DeeSpencer

Let them. Hawthorn wouldn't touch a key defender who can't kick. Or they wouldn't put him in the team until he learns how. And they always defend and run with perfect intelligence. When their defenders get beat (Cheney and Schoenmakers, even Gibson) it's because one on one they get beat, it happens.

I hope he's restricted in his fitness because 1 goal 5 and 11 marks for Petrie including Petrie getting him on the lead multiple times is not up to scratch. I know North had good delivery but it's the lack of desperation to stop kicks up to the wing/flanks which is McDonald's main strength which is lacking. It's why I'm thinking he's just not smart enough to zone and read the play.

Don't care if this bites me on the back Jetta or Pedersen style. I'm putting it out there. It's not the kicking. With time that could improve. It's not even the defending errors that happen occasionally, they'll get better and he does a lot right. It's the lack of pace for a guy who's meant to have speed. It's the incredibly bad decision making with ball in hand regardless of kicking. It's the lack of help he provides team mates by running to help, at one time today Grimes got the ball under pressure and turned towards the boundary with Ziebell on his hammer. McDonald had run back behind Grimes to where he couldn't help at all instead of towards where Grimes would need help, and Grimes (less said about him the better) is nothing but consistent. I'm over Tom McDonald and I'm now at the stage where I'd love to be proven wrong. Personally I'd rather start again with someone who's a footballer first not an athlete.

I know GWS have had so many picks they must be thinking needs based but would you really want to draft a tall defender/back up ruck number 1 overall? That's not a marquee position. I look at Collingwood with Frost coming off the rookie list and doing really well and even experienced defenders like Tom Lonergan, Teddy Richards, Zac Dawson and think it's more about finding some good athletes and tough guys and developing them rather than spending a number 1 pick, same with rucks. And if they did go needs based with the ruck I'd go for Wright as he's legit ruck size and can play the second ruck/forward role. I like the rest but I feel someone will burn down the kennel if they don't go a tall. Hrovat and Dalhaus are meant to be half forward speedsters. Johannisen from half back if he develops. Macrae isn't slow. Depends on the rest of their draft but they need some proper tall prospects.

Watts. Gets the ball. Wanders back 3 steps. Moves two steps to the side. Is called to play on. Now starts looking for targets. So annoying. 1. Lead 2. Mark 3. Play on straight away OR two or three steps off the mark, then spin quickly 4. Push back further off the mark 5. Move in the direction you will kick

I have to ask why are you on a footy forum talking about footy and interested in the draft yet your only watch Melbourne games. Considering how poor we've been on late that's an impressive level of dedication!But yes. Beau Waters is a hard as nails tough back pocket/flanker, Sam Mayes is a smooth moving, skillful utility who can play half forward, half back, wing and probably eventually midfield. So if a player is compared to both of them then that's impossible to know what he does well or not. The two I've read and seen on that list the most are Hugh Goddard and Jake Lever. Goddard is your prototypical tall developing prospect. He's got all the physical and footballing tools the question is just whether he really leaps out and dominates games. But he has skills and athleticism and you could put him half back or half forward. He probably reminds me of Lachie Henderson in that he'll end up a good player at a minimum. I'd say we'd be super keen if Frawley left and he was around and we had pick 3-6. Lever you'd like to see grow just a bit to 195cm so he's the right size but he's a natural key defender. Just one of those kids who's way ahead of the others his age at defending. But he's done a knee and missed this year. But he's like Col Garland as just a quality half back who will stop goals and get the ball going the other way. Whether you'd use a top pick on a guy coming off a knee who might be undersized and just a half back is another question.

The NFC west should now have 4 teams with excellent defenses, you could argue they might be the 4 best in the entire league all in one division. And none of them have the top range big money QB's and they are committed to the ground game. Going to be some epic games between those 4 teams this year. My early tip for playoff teams NFC West: Seattle South: New Orleans East: Philly North: Detroit WC: Atlanta and Arizona AFC: North: Baltimore South: Colts West: San Diego East: New England WC: Denver and Bengals

Jono Brown the most famous. Mark Murphy said thanks but no thanks.

