Adam The God

Maybe it's because I'm in the latter stages of my film's edit at the moment and therefore very analytical, but the message of this thread isn't clear to me. What's your point? If we're discussing what the nucleus of our team is, it's the best 22 at the moment... If we're discussing what the nucleus of a potential premiership team is, well, that's very different, because I wouldn't have Lewis, Vince or probably Jones in there. Since the thesis isn't clear, I'm going to run with the nucleus of the next premiership team. I'd have: Hogan, Salem, Petracca, Viney, Lever, Brayshaw, Gawn, Oliver, Hibberd, Tom McDonald / Weideman, Oscar McDonald, Jetta and hopefully Hunt. I, like a few others on here, have high hopes for Petty too. I haven't included Tyson as I think his lack of speed is a severe impediment to Goodwin's game style and will see him on the outer long term.

Fritsch needed a rest and would have been a liability in the heavy wet conditions last night. Stretch was brought in to counter some of Richmond's pace. The problem is his game has gone backwards for at least two years and he doesn't want the football. Each time he got it, instead of taking off, he stopped and went back over the mark. I question our development with Stretch. We tried to turn him into a contested player when we needed a speedy outsider. Now all he does is second guess himself and fails to play on instinct.

It's a strange and frustrating feeling to absolutely dominate a team for a whole half of football and come away with a 7-8 goal drumming.

You know I like your posts mate. They're usually measured, thoughtful etc but this post offers no solutions. To me it seems a bit like blind faith, unless there are things about our game style that you think will start to win us games. I know we were playing the Premiers tonight, but our system is broken and our team is completely bereft of confidence. We need to try something new. I'd also love to know what Goodwin tried tonight that was anything more than an extremely aggressive press (the most aggressive for the year) and not playing our wingman as spares up forward and back.

Completely agree, but whenever they went inside 50 or there was a stoppage inside defensive 50, they looked like scoring and often did. But I was ropable in the first quarter, because I knew we'd lost the game by kicking 1.5. We simply didn't look like scoring in the second because we'd kicked so poorly in the first that it was as if we didn't believe we'd kick goals. Scoreboard pressure is one of our main failures the last fortnight. We simply haven't converted our dominance into legitmate scoreboard pressure. This has a lot to do with our dysfunctional forward line, but also our inaccuracy. We're failing to do the basics right. It's interesting because historically, our accuracy has often won us games. But if ever there was a time we needed to go back to doing the basics properly it's now. We constantly fumbled again, missed gettable shots and defensively often had no one out the back of the packs playing the sweeper role. Like last week, we probably conceded 8 to 10 goals because we lacked the discipline of having a sweeper back, which if you look at Richmond's backline, they continually had.

I think we're playing a game style (Richmond aping) that is not sustainable with our list. It requires pace and that's the major deficiency in our squad. All you do is short chip to draw out our press and then move the ball quickly over it. We must be the easiest team to coach against. It's under 14s stuff. We've gone backwards because our defensive set up is too easily countered by the above and our list isn't quick enough to play the offensive side of the game style. The fact we thought we'd try the really aggressive press (with our lack of pace) tonight against Richmond (packed full with pace) beggars belief and suggests we're not going to be tweaking the game style we've worked on all summer. I think we might be in for a bit more pain this year. Richmond are well coached and a decent side, but we're so low on confidence now - that was a massive factor tonight. We were rarely clean and they were almost always clean. I only hope we can capitalise on Essendon's shorter break next week on a fast Etihad deck and get some momentum going back the other way. In the meantime, I'd be dropping Vince. He's finished. He was at the end last year and shouldn't have had his contract renewed. The body language from our supposed leaders was very poor too. Gawn with his head down after they got 4 goals ahead. Jones gave that goal up to Cotchin with a soft handball. Vince's lazy handball in the last quarter. These are all little cues that show the rest of the side where the bar is set. And it's pretty low. Oliver, Jesse, Gawn, Hibberd and Lever were great though. Melksham at least found the goals this week, but as fir the rest of the team, there were nowhere near enough other contributors. A thoroughly disappointing night that does not bode well for our immediate future.

And bizarrely I have every confidence in him with ball in hand at the other end. He must play forward. FF, rotating CHF and second ruck.

I reckon they'd welcome another AA level player into their fold with open arms. Hibberd is a half backer, Jetta is a lock down small defender. They're hardly in the mould of generals, but a KPB intercept defender is.

Hunt for Wagner, Balic for Bugg, Stretch misses out? Vince, Hannan, Garlett and Fritsch to play?

I got sick of hearing this rhetoric under Roos, but I think it still unfortunately rings true: the difference between our best and worst footy is still far too wide. We can play scintillating footy; then we can play holding pattern footy which is serviceable; and then we can play as badly as any team in the competition (worse than anything Brisbane and Carlton can dish up). Of course, this happens with young teams, but it really does highlight the dearth of real onfield leadership that has been missing for almost my entire lifetime. I just hope our younger, emerging leaders don't learn too much about leadership from our older leaders, because they're not good enough.

