and also leads back towards the goals and other things. It's unfortunate and I hope one day there's a coach with enough innovation to play a super attacking game plan that features a key forward going bananas! Otherwise we'll all be looking for Jeremy Cameron's, big and fast guys who could easily play a goal square full forward but are required to do so much more.

Not sure if this is even an award at the B+F but wanted to get thoughts Col Garland Went from a semi decent back pocket who defender a man and not a lot else to a very high class defender. Now is willing to come off his opponent to help. Attacks the ball. Runs hard. Intercept marks. Really took a step up Jack Fitzpatrick Was a breath of fresh air when he burst on to the scene midseason with his hard leading and crazy goal kicking action. Certainly came a long way from his first AFL experience. Fast, not afraid to get into to it and surprised with decent marks. Needs to keep improving to be a regular but considering before the year most weren't too keen on him at all it's a good improvement Dean Kent Difficult to nominate a first year player but I think he really improved as the season went on. Started at Casey then got into the side and really held his own the last month or so Michael Evans For guy who'd missed so long out and hadn't played much he showed some very nice form at the start and middle of the year before succumbing to injury. Was one of our harder runners and attacked the ball. Max Gawn Again another who had missed a lot of footy and played a really good stretch at times, especially good against Sydney and a few other games. Also got the sense they were holding him back and not flogging him in a dead season. We hope for another big improvement next year Jake Spencer Graduation from complete spud who missed the ball when he tried to kick it to only mild spud. Still don't want him kicking or marking the ball but he showed his competitive nature and also that he can win hitouts, even though he still needs to get much stronger so he doesn't get pushed around by smaller but stronger rucks

Why would you trade Hogan and then draft Boyd? Why not just trade pick 3. Also not to mention West Coast who have Darling and Kennedy would much prefer to keep their 2 best CONTRACTED young midfielders. Pick 3 for either Shuey or Selwood if they wanted to come home makes a lot more sense for all parties. Also Hogan's home sickness now is irrelevant. We need to at least wait until the end of next year when he's had the chance to play at MCG, most likely under Paul Roos with big crowds and kicking goals. That's much more likely to make him feel like sticking around than playing out at Casey

It's both the for and against in the one argument. The last line is particularly telling - he is not a genuine AFL player yet in the eyes of Roos. So people who keep pumping him up can you please understand that. Roos will determine based upon the skills and intent he sees from Watts what position will best suit him. I for one certainly don't think it will be as a contested marking key forward. It's much more likely to be as a ball user between the arcs or on a wing. Then Roos will take the time to teach him the skills needed for that position and I believe will finally do what no MFC coach has been gutsy enough to do with Watts and will give him an extended period in the reserves if that dictates or will give him an extended period in one position even if he's been beaten a lot of time. That's what we are getting from Roos, a guy who is stubborn and has the runs on the board and wont be undermined by the media or perception. As for the debut can we all get over the aspect that he wasn't ready from a footballing perspective. He was extremely talented, our side sucked, he played decent VFL. He was well and truly due to come in to the team at some stage. It was the marketing campaign and external pressure that was the problem, not any Collingwood defenders bumping him around. Kevin Sheedy has debuted younger players on big occassions plenty of times, but he sets them up for it and doesn't pump the entire game around them and then he also protects them in the aftermath if things don't go so well.

Whilst I'd love to keep him if a proper position was available I think it's best we let Roos determine what positions he needs along with the GMFO and therefore it's probably not a spot for Craig. Potentially we could save on the payment regardless by making his job (elite performance or whatever it was) redundant.

Frawley, Garland, McDonald, Terlich, Nath Jones, Viney, Grimes, Gawn, Kent, Hogan, Clark, Dawes, Fitzpatrick, McDonaldIt's a start. It's a collection of guys who will put their bodies on the line and as far as I can tell have some form of talent and work rate. Now the list is crud and it's hard work finding 22 to pick each week who are near capable of winning yet alone will fight for 120 minutes. But there's enough for a new coming coach to deal with. Of course a new coach shouldn't be seen as a messiah but we shouldn't be looking for a miracle. It shouldn't be that hard of we are smart and patient to get back to respectability. I'd take 5 wins next year and 8 the year after. We shouldn't need a miracle

do we actually know that? Or is it some don't and a bunch of hippies and anti capitalism folks have joined in.And why haven't they recruited Rory Sloane as their public face!

Well he played a hell of a lot more games than Toumpas, who is his first year and I damn well hope by the time he's in his 5th year is way better than Watts. He might also get above Kent because he played some ok games, he had a real purple patch against Coll and StKilda in the middle of the year. But where Watts will finish in this years B+F is irrelevant. It's how he helps the team and in more games than not this year he's provided nothing. His game against the Kangaroos was a disgrace to name 1.

Are you suggesting we put one of the worst performed and lazier players of the second half of 2013 on the banner? I'd much rather have McKenzie who stands for exactly what we need under Roos - hard and tough work. McKenzie completely shut down Ablett and Griffen in the second half of this season after he returned from injury. Howe on the other hand was barely even taking hangas until the weekend that's how (excuse the pun) far off good form he was.

