sue

Some truths don't need telling in public. How would you react if Viney came out and made some remark about how it was a good thing Jones wasn't left as sole Captain because he is not much of a leader (as many here have said happens ot be the 'truth')?

That is pretty nasty. Jones has just gone well down in my estimation. Still sensitive about his demotion to VC? (See, I can be equally nasty.)

What did he say? Is our club intent on self-destruction (again)?

I'm amused by the amateur psycologists on here telling us about how hard it is to let go of emotional investments. Seems to me those who have potted Watts for years also have an emotional investment in seeing him booted out. I shudder to think how they will react in the unlikely event he stays.

Not being conspiratorial, genuine questions. The first requires as answer. Perhaps you are saying yes he did (almost) redeem himself for the pre-season slackness, but then slipped into bad habits again. Trouble is we have evidence of the pre-season slackness but only speculation about later in the season, rehab sins etc. The question of 'shock' can be asked without assuming he was deliberately blind-sided by some sort of plot. Personally I suspect that the FD arrived at the decision a lot later than many believe (I should say 'suspect' since we know nothing).

Chewy raises some interesting points which I'd like to see answered by the remove Watts brigade. How did he get himself fit enough for Round 1 without doing things that would be a good example to others? Or do you say that good example can't override the original sin? And if the FD had been demanding more all year so aggresively, why was Watts shocked? He's not stupid and putting it down to his arrogance or similar seems a bit weak to me.

I was making ironic reference to the understanding that was developing between Watts and Hogan, not assuming that we will field a team of 17. (I'd rather TMac kick at goals than try to pass to anyone).

and kick to himself?

How do you know there is more than we know?

well we agree on something then.

Agree, we have no choice but to hope the FD got it right. But it is a huge gamble - yet another failed epoch will be a total disaster after so many years in the wilderness. That's why I worry that the risk is too large. You can afford a blunder or two if you are Geelong or the Swans. Presumably the FD sees the risk the other way around. I don't know how we are meant to show support for the club since I think only 1 poster has threatened not to renew their membership. Perhaps those who support the decision should buy double memberships....

Basing this discussion on specific incidents is silly. But I can't resist pointing out that Watts had the pressure of blokes like you looking over his shoulder. You also forget that he saved a goal at the other end so he seems to have got to the right position twice.

It would be a lot easier to agree with the 'trade Watts' brigade and the FD's decision if there weren't other clubs lining up for him. I was ambivalent originally (though critical of the tone of the discussion), but that really worries me. We better get decent trade value for him or the sadness that many of us feel will turn into something closer to rage.

Maybe not the decision per se, but it will reflect badly on our FD. The question will be asked why our coaches couldn't get that better performance out of what everyone agrees is a highly talented player.

precisely. Every club makes mistakes and one could make a list of their dud decisions to 'prove' that their interest in Watts is another dud decision. But the Geelongs and Swans etc must know something we don't since they keep winning flags.

You said it. None of us knows whether he has ever asked to be in the leadership group etc. But from your confessed ignorance of the matter you draw a conclusion to suit your view of Watts. You may be right, who knows, but it is typical of a lot of the post here.

That takes the cake. ProDee knows what Hogan thinks. I'm speechless (not quite).

I agree with the bolded bit. But Dangerfield even if 'put on the spot' didn't have to be so effusive in support of Watts. If Watts is possibly going to Geelong you have to presume they value Watts, warts and all. I don't mind people saying trading Watts for appropriate return is good for the club. It's the relentless harping on his weaknesses that pisses me off.

And do you think a player like Dangerfield would ignore those defects if he thought they outweighed Watt's other attributes?

OK, I'll make an exception. But unless Dangerfield is playing games, I do think those who play at a high level and are not dummies are likely to be much better informed opinions than me and other anonymous typists on here. But less of course than our FD which never makes mistakes (I hope). Of course I don't have much evidence about Dangerfield's dummy status. From the little I've read, he's not a dummy.

I was just pointing out that it is sad that attributes of "good kick and decision maker' don't seem to apply to others in the team.

Try reading what I said before responding. I said I'd take his opinion over people here. You also said if the Club said nothing the members would start sending in petitions etc. Seems that has happened anyway. Talking-down Watts in public does nothing for the club's culture, possiby the reverse.

Sorry chaps, I'd take the opinion of Dangerfield on a player's capability and usefulness over anyone on this forum. But I'd also take the opinion of the FD as well. Let's hope they aren't making a big mistake. Their handling of this has not inspired confidence. At least Dangefield is talking up Watt's trade value! As for Dr G's question above, 'What do you expect the club to say', I suggest 'as little as possible and a lot less than they have'.

Looks like Dangerfield is more positive about Watts: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-10-06/dangerfield-cats-would-welcome-watts

Agree, though you might add to your list of attributes "good kick and decision maker' Sad that.