Jack Viney is working out pretty well but I'd usually be against a coach picking his own son. How it differs here is that Roos will be out of the senior coaching job in 2 years and therefore wont be senior coach for his own son for too long. As long as Roos stays out of the recruiting process then I'd trust the recruiters. No nothing about the kid except he looks confident and I decent size when down at training helping out his old man.

I'm not saying he isn't popular. Was only saying he has great confidence. The ability to walk in to Roos' office and ask for a full game and then back it up. That's a great thing.

Don't want to over state it and make him sound like the next superstar of the game but what JKH has is that obvious self belief that borders on arrogance that most of the good players have. I could see how it could grate on people. But he backs it up with great work ethic and so far some really good results on field. Jack Viney has it as well. Same with Jesse Hogan. There's nothing wrong with the kids who come in to clubs like a young Col Garland and don't speak for 2 years. But especially with the group of players we had with their confidence shot there is nothing wrong with some confidence.

Man he has fast clean hands. Just body the ball and zoom and he's straight out of traffic. Lovely to watch. He'll be an ok crumbing forward but this kids a midfielder just waiting to build up his tank and strength.

Yeah they're trying to move it later to steal the limelight from the NBA but they are really just hurting themselves. I think the Texans want a trade but probably can't find one. I'm not buying the Atlanta move. I think as good as he's been they've probably learn from the Julio Jones trade that it's not worth it. Selling more of their future for Clowney would be a big mistake. They need an O line, TE, possibly a RB, third receiver and help all over the defense to win a superbowl not just one pass rusher. I'm hoping for their sake Cleveland hold strong and wait until their late first round pick for QB. Vikings as well got to be thinking about second round or later surely. I like Bridgewater, Carr and Murray just as much as Bortles if not more. Time for some NFL teams to head the lessons of Paul Roos and trading back in the draft!

Combining 2 of my favourite things - Being a cruel bastard - Crazy ideas I'd force him to wear a helmet when he plays. See if he reacts and puts his head over it then.

The moral of the story is as always draft best available. I'm not overly impressed by having Jamar, Spencer, Gawn, Fitzy, Pedo as our ruck department and having to pick 2 of those guys each week. But at the same time I think you can win games with them. I'd also want another quality forward in the pipeline behind Dawes and Hogan. So there's room for a ruck and a forward and there's especially room for a guy who can play both at a high level. Of course you have to be careful drafting ruckmen early. I'd stay away from a number 1 pick on a ruck because at 18 it's very hard to measure the develop of any player yet alone a 200cm kid. But Wright is mainly a forward and in the Daniher mold. So I'm not adverse to him. If he's the clearly most talented kid then you take him. What I'm really hoping is we don't have the number 1 pick. We have to frank our form against Carlton (and even Gold Coast, GWS, Saints) and turn that into wins.

Lycette's a legitimate ruck. Sinclair can ruck a little but really isn't. With Cox coming towards the end I think the Eagles will be super keen to keep both and if one of them is a back up for injuries then so be it. Considering Nic Nat's injury status you'd want to have both available anyway.

9 days until the draft? Who do you want. Will teams learn a lesson from the 2012 draft class that wasting first round picks on questionable QBs isn't wise. Is Clowney that good?

Maybe it's just a 3 year deal but with different terms for 2015 than his original 2 year deal. I think if you do that you don't have to stick to the initial draft contract. I think draftees get about 50k but like 5k or more per match payment which if he plays every match obviously adds on another 100k to the deal. Possibly renegotiating the contract to give him guaranteed money for 2015 and 2016 (or even 2017) can result in paying the same amount of money as well as having him signed up. Plus you can then front load the contract for salary cap space in the future. There's obvious benefit for getting those who you have a lot of confidence about locked in to contracts so you can start getting an idea of where you have room to move.

