Adam The God

I'm hoping the Suns take care of Carlton next week and it becomes a non issue. We really should beat Hawthorn irrespective of all that and I expect us to. But then I expected us to beat Carlton too.

Agree, our centre work was poor all night, but aside from the first 7 mins of the last quarter where they scored their 3 goals, 2 practically directly from stoppage, certainly the second goal of the quarter was straight out the front of the stoppage. But these were actually the first goals from stoppage from either team all night, so I think you're hyperbolising.

Sure, we'd prefer it dry because it brings our interceptors into the game more, but I maintain the wet weather query on us is overblown and wrong. IMV, it was a combination of us being a little off and then Carlton's pressure causing fumbles and we didn't deal with it. Our mids coughed the ball up on the ground and our backs lost key ground balls higher up the field, or simply panicked - think the goal Bowser gave up from panic at ground level. The one strength the weather does impact is Gawn's ability in the air. That would be the major argument IMO of wet weather undermining our game.

No, nothing to do with loading or tapering IMV. I think @DeelightfulPlay nailed it. Even though we only had two ins, we've had three major changes to three zones of the ground and this happened all in the last fortnight, so cohesion is out of whack. 1) Smith going back has meant our defenders don't trust each other. It starts with May, who rightly, doesn't trust Smith's zonal positioning, which leaves May trying to play 1v1 and zone, and ending up occasionally doing neither. This lack of trust then spreads through the rest of the back 7. One questionable link in the chain undermines everything. 2) Clarry's return has thrown off the midfield balance and saw multiple players going for the same ball, instead of trusting each other to win it and take up aggressive outside positioning to receive. 3) Petty's aerial threat and forward craft being replaced by Grundy, who offers neither of those things and also seemingly throws off Max's game is a double whammy. It means we have little aerial threat offensively and lack defensive pressure when the ball hits the ground. Chandler played 66% TOG tonight, but I have no idea what his role was. He was essentially a non entity. So I think we need to drop JJ (which hopefully lessens the midfield problem by prividing clarity over roles) for Spargo and I'd bring in a speed forward (Spargo) who can do the gut running, high half forward role with ANB, so that Chandler and Kozzy can play closer to goal, and provide greater forward pressure. I'd also play Smith forward and only back as an absolute break glass option. He's frankly sub if we think Tmac will give us an offensive threat.

I can't recall such a differential ever under Goody. It was bizarre. We were hopeless early, but they were brilliant. And we never really got going, but our system saved us early.

Yep, agreed, I think you're probably spot on. I hope we can find some synergy over the next fortnight in all three zones of the ground. Otherwise, we're in big trouble.

I don't think it was just their pressure though. We were off for large portions of the game, and certainly the first half. The best example was allowing their half backs and mids handball receives exiting our A50 and even through the corridor. It gave them repeated territory. Either our pressure was off or we were too positionally defensive defending those short uncontested marks. And as we saw, Carlton smashed us for uncontested possessions. The top possession getters for the first half were pretty much all Carlton half backs, who were allowed to do what they wanted and set up play. Did our players or coaches not give those guys enough respect in the first half? We certainly ensured they got less of these handball receive releases in the second half, and it meant they were having to kick to more contests, what we wanted them to do. Unfortunately, we didn't intercept mark and we didn't win the ground ball efficiently enough. It also meant we lost Kozzy up the ground a bit where he was super dangerous early, because he became the guy tracking all the handball receive runners inside our A50.

I love Demonland. It's this sort of post that gives me solace. ❤️

Agree with this mate. I think we played the percentages a fraction too often with our ball movement. A couple of times when we should have gone long on the switch or fast on the slingshot, we played safe. The coaches might be ultimately okay with that, because their response would be, if Trac's goal is given, we win. But this is the difference between us and Collingwood and Port. They take that every time. Particularly, Collingwood. I guess over the next month and a half, we'll see which approach stacks up better. And ultimately, we might stick with our approach anyway as we fit our system to our personnel. If we had two F/Ss that could hit kicks from everywhere that were essentially the best players in their draft years, we might be better able to make that shift. Instead we have inside bulls and contested beasts. Again, we'll see who wins out soon.