It hurt us because we over valued it and didn't put any resources into drafting and player development. But for everyone else it's been a great way to lift clubs off the bottom and move them up the ladder. Of course GWS and Gold Coast -- who both got the equivalent of 5 or more PP's have changed things massively but I'm not sure I can think of a year where so little change has happened on the ladder. Sure Port jumped up but if they get bailed out after 1 match it wont count for much. West Coast took a tumble which isn't too surprising given the age of their list and how bad their injuries were, Adelaide the classic case of a young side over achieving one year the under achieving the next but really not a lot else happened. Gold Coast were predictably better. Brisbane the same. St Kilda fell lower and the dogs improved but in the scheme of successful rebuilding of the past they didn't exactly do anything amazing. Richmond are entering finals this year on the back of some really clever trading and drafting, with some nice young talls maturing and some decent flankers and midfielders. But the main strength of their side comes from their top draft picks in Cotchin, Martin and Deledio. They are the 3 if you shut down for a match and the rest of your side is half decent you've gone a long way to beating them. Imagine if instead of Tambling they took Franklin when they got their Priority Pick. Well you'd probably have them top 4 and a real force. That's the benefit of the priority pick, it means the bad teams get better faster and when they are better they are actually very good - see Hawthorn, StKilda, Bulldogs and Collingwood.

What land? Aren't you just using the ends to justify the means. Personally I'd say Roos had no desire to coach before the jobs started calling him. When he was on 300k+ to coach the swans academy and a healthy deal with Fox he didn't need the money. And Healy would've had to have a serious guarantee from Roos before he launched into this rear action that has cost us a huge pay out to the CEO and coach and board turmoil. If it was the case you'd have to ask why he wouldn't stop Schwab's reappointment, why they couldn't find any decent candidate to run a board challenge and then why we couldn't have waited to until the end of the year to sack Neeld who might just have had a much better season behind a freshened board and CEO, with possible a restructured footy department before this year. If we get Roos, to go with an impressive Peter Jackson and a new president with AFL support it will all be a nice result. But think of the pain we've suffered to get here. No doubt even with AFL support we will also dip into debt in the next 12 months as well. I really wish some of these so called experts had predicted these circumstances, no re hired Schwab and avoided a huge payout, got a better more focused board in place and head of football that was experienced and helped Neeld. That way even if he did fail which seemed inevitable we would be in a much better condition now.

Obviously you mean Jack Riewoldt because Nick was as star from day 1. Hawkins was a mile off physically and as such struggled, but I don't see why Watts should be. Looking at him he's around 90kg and should be playing to those strengths already. I don't expect him to be playing as a true key forward because he doesn't have the body for it yet and I don't think he ever will. I've got no problem with what he does with the ball. I actually use to love watching Trav Johnstone lope around at half speed before delivering a lace out pass and the same for guys like Dal Santo or Pendlebury who have that vision and skill that make them look like they are playing a different game to everyone else. It's Watts' work rate to win the ball or win the ball back that is a mile off and hasn't improved whatever position he's been trialled in. I believe he's been lucky to escape most major injuries and to have decent preseasons. So why hasn't he developed the work rate to succeed. He's been on the list for 5 years now. That's 2 years more than Tom McDonald who will run all day at CHB and much longer than Toumpas and Kent who both came in under done and you can't say that Watts was head and shoulders above those 2 on output.

How can you say he's developing nicely if he hasn't laid a tackle, put his body on the line or chased hard since he's come to the club. Dean Kent developed nicely as a flanker this year. Watts wasted another year shuffling between positions because he either can't or refuses to play physical football.

FB: Clisby Frawley Garland HB: Terlich McDonald Grimes C: Toumpas Jones Evans HF: Sylvia Dawes Howe FF: Hogan Clark Byrnes Foll: Gawn Viney McKenzie Int: Kent Trengove Watts ****** Obviously the ones Roos named in his article are the main stays. I think Terlich with a preseason of defensive coaching will improve. He does stick to an opponent and play well up the ground, it's just deep under pressure that he struggles. And his kicking was good early in the year, people made too much of one error when he was getting it 25 times with no one to kick to. Clisby is another who might just be a Roos special with the way he runs aggressively and is a decent defender. If Roos is smart he will go for smarter footballers who need more work like Clisby over dumb ones. Up forward I think the 3 big guys pick themselves and I think Clark will start as the back up ruck if healthy. Roos has no aversion to a lot of talls but unless he hits the mature age market hard he'll know he needs guys who can rotate into the midfield to make up the run. That's why Sylvia and Byrnes are named forward and Clark is the second ruck. I'm hoping Gawn has a huge off season and stands out as the number 1 ruck, his competitiveness should come through. The midfield is a big question mark. Again it's futile to predict which if any mature players we can attract. Barring that I have faith in Toumpas, Evans, Kent and Trengove. If Evans gets a fit AFL body he can mix it at the level and is a competitor. Trenners of course gets in. And I really like how Kent got better as the season went on, that's a really good sign. Toumpas might not be an ideal round 1 Roos player but if he comes on after a preseason he will continue to be our best kick of the footy. Watts is the biggest question mark at all. Personally I'm not putting him in a forward 50 when I've got Hogan, Dawes and Clark available. That's 3 guys who will either take contested marks or halve contests all day long and chase and pressure when the ball does hit the deck. I'm looking for a position that uses Watts speed, skills and visions. So be that half back, wing or half forward up the ground I'm not sure. The first thing I'd do if I was Paul Roos would be to have a huge heart to heart open chat with Watts and if he wanted out I'd explain if the deal is right he can go. If he wanted in then I'd explain his skills and weaknesses and just what I'd do about them.

Coach first I would think. Although we could trim a few spuds first without any trouble - ie. Gillies. The other thing is when your VFL team is still alive it's nice to not announce delistings. Their is no real benefit in doing it early.

Depends, but probably yes is the answer. For any other club in the league besides us and GWS you aren't really expected to play in your first 2 years. Especially when he missed the majority of the first year. He's also played some good games in the VFL, although consistency has been a big problem. I'd still say Taggert is at the stage where you'd have to be convinced he doesn't have a lot of improvement left. Especially when there are plenty ahead of him who have had all those changes - Jetta, Nicholson etc.