iv'a worn smith

We have it alright.....no question. We just don't have a "home" where we can express it, as one voice. The culture is underlying, always there. I have seen it, smelled it and felt it. We just need the right environment.

Not to mention the Geelong's list generally has bigger and stronger bodies. Why has it been for so long, that our conditioning and fitness team cannot get the physiques of those of those on our list to remotely look like AFL footballers. C Morton hopefully will beef up over the summer. We all know he needs to, but surely our lack of conditioning can't just be put down to inferior facilities. I agree though, the change of culture must come from within. To quote RDB, "if it is to be, it is up to me".

Agreed. And you only need to look at the state of those 2 clubs when he left. Nice bloke, but probably suited to the ARL culture than the AFL culture now.

Apologies, I didn't pick up this was being addressed on another related topic.

It would appear Primus are not going to renew there major sponsorship for 2009. News we did not need to hear right now. Lets hope Jimmy and the boys have something big planned in that area. God knows we need it.

If you read my post again, I said, "What you would expect". Friday night was deplorable and there was no joy there at all. But I would dispute that there does not appear to be any future in the current list. I for one am confident we will move forward. We have some exciting young kids and with the right drafting and possible trades, we will be OK. We also have the right coach and Footy manager. Contrast our deplorable performance with the flogging Richmond received, at a time when it was playing for a possible place in the 8. Then look at the defeats of Port and Brisbane, with far better lists than ours at this time, who did not play the top side. IMO, there is daylight between the Cats and the rest

Spot on. I still have a Scanlan card of Kenny.

What you would expect. "Deplorable effort", "long way to go". "If I were a Melbourne supporter, I would find it extremely difficult to take any positives out of Friday night's performance". "The current list is a long way behind anyone elses in the AFL." "Doesn't appear to be any future with this current playing list" So Caro, just out of interest, what about your beloved Tiges? They were once an endangered species, given the Miller affair, Terry Wallace's 2011 plan and their recruitng over the last few years, will they be endangered again?

After her comments on the Offsiders on ABC TV and on radio on Sunday, about the Dees, Caro might want to remind herself of the the current state of the Tiges. They had a lot to play for yesterday and didn't even give a purr, let alone a roar.

The point I am making is he was never played in that role often enough to find out. The rucks were rotated off the bench, with Neita/Holland taking the forward ruck work, with Schwarta doing it before them. Good followers kick goals. To my mind, he was never played in that role long enough to pass judgement.

100% agree.

No, Not bollocks at all. It is my opinion, you don't have to agree, but don't be insulting. White was either a tap ruckman, or played a kick behind the play. He rarely played as a floating tall forward. On the few occasions he did, he could snag one from outside 50. It wasn't all that long ago, he won a game with that magnificent last kick of the day. In my view, he was a player that had undoubted talent, which, IMO, was never harnessed correctly. Cheers

Precisely, because he was never given that role for long enough

MM, We must be of a similar vintage. I remember the days well. I used to run around with number 10 on my back as a kid. Anyone care to guess who that was? My number was painted on by my mother. We were too poor to afford plastic numbers. I hope this gets sorted. This should be a treasured possession of the MFC, expecially since Froggy is no longer with us.

Couldn't agree more. It is something the Rev (and Bails) should have tried a long time ago, especially after the "circle" came in to play. Undoubtedly, Whitey has/had considerable talent, but he should have been used as a goal kicking follower, when he was in his prime. Maybe we could then have kept Snake or Jolly.

HT, I suspect you're right, but you can only wonder if a number of those players would have gone under the knife so soon, if we had been a chance to play finals. Certainly it is hypothetical, but it is also a pointless exercise to compare this year's injury list with last year. Circumstances, player form and the list overall, is markedly different.

HT, I think you've got a superb interlect (sic) Hey, do we all barrack for the same team or what. Sometimes I reckon I would be in less danger of verbal abuse, If I was ensconsed in the middle of the Pies cheer squad. Cheers everybody. After all, its POETS day

Well said WYL

This whole debate about draft picks and list management is interesting. As a side light first, I am amazed at what seem to be venom directed at fellow supporters. Aren't we all on the same side? Sure, agree to disagree, but let's not get nasty. In relation to list management and draft picks and given that the draft, as of next year, will change to accommodate the "new" interstate teams, it might be worth pondering this. Sure, the crooks at Carlton are finally reaping the benefit of early draft picks, as are that former - not too long ago - basket case of the RFC. Hawthorn are there abouts as well, of course. But consider this. When did the reigning premiers seriously bottom out? For that matter, when did Essendon, Collingwood, Bullies and Kangas need to resort to priority draft picks and concessions to remain at least competitve. Depsite the financial advantage the interstate clubs have, they still have to manage their lists and draft good players. They seem to do that quite well. In my opinion, a lot has to be said for the staff off the field that manage the list. Our former recuiting manager, Craig Cameron was praised by many, criticised by few, but given the dissatisfaction expressed on this forum about our current crop of players, it would not be hard to form the opinion that Cameron was an abject failure. Perhaps it's just as well that the feral Tigers have now copped him. Our list will improve, of that I am certain, with the right managment off the field. I think we now have the right people in place and Bails will prove to be a master at mentoring young men. Cheers

You may be well be right. But in the meantime we need to stick together

When things are going bad, it becomes contagious. That is our major issue at the moment. He certainly is no superstar, but I continue to support him

Maybe the Caro show on 9?

OK Jimmy, you win. Cameron Bruce is no good. He never was and he never will be.

Get off his back Jimmy and let's just support the boys eh? As I said, our stocks a very low at the moment and we serve nobody any purpose by bagging every player who gets on our goat for some reason or another. Bring back Paul Prymke or the Girg for that. As for thinking of a game later than 3 years ago, the team, as a whole has not done much since then.

No argument from me on that. But I have heard his name mentioned from "certain" sources. Don't forget, this will be the last year where the draft won't be diminished. The only other currency exisitng clubs will have is players who have currency.