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Fat Tony

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  1. Whoever is best available in this order (no exceptions): 1 Jack Trengove 2 Tom Scully 3 Dustin Martin 4 Anthony Morabito 5 John Butcher 6 Daniel Talia 7 Jake Melksham 8 Gary Rohan 9 Ben Cunnington 10 Kane Lucas 11 Aaron Black 12 Lewis Jetta 13 Andrew Moore 14 Koby Stevens 15 Ben Griffiths 16 Luke Tapscott 17 Jake Carlisle 18 Troy Taylor 19 Brad Sheppard
  2. A few points about the ruck: • Contested marking is becoming less and less important in the modern game. Players are instructed not to kick to contests and the kicking skills are so much better these days. • The best ruckmen in the game today are all good runners and most are reasonably good kicks. • In its endeavor to speed up the game, the AFL has made it harder for ruckmen to reach every ruck contest. • Using a third man up is a very effective way to negate any disadvantage in contests around the ground. • I don't think you will be able to afford to have two specialist ruckmen in the future. You will need at least one to also be able to play elsewhere. • IMO Spencer is incredibly overrated and should be delisted. He is not athletic or skilled enough to play AFL and is an ordinary VFL player at best. Better to rookie another big bloke and try again. • Vardy is not worth pick 11 and I doubt he will be one of the best 20 players to come from a very weak draft. He would have been lucky to have gone in the top 40 last year. For us to effectively give up Brock McLean for Vardy would probably be a blunder. • Martin is definitely worth persevering with in the ruck. Look at Mitch Clarke this year. He could develop into a similar player if given the same opportunity. • St Kilda has identified a good model for the ruck. Gardner and King were obtained for very little and are paid peanuts.
  3. I would like to give Scully a year in the back pocket. It is the easiest place to learn and become comfortable with the pace of AFL footy. I also don’t think Junior should be an automatic inclusion in the team next year. While he is probably still in our best side and still our best leader, I think we should be getting games into players like Maric and Dunn to give them the best chance to make it. Others which might also provide greater long-term benefit include Petterd, Bennell, Blease, Jetta and Strauss. Fat Tony’s Potential Side B Garland Warnock Scully HB Bruce Frawley Grimes C Morton Moloney Trengove HF Green Bate Sylvia F Jurrah Martin Wonaeamirri Fol Jamar Jones Davey Int Maric Dunn Rivers Watts
  4. IMO Wonaeamirri is not a definite starter (even if fit) and he will have to earn his spot. Also one of Miller, PJ or Martin has to play in the forward line to give us some structure. Otherwise Watts will get the best defender which he won’t be able to handle. (And I think Watts really needs to play in the AFL for the sake of his development.) For me its: Green, Sylvia, Miller, Bate, Jurrah, Watts and one (or two) of Wonaeamirri, Maric and Bleese depending on form. I would also like to see us try a structure whereby pretty much all the forwards push well up the ground except for Jurrah. I also think Dunn has a lot more potential than most posters give him credit for and should be in the mix for an early game given his end of season form and versatility (although probably not as a permanent forward).
  5. I don't think we should be taking a KPP at #11 unless we consider him the next best player (or thereabouts). I also question the desperate need for another KPF. While it appears as though we need one at the moment because we are struggling, last year we drafted two KPF with star potential (Watts and Jurrah) and Bate is still fairly young and is developing into a good third tall forward. Players that don’t excite me at #11 are Carlisle, Panos and Vardy. If we pick any of those that early I think BP will be partially selecting on a needs basis. I also think we will be very lucky if Butcher slips through to #11. At #18 I would again go for the next best player if it is clear cut (although if it is a close call I would have a slight bias for a KPP if we don’t take one at #11).
  6. Agree 100%.
  7. Jeff White was the All Australian ruckman 5 years ago. Idiot.
  8. I hope we told him that we would pay him more if he came via the PSD (i.e. 700K via the PSD or 600K if we have to compensate Port).
  9. I don't think it’s a big issue at all. As I understand it, retaining Junior only prevents us taking on another Rookie listed player. If he wants to play we should let him. I doubt he will be very highly paid. I am not saying he should be captain next year though. The problem is that we aren't really blessed with too many other alternatives.
  10. If Dangerfield is homesick we should throw the kitchen sink at him and try to nab him in the PSD. Even if we have to go back into debt. (Please don't hurt me.) Imagine our midfield with the addition of Scully, Trengrove and Dangerfield.