Agreed. I still believe we have one of the strongest backlines in the league. That is individually. But as a unit, as players within our current defensive mechanism, we have one of the weakest. Oscar is a promising up and coming KPB. Hibberd is a gun. Lever is a gun. Jetta is a gun. Hunt is a gun, but needs to improve his disposal (no more than Houli at Richmond though). That's 5 really solid players. They are not a defence that should be leaking goals as we do. Our system is ridiculously flawed and I cannot understand why we've reverted to the aggressive press that killed us so much last year. The first two rounds saw us test varying levels of the press, but against Hawthorn in the rain, the aggressive press was absurd.

Is he out with a broken hand or is he out?

We play the anchor player a lot, but it often gets thrown out the window when the momentum goes against us. Obviously, this is a pretty common thing in footy. Players going away from structures when the going gets tough. The great teams stick to their structures, no matter what is happening with the momentum or the scoreboard. Having Vince and Lewis back there isn't great. Both are slow and neither are great leaders IMO. It's worth noting that I think we played a much deeper (less aggressive) press against Geelong and it enabled us to restrict scoring significantly in the second half. I don't think we should employ the high press anymore, at least not until we've got 2 KPFs in the team. I wonder if we've fallen into the higher press in recent weeks? Surely though, that would be a simple adjustment in quarter or at worst, at the breaks? I understand the attempt to model our game on Richmond (the smaller forward line, the ruck rover ruckman, forward press), but it's not playing to our strengths though. I'd consider going one-on-one a lot more often than we've tried. We've got a lot of guys who I'd usually back in to beat their man one-on-one. But I have a sneaking suspicion our current game plan may well work really well against Richmond, who basically get the ball forward at all costs and then press up to the next contest. Our aggressive press going back the other way, could well lock them in and at worst, catch them out in transition, as Hawthorn got us. I think like a lot of our defenders, he's playing reactionary football, rather than instinctive beat your man and then look to run and carry (vintage 2017). He came straight in against Richmond last year and looked to be the outlet off half back. He's done that a few times this year, but nowhere near as much as last year. This year he's looking to lock down a bit more and his run and carry is being stifled as a result. Likewise, Lever is being asked to lock down, rather than float within a deeper defensive set up. Good to see you've finally acknowledged Oscar, Steve. But I agree with the rest of your post. And I'd also add that Jetta, Hibberd and even Hunt have historically all been excellent one-on-one players. This is what I mean about not playing to our strengths. If we play that less aggressive press you've mentioned (which I agree with), it leaves more one-on-ones, but it also allows Lever to zone off his man. I commend ingenuity from a coach, in fact I cried out for it for years. And it must be said that Goodwin and his FD have certainly tried a host of bold moves from the Diamond Defence to running the half forwards off the back of the square, to playing with no wings etc. I really like the inventiveness, but when it's not working and we actually have really good defenders (three of which were in the 40 man AA squad), it's time to play a different system that will play to their strengths. I reckon it'd be interesting to see us employ the press we used against Geelong more often, which was far less aggressive than even 2017's press. But certainly, our current defensive system is far too all or nothing. It's kamikaze-like the way we race out and try to tackle the ball carrier and as we know, too often sides that have decent enough skills can pierce this zone. I'd argue it's the other way around. He played all last year as the running back, but also got back to the last line at times. This year they seem to be trying to play him deeper and demanding more accountability. The same goes for Lever. And as I've said here, it's not playing to either of their strengths.

Jones tagging did not lose us the game. His ability to shut down Mitchell early and our better efficiency of ball movement and conversion had us well on top at quarter time. We didn't take all our chances there, but the plan was clearly working at quarter time.

Good point. He probably comes in, but I'm not sure who for. ANB is a connector forward, so we need him. Harmes is on thin ice, but I'd try him off half back. Fritsch is worth another game. Salem is stringing some good patches together.

He doesn't lose his feet constantly like those two do though.

I'd go... OUT: Bugg, Melksham and Vince IN: Hannan, Hunt and Weideman Hannan for Bugg. Hunt for Vince. Weideman for Melksham. Weideman plays second ruck and rotates forward. Harmes on thin ice, but would play him off half back. I wouldn't be against dropping Frost either, but I think he'll keep his spot to try and combat speed (although for such a quick guy, he looked slow today). If Lewis stinks it up again, I'd drop him the following week (but won't happen).

To be fair, a few of us having been decrying his inclusion for a while now. He should be a certain delister for mine.

Harmes may not be the best answer to our lack of pace off half back, but I'd make him accountable to someone FCS. He ran around so ridiculously loose again today. Probably our biggest downhill skier. I'd play him back there and see if he can generate some rebound. His decision making does worry me back there though... Completely agree on the dropping of Lewis/Vince. They're not actually providing consistent leadership, so what's the point in having them both in the team? They're slow and they're both done. It's unfortunately, another moment where our decade-long poor drafting is coming back to haunt us. We don't have leaders that are experienced enough that can play anymore and it's resulting in seeing blokes who are finished, still getting games, simply because they've got experience.