Before tonight I thought we'd beaten Collingwood with Gawndy and it could absolutely work, but when you need someone to take a big grab up forward, he just doesn't provide a consistent threat. And for whatever reason, Max can't get his game going when Grundy is in the team. I think they'll go without Grundy now, but I'm personally on the fence about it. As I say, we'll have to make some more bold decisions if we're gonna win our 14th.

The other thing that seemed obvious tonight was the lack of midfield cohesion, which was undoubtedly thrown off by the return of Clarry. It's no one's fault, we just have to find better cohesion. Multiple players going for the same ground ball and lacking trust in team mates to win it. Happened at the back too. This was then exacerbated by Carlton's pressure.

We looked at sea behind the ball with Smith there. As soon as he moved forward, both ends of the ground looked better. I've changed my view based on Petty's injury and tonight's performance. I think we'll go two talls at the back (May and Lever) with Hibbo from now on. Smith into the sub role and Tmac or Brown in to support JVR, JVR into second ruck spot. If Tmac or BB aren't fit, Smith stays and bring in Harmes. He could not be any worse than JJ was. I can't recall a game in the last three years where we've been so comprehensively beaten as we were tonight. It's hard not to knee-jerk to a result like tonight. Carlton were awesome, but we were on the backfoot the entire night and were never able to properly sustain a counter punch or even offer one at all. I don't wanna say we're done, but I expected to win, we should have won, they had a lot out and they controlled the game, stifled us with pressure and held us off all night. The funny thing is season's can hinge on very small moments and you need the luck going your way. If that Trac goal at the end was an umpire's call of goal (if you watch the hands on the head's of Carlton defenders directly after the ball crosses the line - it didn't look touched to me), all of a sudden the narrative completely shifts. Melbourne have won 6 in a row, top 2 is pretty much secured, Carlton's 8 game streak is broken and everyone goes here come Melbourne. The response the next fortnight will be instructive, and I hope we use tonight (a finals like game) to make bold selection moves to give ourselves the best chance of winning our 14th flag.

I have no animosity towards Jackson, but I hope he doesn't go to the next level. He doesn't play for Melbourne. We move on and hope our guys are better than everyone else's.

I don't mind either, I just think it's bizarre. Particularly, with how guarded the AFL are in terms of other codes. It's a huge advertisement for football (⚽️).

It's bizarre that they've pushed the game time for AFL for another sport.

I love 80s synth pop and New Wave, basically my favourite genre, and pretty much anything by Jim Steinman from the 80s and 90s, but if we're talking 90s cheese, I'm surprised by the lack of awesome that is La Bouche and just generally Euro house. Then there's anything by ATB... Sorry.... gotta duck back to Binners' office.

Lot of bandwagon Blues that come out of the wood work when they start to show something.

The last few weeks for us have been huge (our own results and others going our way), but this week is just as big. Beat Carlton, Collingwood, Brisbane and Port lose and we'll just about guarantee top 2. 🤞

Because North might go for Curtin before Reid as well... they are likely to have a CHB need.

Wrong thread mate? I am aroused though.

Ah well, we all have different bodies (and views).

I never knew that's why he had waffles in his avatar! Haha, brilliant.

Ask Stevie Wonder.

It's not really apt to compare pre Clarry with post Clarry. Pre Clarry we were going -1 at stoppage, post Clarry we've levelled up numbers at the stoppage and given Rivers free reign to play the intercept role (Brayshaw's 2022 role). One of the more interesting aspects of Clarry's return is whether we'll revert to the -1 at stoppage, so we can generate a tall interceptor behind the play, or whether we'll stick with even numbers at contest. My feeling is we'll stick with even numbers and with Grundy in the side, it actually gives us the chance (as @Abyssal writes) to play Max behind ball, which will automatically free up interceptors, as the opposition will be drawn to Max. But at the same time, we also lose nothing from the stoppage with Grundy's ruckwork replacing Max's. A great privilege to have.

I agree, although Melksham will basically play tall, because he'll almost certainly spend a large portion of the night on Weitering. That'll free up Grundy/Gawn and give JVR a lesser opponent like Marchbank.