  11. I also don't have an issue with us having a lot of kids on the list given where we are at. Its just that history tells us that the chance of picking a good player is not that much higher with a late first round pick than a pick at the end of the draft. As such I think picks 5-40 are currently highly overvalued by recruiters/clubs and that, where possible, they should be traded away for young talented underperforming players or interstate players that want to come back to live in Melbourne. While Melbourne may not have got the same results if we had have picked up Farren Ray this year, I think he will be a good player for at least five more years. I think St Kilda got a steal for only losing 17 spots in the draft (31 to 48).
  12. We could get a pretty good player if we put pick 18 on the table given draft picks are worth 'gold' this year. We need to remember that the talent in the draft this year is pretty thin after the top few picks. I also think we can learn something from how well the recent Farren Ray, Scott Thompson and Darren Jolley trades have worked out for their respective clubs. This is the type of player I think we should be looking to target. (i.e. 20 to 25) I know this type of trade can work the other way (such as with Cameron Wood and Fergus Watts) but the chances of picking a top liner with pick 18 are pretty low anyway. Draft picks are still very much a lottery despite how much you hear that recruiting has improved. For example, look through the 2006 draft and you will see that around half the players are yet to really establish themselves as 'best 22' AFL players. While you might get a Joel Selwood at 7, you could easily get a Mitchell Thorp or a Ben Reid. I would take a 24 year Salopek over almost all of the players taken in the first round after Selwood at 7. And 2006 was considered to be a 'bumper' draft. 2006 Draft 1 Bryce Gibbs (Carlton) 2 Scott Gumbleton (Essendon) 3 Lachlan Hansen (Kangaroos) 4 Matthew Leuenberger (Brisbane) 5 Travis Boak (Port Adelaide) 6 Mitchell Thorp (Hawthorn) 7 Joel Selwood (Geelong) 8 Ben Reid (Collingwood) 9 David Armitage (St Kilda) 10 Nathan Brown (Collingwood) 11 Andrejs Everitt (Western Bulldogs) 12 James Frawley (Melbourne) 13 Jack Riewoldt (Richmond) 14 James Sellar (Adelaide) 15 Daniel O'Keefe (Sydney) 16 Mitchell Brown (West Coast)
  13. Fat Tony

    THE LIST

    When you finish bottom (and have the first pick in the PSD) the key is to entice the player to the club, not to satisfy the counterparty with a trade. Once you get the player to want to come, the first pick in the PSD can be used as a bargaining chip which can be exploited to deliver a lopsided trade (or you may be able to get them to come for nothing). The reason we failed with Robbie Warnock last year and Chris Judd the year before was because they did not see us as having a future. If Collingwood were in our position at the moment they would be chasing Deledio (amongst others) hard and saying they would pay a player in excess of market value if he came in the PSD. The worst thing that would happen under this strategy is another club would have to pay the player more.
  14. Fat Tony

    THE LIST

    With the Gold Coast coming AFL clubs are going to over value draft picks in the 2009 National Draft. As such, we should strongly consider trading picks 18 and 34 for young players at other clubs (rather than chancing a shallow draft). It is highly likely that good young players at top clubs like Geelong or St Kilda will be squeezed out due to the salary cap. The list of names I think we should target at includes: Travis Varcoe Ryan Gamble Daniel Wells Patrick Veszpremi Andrew Walker Brett Deledio Trent Cotchin Patrick Dangerfield Ben McEvoy David Armitage Moreover, if we finish the season in last place the club has a good chance to get a high quality player in the Pre-Season Draft. This opportunity was somewhat wasted last year (although Liam Jurrah looks exciting) and I doubt we will have the same opportunity again in 2010. To do this we need money, however, and I think we would have to pay close to 100% of the salary cap to land a big fish. The question is therefore: how do we get around the AFL’s demands that we pay only 92.5% of the salary cap and still get them to support us? A solution may be for us to attract another sponsor and call it something like the ‘Level Playing Field’ sponsor. They would only agree to back Melbourne if the sponsorship money is used to fill the salary cap breach (around $700,000). The sponsorship would suit a company that looks to offer its customers a ‘fair go’ (such as Costco). Imagine how much better we would look going into 2010 with picks 1 and 2 and Brett Deledio in the Pre-Season Draft.