Don't know much about the families background and I'm very sorry if I'm wrong but I think his fathers passed away and his immediate family have been in Victoria for years. He played TAC for Oakleigh and went to Trinity College. Don't think there's any go home risk

Looking forward to them all. Particularly keen to see how Harmes and Hunt shape up at VFL level. I like Harmes at training he seems to have a crack at everything and could make a nice depth mid pretty adept at most aspects of footy. Hopefully he can put in some decent VFL performances. Hunt as well, some pure speed off half back would be great for this team. Obviously pretty skinny and raw but another who could develop nicely. If Georgiou is a confident and competent 3rd tall defender from deep in the rookie draft he must win the find of the year. JKH was pick 40 but he was also our second pick, we were obviously pretty keen on him and his training efforts were great he was switched on from day 1. But it's still early days for him. If he plays well he'll then draw interest from better defenders and so on. Have to remember it's not where these young guys start but where they end up in a few years time. And that applies to both rusty debut performances and great early career form.

Cleveland the other big movers replacing their safety in Ward with a more expensive one in Whitner and signing Dansby. They'll likely have a very good defense but still be limited by QB play on offense.

Not completely surprised he got another go considering he was a first round pick etc. But surprised the 49ers traded anything at all for him. And now they've followed it up with Jonathan Martin. Seems they believe in their powers to turn players around. Bears today got Lamarr Houston from Oakland on a 5 year 35 mil contract for the 26 year old DE. Seems more a solid run stopping DE than a big sack guy but he helps our defense. Plus we got a cheapish safety. And resigned our MLB. Still need to add another DE, DT, CB and probably another depth safety whether it's our own free agents coming back or not. There were some interesting deals around the league. The saints landing Byrd the safety. They might transition from a great offense no defense to a pretty good defense but not such a great offense. Broncos have been the biggest movers I think bringing in TJ Ward at safety and Aqib Talib at CB. And there' the favourites for Ware. That would give them some serious improvement on defense. Revis rumoured to the patriots. That would be huge.

I think we will have a clearer picture on the key forwards in 12 months time. We only need one of Clark, Dawes or Fitzpatrick to recover from injury/assert themselves at AFL level and when matched with Hogan and Howe we should be fine. If Frawley leaves we will be looking at a key defender. Either way we've got a decent relationship going with GWS and their young tall Kristian Jaksch who was a school team mate of Viney's is half way back to Victoria if reports are to be believed. It wouldn't surprise me if we keep doing trades with them just like this year and drop back in the draft in order to get some of their slightly more ready to go former high draft picks in return. I think Roos will continue to value pick 10 or pick 20 plus a ready to step up talent over yet another top 5 pick.

You said the reason Taggert was delisted had nothing to do with the coach or recruiters choice? Now you say it is attitude. Well isn't part of the predraft screening an interview and background checks to work out what guys attitudes will be like? Wasn't Taggert the one who sent Neeld an email about why he should be picked or something of the like? Either way I don't want to focus on the past too much but I'm sure character is one of Viney/Taylor's key recruiting principles.

Well care to spill? Personally I thought his skills and potential upside showed enough despite modest output. From the limited I saw of him, plus training, plus stats he certainly didn't get involved in games enough but seemed to have the ability in skills to mark, kick, tackle, handball etc. So if he got a preseason or two under his belt he may have taken it up a notch. There was also something a bit odd in that his VFL performances were reasonable and pretty much the whole list got a game besides him. I'd be guessing but I'd say it was either - His attitude/training/preparation was poor or - His body was a concern and thus they didn't think they'd ever get him to AFL fitness I haven't said anything about Neeld in this thread and not too many have. I've said BP was a bad recruiter but I've got no problem with that statement. His draft record (even influenced by substandard development) is pretty ordinary. Last I checked he's got a job at Carlton (not in recruiting) and is probably doing well. From my understanding he wasn't a specialist recruiter when Melbourne hired him and so I'd put the decision to hire him for that position as a club wide failure. That means the board and by extension us, the CEO, the coach (Bailey), the head of footy are all to blame. This thread was created to look back. It was a shocking time. Therefore the reflections will not be great. As long as the discussion is mainly about where and why not who then I don't see the need to be upset. Neeld and Prendergast will be mentioned, it doesn't have to result in outrage.