Choko

Yeh. I am a lawyer, and although the tribunal is not bound by precedent, why wouldn't every player now be claiming provocation. If they believed Selwood's story, then how are the circumstances exceptional? Ridiculous.

I am. And your lecturer didn't say that.

Mate, no offence, but that isn't the law. Let's put it this way instead - I hope you're not a lawyer. And Jamar

You're a lawyer like I'm Jeff White

Quite right. Whilst we may not like what he said, it is something he is allowed to say on or off the footy field. It will not entitle the other player or person to hit him back. It may be provocation, but provocation merely diminishes the role of the person who used physical violence. And to say you have to have a kid to comment, in fact it sounds like in Herb's case having a kid has made you totally inappropriate to comment because you cannot possibly be objective about the issue. don't have to die to know you don't want to.

Yes, Headland was assuming it was not true that Selwood had done that with his kid. And incidentally, there is some suggestion he may have said she looks like a girl I ****ed. Is that also as bad? What if she was 18 and he said it? People get on forums and say all sorts of truthful things which are defamatory and more hurtful to league footballers and unpires. They certainly call them out in the crowd. People really need to get off their high horses.

I think the reason we spend so much time here talking about Headland's behaviour is because the fact of the matter is comments like that occur quite regularly in combat, over drinks, etc... and most people don't react that way, rightly or wrongly. I bet Josh Carr, who Des no doubt rates as a "good bloke" (because he's a team mate) has never said anything offensive to anyone! I have a work colleague who lives in the country and is bringing up an Aboriginal girl. This girl cops racial abuse at school. Her foster Mum said to me that she wants to tell her daughter to "punch the other kid", but "of course that's not going to solve anything". Same with Des. Revenge is a dish best served cold. And let me tell you, racism is different. It's recognised as different in our legal system, and it's casting dispersion based on inferiority over an entire people, as distinct from an isolated comment about a 6 year old. Yes, that sort of comment is awful. I think all of us would hope never to emulate it. I would hate for it to be said around me. But I do admit to seeing a Melbourne player line up an opponent and screaming in the seconds before impact "Smash him", and then "Stay down, you maggot" in the heat of battle - and I'm not even out there! I think the public shame is a big punishment for Selwood, and he will probably get fined too. But the media is paid to get ratings, and the longer this storm and hypocritical "standards" talk continues, the more successful the commentator.

I like CJ, but he was a liability last week and had to be dropped. Godders wasn't a liability.

Not the same as our injuries, and those teams have more strength than us anyway, and we will also win some games with our injuries. And look at the injuries those teams opponents had, the form of opponents, etc... But what I am actually saying is if those teams lose games with crippling injuries, surely that's a factor. And as far as Neale's post game comments, that's the vox pop version of what he thinks. The only real indication of how he feels about the performance was the body language, which said "I'm in pain and we're in trouble".

Is that what I said is it? Great contribution

I am so fed up with the utter sh*t some people here write. Is it not possible to have a spirited and intelligent debate about some of the issues facing the MFC? Are people seriously going to tell me that missing 8 players from our best side in a team sport which is so even is not at least a reason why we performed so poorly? We won more clearances and centre breaks than Geelong, so it wasn't hardness that was the problem. Sure, the skills of our second tier players and poor form of some of the seniors contributed to the loss. But to say injuries is no excuse is frightfully ignorant. Are people seriously so deluded that they think a red hot Geelong isn't going to be advantaged by having less key injuries than us? Whether ND should keep coaching, why don't we give it a few weeks to see how the season takes shape. We need to be 4 - 6 at the half way to make a really good shot at it. Let's see. But seriously, take Hall (Neitz) and Goodes (Robbo), plus Bolton (Brock), Leo Barry (Rivers) and a handful of others out of Sydney, how do you think they will travel? How about Kerr, Glass, Braun, Lynch, Hansen and others from WC. If you want to take a pot shot at the club, at least be fair and reasonable about it.

Not sure if they swapped, but Mark Riley certainly went from backline coach to forward line coach. And certainly some of the midfielders feel they are benefiting from a player who is so recently out of a successful AFL club coming to coach them.

Sydney wasn 't Sydney until they became Sydney.... If you know what I mean!

Just a mini little minor problem One that will make us more unpredictable. And you couldn't get more unpredictable than Benny Boy at FF.

Oh no, but that's the typical Melbourne mediocrity attitude, others will say. If you're happy to come second, then continue with all that stuff. It seems supporters fit broadly into 1 of 2 categories. Either they are positive andput things into context and are reserved in judgment, or they are cynical and look at everything the MFC dishes up as pathetic. I suppose they are both legitimate views of legitimate supporters, but I would much rather put some trust in those that know more about football!

Haha - they are mucking around - trying to be unpredictable. I've also noticed that everyone from the coach down has been complimenting Geelong on how amazing they were. Again, mind games, and I love it. I remember beating Geelong in 2005 at Kardinia without Neitz - an unconventional forward line - Robbo gave Scarlett a bath, no-one to match up on Yze, etc...

If he gets a crack at Yablett Jnr or Chapman, which I assume he will, it will be very interesting to see how it goes. IMO the jury is still out on his decision making and reaction time (seems to be led to the ball). But if what everyone is saying is true and he works hard on the track, then full credit to him and I hope he continues from strength to strength.

Yeh, we all come here armed with a wishlist, but how many sides have a CHF? How many have 2 ruckmen? I count 3 or 4 CHFs in the whole league. One of them isn't at WCE, and one isn't at Sydney. Who's Freo's CHF? They each have stand ins depending on match ups and which ground they are playing on. I agree we need a giant ruckman, but seriously, that's only the case since the anti-White centre circle came in and it became a tip off.

But you bagged him. Not him in that position.

Yeh, and people also forget that there are 2 teams out there, both reasonably even (maybe 5 - 10% between sides), and both trying to win.

Fair go. Yes, he makes mistakes. You remember those perfectly. What about his 3rd goal - was that a miskick? Was that in junk time? NO. And how many contested marks did other demons take? Miller's deficiencies fill this forum every time a whingeing supporter wants to come on and bag him. His strengths are that he bleeds red and blue (more than some others), has some physical presence and some size about him, will run and present all day and seems open to learning and development.

100%

Yeh, it's not dissimilar to how Des Headland is at Freo compared to when he had Voss, Lappin, etc at Brisbane. Or all of a sudden Nick Stevens when he doesn't have the Port midfield. There is no doubt Trav is the cream on the cake. I can accept that. What I don't think abny of us can accept is that he does not run, will not "take his turn", or to use MFC's 2007 catch cry, he "duds a teammate".

Without a doubt Bruce.

Yeh, I think it's pretty hard to defend him to be quite honest. Sure, he would look a lot better if he had big hitters to support him, but after 10 years of footy, he can look after himself. The issue with Trav is that he doesn't want to do the hard things - defensive running and taking a hit when it's his turn. That's why it's unacceptable. That's why for all his class he has been Melbourne's biggest disappointment. But to say he's a class player is to damn him with false praise, because it's all the more reason he is so disappointing. Courage and hard running are mental things more than physical. He isn't 100% committed to football, and it's all going to pass him by.