  15. I have a few points to make: 1) The draft is expected to be fairly thin this year. 2) Apart from the top few picks in the draft the success rate for first round picks is not very high. 3) All of our players are significantly undervalued by the rest of the competition due to our low ladder position. 4) All the other teams will be overvaluing early draft picks this year even more than usual because of the new teams coming in. As such, I think the best strategy for us to take is to trade our second round pick for an up and coming player like a Brock McLean (or a Travis Varcoe). The only players I would look to trade are those who are contracted for next year that we don't think will end up making it. The players I would have on this list are Newton and Meeson. I may also consider trading Bate for the right price.
  16. Why does everyone on Demonland always get so concerned about the ruck? Ruckmen are going the way of the Dodo and the ruck has probably become the least important position on the ground in the AFL. Look at the stats which show the percentage of effective hit outs. Even the very best ruckmen are only effective around 30% of the time. Another indicator is the Brownlow medal. Once upon a time a ruckman would win the Brownlow medal every few years. Not anymore. Since 1993 the only Brownlow winner who played in the ruck was Adam Goodes. And he isn’t even really a ruckman. There are two key reasons why ruckman are becoming less important these days: 1) there are far fewer stoppages these days because umpires will pay holding the ball more often if it doesn’t come out; and 2) players are not kicking to contests very often (other than in the forward line). IMO our two best options for the ruck (Johnson and Martin) are playing this weekend anyway. Both have the athleticism and skill to be valuable contributors around the ground. They also provide the benefit of allowing us to play an extra midfielder. The impact of an extra midfielder is not as easy to see as the extra ruckman, but it surely makes a difference. Bailey should also continue with the tactic of using Dunn or Morton as the third man up at stoppages around the ground. This was very effective last week against Geelong and it should nullify any disadvantage that Johnson and Martin have against Dean Cox in the hit outs. None of Jamar, Meeson and Spenser will ever become like Cox or David Hill. I even doubt that any of them are athletic enough or skilled enough to become reasonable AFL players. The key reason why Cox is so good because he was born gifted, not because of any special development by the Eagles. He would be much the same player today if he were drafted by any other club. (Just the same as Jamar would still be slow and uncoordinated if was at West Coast.) I think the Richmond versus Brisbane (who only have Mitch Clark) game this weekend will be a good indicator as to the importance of the ruck. While the Tigers might win, I wouldn’t be betting on Patterson, Graham or Simmonds being the difference.
  17. B Garland Martin Whelan HB Bruce Rivers Bartram C Wheatley McLean Green HF Buckley Miller Davey F Bate Robertson Sylvia Fol Johnson Dunn McDonald Int Jones Morton Warnock Watts Emg Moloney Maric Wonaeamirri Commentary Garland – Ideally I would like to see Garland played as mostly as a third tall defender this season and I think he needs to develop physically if we want him to take the power forwards in the future. Garland also adds great flexibility to our defence as he is quick enough to run with small forwards. While many would like to see him tried up forward I would like to see him settle in defence to build his confidence at AFL level. Martin – I have been impressed with Martin’s athleticism, skill and courage to play in front. I would like to see him start on the opposition’s tallest forward, but as I have not picked Jamar in my 22 I think he also should be used to relieve Johnson in the ruck. While Martin may not have the size and leap of most ruckman, I think he probably has the strength to match them. Furthermore, he might be able to become a weapon around the ground as his running ability and athleticism is superior to that of most ruckmen. This may not be possible and will depend on his matchup at full back. Whelan – Still our best small defender and one of the key leaders of the backline. Preferably he should be played on the slower of the small forwards (with Bartram taking the other). Bruce – His endurance makes him ideal for a half back role as he is able to act as a stopper and a counter attacker. His games on Steve Johnson last year were both excellent and are evidence of how I would like him to play. He is well suited to a half back role as most teams are now pushing forwards up the ground into the midfield. Bruce would provide great versatility to the defence. Rivers – When fit Rivers is still our best key defender and I think he should generally be used on the opposition’s second best key forward and preferably not at full back. I have never subscribed to the theory that he is not big enough for the key forwards. Most supporters believe he is our best defender and he has always played on the key forwards. Moreover, I don’t think he is quick enough for many of the third or forth tallest forwards of most sides. (i.e. Brett Burton, Steve Johnson types) Bartram – While his disposal is definitely a liability I think his pace, accountability, discipline and tenacity are very important ingredients. He is probably our best defensive stopper and all AFL teams have a number of onballers/small forwards that we need to put the brakes on. Wheatley – One of our best users of the ball, Wheatley is ideally suited to the wing. Many other posters have excluded him from their teams but he was consistently one of our better players last