sue

Looks like his ex-captain will have to smash Lever into the goal post (accidentally of course) when we play them sinc ehe can't let go. http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-10-10/lever-has-chosen-money-over-success-tex

It surprises me that you know for a fact he could be better if he just pushed himself more. I'm not so sure. Sometimes what you get is what you get.

I'm staggered about what you read into what I say. Am I saying he is a star? No. And thus disagreeing with the FD? No again. I'm saying he is a middling player (look at his B&F results) who is hammered by some supporters because they can't get over their disappointment that he is not the Messiah. It's not me that needs to get a grip.

Glad to hear you say that bing. So if he stays we can expect you to not bag him until he shows he hasn't improved.

I did pick and choose. In case you didn't notice I chose GNF's report for the reasons I gave. Didn't you notice his report put the boot into Watts? ????????????????? I did note the second hand report about a storm player. I just didn't credit the hearsay which has been rife on this topic. GNF has a good track record of getting inside info by the standards around here. As for your first paragraph, can't you see that is a circular argument. Jack must have done X because he is being moved on. Doesn't prove X happened, there may be other reasons for him being moved on as you mention.

no. I presume he was a star? So what - are you just confirming what I said - too much expectation has led to an unreasonable reaction

There it is again. Watts not judged on his output (a middling player who occasionally turns it on) but on what he could have been. He suffers because he is a failed messiah.

As a 'defender' I have respect for GNF who seems to be well informed. This would be very bad by Watts if confirmed, though you have to ask why the club let him go - perhaps he promised to be good and wasn't. But GNF's report is the only report about this I have any faith in. All the 'attackers' have done to date is just speculate repeatedly until it becomes 'fact' to them.

That was already clear to those of us who don't look for every opportunity to tell us how hopeless Watts is.

at last some sense in this thread, though not mentioning the subjunctive is a bit off topic.

precisely - he finished somewhere in the middle when messiah acolytes expected him to be in the top 3 or better and can't get over the fact that he was just a naughty boy.

True but it has a big influence on a lot of posters here who are bitterly disappointed he wasn't the messiah and so pour more crap on him than is justified.

Were you abbrieviating shall be discussing or will be discussing?

Great reason to want him gone - he embarrasses you with your friends! I think you should stick to the reasons you've relied on earlier DrD- they at least make sense even to those who disagree with your conclusions.

Of course it's my opinion. Whose else's since I posted it? I maintain you could be solidly in the keep Watts camp and still say Jones did not respond properly when interviewed. He is never particularly good in the media, but knowing how to deal with curly questions is an important part of a Captain's role these days. Pro/anti Watts is a totally separate issue from Jones' interview technique.

Then he's not off-field Captain material.

Geez this thread is descending into madness. Now we can tell a person's political leanings by their position regarding Watts. Good grief. Dreamers come from both sides (as well as the waverers) in this discussion. But I have to admit to being emotional. Originally I thought trading Watts might be a good idea, but the arrogance of some of the posters here has made me change my mind. How's that for emotion over logic. I must be a communist.

We seem to enjoy commenting in the complete absence of any facts anyway. But entertaining us is just a tad less important than building a top team. Just a tad. Your characterization of the 2 sides is wrong, accidentally I presume. While there may be a few (or 0) who want to protect Watts at any cost, most pro-Wattsers just disagree with the Watts-removers as to what is best for the club.

Mugs like you and me need to remove the ants from our pants. If it is the best interests of the Club to not tell the public about what's happening in the Club, then I can live without knowing. Hang the honesty.

Well that is a good way to march up the ladder - not. Perhaps it would have been wiser to get rid of him quietly to minimise the kick up the bum he gets. Just being traded might not have been a big enough kick to make him perform. The public humilation might just be the extra kick he needs. Brilliant. But hey, we need to speak the truth at all times.... can't dodge questions becasue we are honourable men.

I know nothing about who is liable to be available at any pick, but I do know one thing - it's a gamble, you may get a star almost immediately, you may get one who is a star in a few years (and then leaves for another club) or you may draw a dud. So any deal which involves trading a player (unless we have an excess of players in that position) who has played AFL reasonably well for a #5 draft pick is a dangerous gamble. Better to trade picks and let other clubs do the gambling.

Then I give him a pass on one and a kick in the bum on the other. It really would be nice to know exactly what he said before I damn Jones forever.

So Watt's improvement (until injured) wasn't his responsibility?

That relies on a reading of what is meant by "Jack's doing" . Is it referring to his 'choice' or the fact that he is in this position? The original post on this didn't mention the word 'next' which you have interpolated to imply that all Jones was saying it's Watt's choice as to what happens next (to which I'd have no objection). But I haven't heard the interview.

Some truths don't need telling in public. How would you react if Viney came out and made some remark about how it was a good thing Jones wasn't left as sole Captain because he is not much of a leader (as many here have said happens ot be the 'truth')?