Yep, that's about the only thing that's giving me solace, mate.

What an absolutely disgraceful performance. Harked back to 2014 or prior. That's definitely the first time a Goodwin side has given up. After quarter time, there was absolutely no system. I thought going into today that we'd generate enough inside 50s to win, even though I knew they'd play smart wet weather footy and we'd play (at times) dumb wet weather footy. Serious question though. Where was Gawn for most of the second quarter? This is where the tide completely turned IMO. When he was sitting on the bench. Gawn killed McEvoy in the first quarter and when Gawn went off earlyish in the second and Harmes was in the ruck, we got absolutely murdered around the stoppages. And after that we couldn't arrest the momentum. I now have serious questions about our game style after this debacle too and I'm lost as to why we so were determined to play our aggressive press in the wet weather. As we've done every time in the past two years, we continually fail to play to the weather conditions. If you're going to play the press, you play the deeper press in those conditions, not the overly aggressive form. And particularly against Hawthorn, who can pick their way out with good ball use. I thought getting it in long and quick with a greasy ball would be effective in those conditions though, but we fumbled around the stoppages (and inside defensive 50), failed to lay tackles inside forward 50 and made terrible decisions with the ball in hand (exhibit A - Tomas Bugg - an absolute blight on the footballing form). Defensively, our guys let the ball get over the back all day, we were disorganised at stoppages and just generally rattled for most of the day. And what really irks me is that we made Hawthorn look far, far better than they are. If there's any monkey we desperately need to get off the back, it's the monkey of losing to these muppets every season. And not just losing. We are regularly spanked. I went with the Hawthorn supporting wife (and she only ever goes to this game) and I was thoroughly embarrassed by my football club yet again. Also, why in the hell do three of our defenders continue to go all up at every contest? We're lucky if one defender stays down. It's been happening for 2 or 3 years now. And there's always an opposition player or two front and centre to gather the crumb. We're so predictable and must be so easy to coach against. Surely, our coaching team have picked up on this all up, no one down issue. So why do we continue to do it? Even when we're winning games we do it! Is Plapp our defensive coach now? I am seriously doubting his abilities if so. I know Lever is new into the mix but the whole synergy of the group is completely out. They look utterly lost at sea. And don't get me wrong here. Hawthorn's pressure was good, but when the game was on the line in the second and early part of the third terms, we missed ridiculously easy shots on goal and therefore failed to apply scoreboard pressure. And I said Bugg would cost us a game and this could well be a perfect example of it. If he kicks 4 straight instead of 4 points from regulation distance, we keep the pressure on and we're right in the game, if not ahead at three quarter time. Max Gawn missing again from 20m out directly in front is again unforgivable for an AFL footballer. That's not leadership and it certainly didn't help when we really needed a goal to stem the momentum that was against us. These are the type of goals that the leaders at Richmond kick nowadays (I can't believe I'm saying that). We have no leaders that step up in the clutch moments of big, important games. They go missing. Speaking of leaders, I thought Jones was outstanding on Mitchell early on and it was a great early move by our MC, but as the midfield pressure dropped, Mitchell got off the leash and the Hawthorn mids blocked well for him after that. And then Jones spent the rest of the match with his head down. But at least he was involved in the contest. Jordan Lewis was yet again thoroughly embarrassing. The guy is finished, save for the very odd cameo. Overall, one of the major issues is that their ball use was so much better than ours. They were cleaner in possession, kicked to the right places and then swarmed to those positions and we couldn't handle it. Fumbling, bumbling, throwing and slipping right over. I think we'll bounce back, but it was such an appalling effort that if we see anything else like it this year, I'll be on Goodwin's back. As far as I'm concerned, he's certainly on notice now for his complete inability to shift the momentum at any stage of the contest. He also got the game style completely wrong. He failed to take into account the conditions and did he make a single move after the opening bounce of the first quarter? Next week is going to be very interesting and anything less than a four quarter performance should not be tolerated. We may have just blown our season at 2-2 with a tricky month ahead. I now go into next week with no aspiration at all. This team (and club) does not deserve any confidence and owes us long suffering supporters a hell of a lot.

I did say Bugg would cost us a game. It was only a matter of time. VFA level footballer.

Exactly. And he's a beautiful kick. He'll be fine. A great acquisition. His acquisition will pay dividends.

Wow. Haha. We've slammed this journalist in this thread. And rightly so.

He's always the first tackler in the defensive press. A couple of his tackles were broken too easily in the first quarter last week, but after that he was one of our best pressers. It's obviously a vital role for our 18 man defence and it's interesting they've earmarked him for the role. I like his upside as a player. He's also playing a really important function that will eventually release Hunt to play in a higher, more attacking position. I wouldn't be surprised if this is also a position Brayshaw and Joel Smith will spend some time in. He's underrated at the moment and I'm looking forward to seeing how he goes against Hawthorn's zippy forward line.