year and our highest total kick getter. He is also well disciplined and accountable. McLean – One of our best ball winners and probably our first player tagged. He also has very good endurance and is good at getting boot to ball in the stoppages. Sometimes he needs to make decisions quicker when he has the ball as he too often gets run down from behind. Certainly future captaincy material, I would like McLean to show a bit more discipline on and off the field. Green – Green is a very courageous and significantly underrated player by opposition supporters. Green can be used all over the ground and I would use him by Bailey as a stop gap solution depending on the opposition. (i.e. There will be times when he should be used as a loose man in defence and times when he should play at full forward.) Buckley – Although his disposal and decision making let him down at times, I see great value in Buckley’s athleticism and ability to break lines. He needs to become more accountable and I would like him to lay more tackles given his speed (only 1.4 per match in 2008). I also think he should be used in the centre square more often, as I think acceleration and size are underrated qualities when considering in stoppage winning ability. (I think we would be better off with Buckley in the centre stoppages than either Jones or Moloney.) While I have picked him on the forward line I see Buckley playing really as an extra midfielder. Miller – One of our most improved players and best leaders, Miller needs to continue to improve. I was not really a Miller fan before 2008, but 26 goals was a reasonable return considering the limited opportunities and poor delivery we gave him. I think he played much better when Neitz retired and he felt was able to push closer to goal. He and Robertson should be played as our only forwards always staying in the attacking half. Davey – I see Davey’s best position either on the wing or as a forward pushing into the midfield. I would not like to see our best match winner sitting in the forward pocket starving for opportunities. Bate – While I think Bate is in our best 22 I think he needs to keep improving to stay there. While he should be versatile given his size and athleticism, I really only see him as a one position player (lead up forward). He is not really quick enough to play in the backline or as a defensive midfielder and not skilled enough or good enough at getting the ball to play as an offensive midfielder. I would actually like to see him slim down a bit and get a touch quicker. While many posters believe Bate has good ‘sticky’ hands I am not convinced of this. In 2008 he averaged only 6 marks a game and with only 6 contested marks for the season. While I think he would be best utilised in a lead up centre half forward role, Bate should be encouraged to get up the ground and push into the midfield and defence. This would help keep our forward line open. Robertson – Hopefully Robertson can recover as I think Robertson and Miller are easily our best key forward options. I would give them both lots of space in the forward 50, with Robertson played mostly out of the square and with Miller higher up the ground. Sylvia – I really see Sylvia’s best position being the forward pocket. He does not have the engine and is not really good enough at reading the play to become a permanent midfielder. Like Bate, he should be encouraged to push up the ground into the midfield and defence on occasion, although I would like him to play deeper than in most cases. Given he has had a good preseason so far I see this as a really important year for Sylvia Johnson – While many supporters lament at Johnson’s ruckwork, I am someone who believes this aspect of the game is increasingly irrelevant for the following reasons: 1) Stoppages around the ground now attract masses of players reducing the effectiveness of hit outs; 2) Very few goals are scored directly from the centre bounce. Even so, this can be somewhat combated by sending an extra man in defence at the centre bounce if need be; 3) With four boundary umpires the rucks are getting to the boundary throw in contest less, so I think athleticism in the ruck is now even more important than it was; 4) Moreover, using the third man up at stoppages has become quite popular (particularly with Bailey) which further decreases the need for a good tap ruckman. While it would be nice to have a ruckman like Sandilands or Cox, I think it is important for us to think outside the square and optimise what we have. Another potential option with the ruck would be to use Johnson for the centre bounces and then Martin around the ground (with Johnson going forward). We should experiment with various scenarios before going back to using Jamar, because I don’t think he is capable of taking us to a premiership. Dunn – I think Dunn showed a bit as a tagger through the middle of last year and I think it is worth persisting. He is tall, athletic with good endurance and well skilled yet many supporters do not think he has a future. While he does not win enough of the ball around the ground, we really should look at his performances on a net possession basis. One thing I think he should be instructed not to do is push the limits of the umpire too early in the game (as he tends to give away too many free kicks). McDonald – I would like to see McDonald also used in a run with role in the midfield. While many will say I am too negative with two defensive midfielders, I think that the good teams will kill us if we are not accountable at the stoppages. Jones – I think Jones is our next best midfielder and is definitely in our best 22. He wins a spot over Moloney because I think he is slightly cleaner and has better decision making skills. His role in the midfield rotation will depend on who he is on and he should be able to be used as a tagger if he replaces Dunn, McDonald or Bartram (if he is on a midfielder). I would generally prefer to see midfielders like McLean, McDonald, Dunn and Buckley over Jones or Moloney at the centre bounce. Morton – Cale should be used in the midfield rotation. I do not think he has the capability to do a defensive job at this stage in his career, so he really needs to be played as an attacking midfielder. I see him developing into a similar player as Cameron Bruce. Warnock – It was a difficult decision to leave him out of the back six. While he may be a better player than Martin at this stage, I think Martin has greater upside for us. (Although maybe he should be at full back and Martin used as a second ruckman.) I am firm that Rivers best position is generally on the second best tall forward and I think Garland should be played on the third tall at this stage of his career. It therefore means that only one of Martin or Warnock really fits into the back six. Of all our key defenders, I see Warnock as the most likely to be able to go to the forward line in 2009. As such he would be quite a versatile player to have on the bench. Also it would also be good to have the ability to give Rivers a rest from time to time given his recent injuries. Watts – While it is difficult to make a judgement on whether Watts is in our best 22 without seeing too much of him I would expect him to play AFL next year given his reported speed, endurance and skill. And after all, the number one pick generally comes in to AFL footy and makes some impact in the first year. I think he could fit into the midfield rotation (on a wing) or as a lead up forward. Given the lack of competition for key forward spots I think he will probably play more than not next year. Moloney –Moloney was pretty stiff to miss out on my best 22, but I think a midfield including McLean, Jones and Moloney might be a bit too slow. I don’t think he is quick enough to play in defence. Moreover, it could be argued that we would be better playing Moloney than Morton if we were in premiership contention. Generally I think he needs to be told to look to take the shorter option more often when kicking, particularly when under pressure and when going inside 50. Hopefully he can get fit and prove to be a good AFL footballer. Maric – While probably not in our best 22 yet I think he has great potential and I can see him developing into a Matty Lappin type with the ability to play all over the ground. Obviously he needs to get much bigger and stronger. Wonaeamirri – Wonaeamirri is another who would be close to being in our best side. I see him really only as a forward, although he has played in defence in the SANFL. I am not sure he would be quick enough/read the play well enough to play in defence in the AFL. I would say Sylvia and Bate are only just ahead of him at the moment. Jamar – Leaving out our best tap ruckman is probably my most controversial decision in my 22. I think the game has gone past players of his type. In 2008, which was probably his best year, he averaged only 8 disposals and 18 hit outs a game. I would like to see us experiment in the ruck. Newton – I am amazed how much support he gets from supporters given his lack of effort and poor concentration. I think we made a mistake in re-signing him as I cannot see him making it as an AFL footballer for two reasons: 1) he is too slow; 2) he is hopeless when the ball hits the ground. Key forwards these days are required to get their goals largely from marks on the lead and from roving off the deck. Contested marking is no longer a highly valuable commodity. Look how many goals Franklin and Fevola kicked by roving the ball off the deck last year. In my view, the future of key forwards at AFL level is Brett Burton/Russell Robertson types with the main criteria being: excellent pace, very good in the air for their size, good on the deck and high skill level. Obviously the taller they are the better, but height is certainly now much less important than pace. Petterd – I am not convinced Petterd will make it (but I hope I am proven wrong). His kicking/skill level is very overrated by Melbourne supporters and he is not exceptionally quick. I also think he lacks a bit of desperation when chasing/tackling. If he is going to make it I think it will be more likely in a midfield role, as he reads the game quite well. Frawley – The jury is still out on Frawley. He could become a very good key defender or another wasted first round pick. His kicking is just ordinary at AFL level and I doubt he will ever be a good AFL kick. He needs to develop his defensive game to a level where he can shut down the best forwards in the game. Unfortunately for him he we now have good depth in the key backs role, which is the only role I can see him making it. Bell – Bell will be 24 at the start of the year and has played 63 AFL games. Yet I don’t think he has developed the decision making skills required to be a good AFL footballer. I would initially give younger players preference at the selection table. I think he needs to be extremely fit to play at AFL level. Valenti – While I love his heart I am not convinced Valenti has enough ingredients to make it at AFL level. Specifically I think he is not big enough, not a good enough kick and too slow. While many watchers compare him to Sam Mitchell, which is quite a good comparison, I think Mitchell has a number of key advantages – 1) he is bigger/heavier; 2) he is a better kick on both sides of the body; 3) he is the best in the AFL at reading the play at stoppages. I have not seen enough of the others on our list to make comment but hopefully one or two can push for a senior spot over the preseason competition.
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